What speakers for $2,000?

[johnt]

US prices are generally very good for Home Theater stuff. I think it's because it's highly commoditized in that market (lots of volume and competition), and because US taxes are actually quite low. The sheer size of the market also helps tremendously (economies of scale).

 

The only places where you can get HT stuff as inexpensively are in oil-rich gulf nations (since they don't need tax revenue from goods sold). That might change soon though, as oil prices are dropping (reducing their revenue from the sale of that commodity).

 

This is agreeable. But generally I've noticed there are different levels, and the US gets some really poor, cheapo, crappy products that are competing for the few dollars that people are going to shell out. If you want something good, you still have to pay quite a bit for it.

[johnt]

They basically allow your receiver to get louder without distortion. They amplify the line signal before the receiver amplifies it a second time. Not really necessary unless you're going for a super duper HT system.

 

Digging a little deeper... why does the signal need to be amplified multiple times? Is it for speakers that are harder to drive?

[Stagea]

This is agreeable. But generally I've noticed there are different levels, and the US gets some really poor, cheapo, crappy products that are competing for the few dollars that people are going to shell out. If you want something good, you still have to pay quite a bit for it.

This is very true. Mass market products are the ones that benefit the most in terms of cost reduction (since every corner appliance or department store would have them). 

 

Digging a little deeper... why does the signal need to be amplified multiple times? Is it for speakers that are harder to drive?

 

They are normally used to drive Power Amplifiers. Power amps normally have a lower gain, so they need a larger signal input to be usable. A secondary purpose is being a volume control (since power amps normally do not have a gain adjustment, and it's too small of a range if they do).

 

Receivers and Integrated Amplifiers typically have the capacity for a larger overall gain (gain does not equate to power), which means that no additional device is needed for amplification.

[KaminKevCrew]

Digging a little deeper... why does the signal need to be amplified multiple times? Is it for speakers that are harder to drive?

The main reason is that power amplifiers have no way to change the volume, so a preamp adds that capability.

[Stagea]

The main reason is that power amplifiers have no way to change the volume, so a preamp adds that capability.

 

True. Separates were built because high voltages and currents can cause interference on the weak signals at the line level. Line level sources like the output of a DAC are typically low voltage and high impedance, making them less capable of rejecting interference. A separate preamp isolates the line level devices (like the source selector and the volume control) from a big source of noise (the separate power amplifier that handles the heavy work of driving the speakers).

 

Generally, integrated is a better choice at lower price points. The savings from sharing the same enclosure, power supply, etc. can be used for nicer components on lower cost gear (which will have a bigger performance impact for them). At higher price points when the parts and designs are already very robust, the improvement from mechanical/electrical/magnetic isolation can be justifiable. Separates at lower price points are more for show than actual performance.

[xtroria]

Is Cambridge audio a European thing? AFAIK, they are barely known, if at all, in the US.

Yep, along with focal and NAD. All three of them are popular

[KaminKevCrew]

Yep, along with focal and NAD. All three of them are popular

There's a really cool speaker shop in Bellingham that sells focal gear.

[Stagea]

There's a really cool speaker shop in Bellingham that sells focal gear.

 

Many HiFi gear from Canada and the US are very good too. 

 

Famous Canadian Hifi brands: Classe, Anthem, EMM Labs, Bryston, NAD, Paradigm, PSB, Totem, Coincident, Simaudio, Axiom, Hansen, Gershman, Tetra, Verity, etc. 

 

You probably are already aware of the American brands.

[KaminKevCrew]

Many HiFi gear from Canada and the US are very good too.

Famous Canadian Hifi brands: Classe, Anthem, EMM Labs, Bryston, NAD, Paradigm, PSB, Totem, Coincident, Simaudio, Axiom, Hansen, Gershman, Tetra, Verity, etc.

You probably are already aware of the American brands.

The main ones I'm aware of (not including the Japanese brands, of which I like to think I know all) are Marantz, McIntosh, Carver (do they even make receivers still?) Aaaand that's all I can think of for the moment...

