What speakers for $2,000?

[BoredErica]

It looks like a korean custom (I forget which one specifically) anyway, good luck, you have to get into one of the group buys for them, which are generally run on Korean forums, so you either need a really good translator, or you need to learn Korean. Often, they will only sell to people that are actually in Korea. 

 

Also, you can buy one after the group buys, but you will generally end up paying over $1,000 for them... Sometimes even over $3,000, depending on the board.

Probably not. It says "Filco" on the side. So some TKL Filco, I think Majestouch. The keycaps aren't stock though.

 

It makes no sense for a Korean custom to have Filco branding (or for anybody to grab an aftermarket case, if there even are ones with Filco branding).

 

 

I'm finding the keyboard to be the most interesting thing in the thread. 

[KaminKevCrew]

Probably not. It says "Filco" on the side. So some TKL Filco, I think Majestouch. The keycaps aren't stock though.

It makes no sense for a Korean custom to have Filco branding (or for anybody to grab an aftermarket case, if there even are ones with Filco branding).

I'm finding the keyboard to be the most interesting thing in the thread.

Yeah, you do seem to be correct! On my phone (which has a more accurately calibrated display than my monitor) it looks like blue plastic. I was looking on my computer earlier, and it looked like anodized aluminum.

That's the board I was thinking of. It's an LZ-S Korean custom. I want one!!! (but it's okay, I think I'll be pretty happy with my pok3r... Which I've spent close to $400 on, and I don't even have the board yet...)

[Stagea]

What....

How does it get that black???

 

There are many ways to make ambient light rejecting screens. I believe the Black Diamond uses micro-louvers, kind of like the ones on monitor privacy films/filters. The louvers block off the light coming from the sides.

[spwath]

There are many ways to make ambient light rejecting screens. I believe the Black Diamond uses micro-louvers, kind of like the ones on monitor privacy films/filters. The louvers block off the light coming from the sides.

There has to be a downside.

Probably price.

[Stagea]

There has to be a downside.

Probably price.

Price and a narrower viewing/projecting angle range. The image gets darker as you shift off-center.

[BoredErica]

Yeah, you do seem to be correct! On my phone (which has a more accurately calibrated display than my monitor) it looks like blue plastic. I was looking on my computer earlier, and it looked like anodized aluminum. lg3oW3U.jpg

That's the board I was thinking of. It's an LZ-S Korean custom. I want one!!! (but it's okay, I think I'll be pretty happy with my pok3r... Which I've spent close to $400 on, and I don't even have the board yet...)

It's been months since I looked at keyboards. The angle of incline looks to be higher than the Kmac 2. At least in the one I saw, it looked possible to not install this thing that goes under the case to prop up the end of the keyboard, as the case itself is flat.

 

Koreans have an angled keyboard fetish or something. There was probably a reason why I went for the Kmac 2 instead, I forgot what.

[johnt]

Congrats John! This is turning to be a full system rebuild.

 

I agree. The best compromise would likely be a good high gain screen to reduce light reflection from nearby walls and to offer a lot of intensity (to give the resulting image some punch). The narrower sweet spot from such a screen would somewhat coincide with the narrow sweet spot for his choice of speakers.

 

Ambient light rejecting screens can also work, especially if the back wall is far (or can be covered with drapes or darkened).

 

Thanks man! 

 

I was not expecting to spend so much on speakers at this time. There is no way I can buy a projector at this time. I'm not really sure I have any space left in my living room... but I can always rearrange stuff (except windows). My wife and I watched a video on Youtube where this guy was reviewing a Black Diamond screen and a pretty beefy Epson projector. I was all in. But the reviewer made the mistake of saying it "only" cost around $7,000. And while, yes, I agree that $7,000 is not very much, it didn't sit well with my wife. I'm kind of in the dog house with all the PSA speakers. So I guess one thing at a time. It will come though!  Maybe we can keep this thread live for the next six months

 

 

 

What....

How does it get that black???

 

It's black magic!

 

 

 

It looks like a korean custom (I forget which one specifically) anyway, good luck, you have to get into one of the group buys for them, which are generally run on Korean forums, so you either need a really good translator, or you need to learn Korean. Often, they will only sell to people that are actually in Korea. 

 

Also, you can buy one after the group buys, but you will generally end up paying over $1,000 for them... Sometimes even over $3,000, depending on the board.

 

$3,000 for a keyboard? Are you kidding me?  :huh: Is it made out of panda?

 

 

 

Probably not. It says "Filco" on the side. So some TKL Filco, I think Majestouch. The keycaps aren't stock though.

 

It makes no sense for a Korean custom to have Filco branding (or for anybody to grab an aftermarket case, if there even are ones with Filco branding).

 

 

I'm finding the keyboard to be the most interesting thing in the thread. 

 

One day, when both your boys descend, you will understand 

 

 

 

There has to be a downside.

Probably price.

 

Yup, it's probably a couple thousand bucks... as with all modern, "high quality" products these days

[johnt]

Brief updates, the surrounds should all be here by the end of the week.

 

The subwoofers are absolutely scary. I watched Mad Max: Fury Road last weekend and my face looked like this for two hours... 

 

One of the corners of my house had a very small hairline crack in the drywall from the Napa earthquake that happened nearby last year... and i seriously think the subs made it bigger during Mad Max (either that or the enormous weight of my roof, I like to think both)

 

I think my whole house would have been pressurized if the windows were shut. I can't believe people own stronger subwoofers than mine