[Stagea]

The main ones I'm aware of (not including the Japanese brands, of which I like to think I know all) are Marantz, McIntosh, Carver (do they even make receivers still?) Aaaand that's all I can think of for the moment...

There are tons but Mark Levinson and Krell are probably the best known. Marantz has been Japanese for sometime now.

Are you also into mobile entertainment(in-car audio/video)?

[KaminKevCrew]

There are tons but Mark Levinson and Krell are probably the best known. Marantz has been Japanese for sometime now.

Are you also into mobile entertainment(in-car audio/video)?

Somewhat, but I'd really like to be more knowledgeable in the subject than I am. I want to know so much more about audio than I do. I'm always open to learning new stuff!

[Stagea]

Somewhat, but I'd really like to be more knowledgeable in the subject than I am. I want to know so much more about audio than I do. I'm always open to learning new stuff!

 

Very cool. In-Car Entertainment is very similar to Home Theater, but takes more effort to get right due to the inherent issues in a car (noise intrusion, interference, acoustics, speaker placement, listening position, space, etc.). Home Theater systems have also gotten a lot easier to install nowadays with automatic speaker phase detection, time alignment, equalization and bass management (you still do these things manually in most car installs). Fully active systems are also far more common in cars than in homes to allow for proper time alignment.

[KaminKevCrew]

Very cool. In-Car Entertainment is very similar to Home Theater, but takes more effort to get right due to the inherent issues in a car (noise intrusion, interference, acoustics, speaker placement, listening position, space, etc.). Home Theater systems have also gotten a lot easier to install nowadays with automatic speaker phase detection, time alignment, equalization and bass management (you still do these things manually in most car installs). Fully active systems are also far more common in cars than in homes to allow for proper time alignment.

Yeah. Most people I know around here just put a bunch of subs in the trunk and call it good. I'd rather have good, balanced sound in a car, which does indeed seem rather difficult with all of those issues...

[Stagea]

Yeah. Most people I know around here just put a bunch of subs in the trunk and call it good. I'd rather have good, balanced sound in a car, which does indeed seem rather difficult with all of those issues...

 

Once you know the basics, it can be a breeze.

 

The tools are the same ones that are used to calibrate Theater and Sound Reinforcement systems (a spectrum analyzer, an SPL meter and a measuring tape for audio calibration, and a multimeter and an oscilloscope for gain structure optimization). Without these tools, a good pair of trained ears, common sense and listening time could be sufficient. 

 

For video calibration, it's exactly the same as calibrating a home theater display.

[KaminKevCrew]

Once you know the basics, it can be a breeze.

The tools are the same ones that are used to calibrate Theater and Sound Reinforcement systems (a spectrum analyzer, an SPL meter and a measuring tape for audio calibration, and a multimeter and an oscilloscope for gain structure optimization). Without these tools, a good pair of trained ears, common sense and listening time could be sufficient.

Well, I do have a tape measure, oscilloscope and a multimeter.

[Stagea]

Well, I do have a tape measure, oscilloscope and a multimeter.

 

You're already ahead of the rest.

[KaminKevCrew]

You're already ahead of the rest.

Minus the fact that I have no idea whatsoever about how to use it... [emoji14]

[johnt]

Okay guys! In case you didn't see it or I didn't mention it here, I chose to go with the MTM-210's from Power Sound Audio. I plan on auditioning them while checking out a few other, fancier, speakers from local stores.

 

Now the plot thickens: the juice box.

 

This has been a point of contention for me. I created another thread asking for general recommendations. I received a massive wide range from $25 headphone amplifiers to $2,700 digital direct amplifiers. Unfortunately, nothing really checked all of the boxes for me. Or rather some were just way too expensive (sorry @Stagea, that DDA is too much for me )

 

Currently I am using an Onkyo CR-325. It came packaged with a passive Bose 2.1 system I purchased back in 2010ish. It is a fantastic little receiver. It has two RCA inputs, and subwoofer pre-out, and a CD player. I would like my next amp to include:

• $200 - $250
• Optical input
• Subwoofer pre-out (or LR pre outs and I can just route each channel to a separate subwoofer)
• Binding posts for use with banana plugs instead of springs
• Optional: additional RCA input

I was looking at the XDA-2, but again, I couldn't check off all the boxes. Plus it seems to be selling for around $300 these days.

 

What are some amps you guys can recommend primarily in that price range?

[johnt]

Minus the fact that I have no idea whatsoever about how to use it... [emoji14]

 

Why do you have an oscilloscope? 

[KaminKevCrew]

Why do you have an oscilloscope?

My step dad who passed away a few years ago was a very interesting man...

[Stagea]

 

 

Currently I am using an Onkyo CR-325. It came packaged with a passive Bose 2.1 system I purchased back in 2010ish. It is a fantastic little receiver. It has two RCA inputs, and subwoofer pre-out, and a CD player. I would like my next amp to include:

• $200 - $250
• Optical input
• Subwoofer pre-out (or LR pre outs and I can just route each channel to a separate subwoofer)
• Binding posts for use with banana plugs instead of springs
• Optional: additional RCA input

I was looking at the XDA-2, but again, I couldn't check off all the boxes. Plus it seems to be selling for around $300 these days.

 

What are some amps you guys can recommend primarily in that price range?

 

Isn't the XDA-2 just a DAC/Preamp? You'd need a power amp if you're gonna go this route.

 

I suggest going for an AV Receiver.

[johnt]

Isn't the XDA-2 just a DAC/Preamp? You'd need a power amp if you're gonna go this route.

 

I suggest going for an AV Receiver.

 

I agree with you. Unfortunately AVRs don't extend down to the $250 range from retail stores   I really liked that Pioneer you recommended http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SC-1323-K-7-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B00D4MQ0UU But not even my HT receiver is that fancy.

 

What do you think of these little guys?

 

mini-x a-100 http://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/mini-x-100

 

fusion flex http://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/fusion-flex

 

I can use the outputs to connect to each subwoofer. No optical input, but the RCA will work just fine.

[Stagea]

I agree with you. Unfortunately AVRs don't extend down to the $250 range from retail stores I really liked that Pioneer you recommended http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SC-1323-K-7-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B00D4MQ0UU But not even my HT receiver is that fancy.

What do you think of these little guys?

mini-x a-100 http://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/mini-x-100

fusion flex http://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/fusion-flex

I can use the outputs to connect to each subwoofer. No optical input, but the RCA will work just fine.

Entry level AVRs do, especially last year's models. As for new models, the VSX-524 would get under that range. You'd likely get more undistorted output from your speakers with a high passed AVR than a full range integrated, if you're after keeping up with your subwoofer output. The transformer section should be okay if you'd only be driving two channels; most Pioneers bench above the rating with only 2 channels loaded.

I'm not a fan of Emotiva, though their power amps do often offer good current capacity for the price.

[johnt]

Entry level AVRs do, especially last year's models. As for new models, the VSX-524 would get under that range. You'd likely get more undistorted output from your speakers with a high passed AVR than a full range integrated, if you're after keeping up with your subwoofer output. The transformer section should be okay if you'd only be driving two channels; most Pioneers bench above the rating with only 2 channels loaded.

I'm not a fan of Emotiva, though their power amps do often offer good current capacity for the price.

 

It's creeping me out how right you are. You're like my voice of reason.

 

I don't see why the VSX-524 needs to be so large. Why can't they offer something with similar features, maybe fewer video inputs that nobody uses, but with a smaller footprint and height for the same price.

[Ivan]

PLEASE go to www.reddit.com/r/audiophile for some help. They would love to help you, especially given the budget you have.

 

Honestly I'd suggest you get a pair of studio monitors. With $2,000 I'd suggest that you get something from high quality manufacturers like Event, Focal, Adam, Genelec, etc.

 

Edit: Didn't see you already made your choice. Well all the best and enjoy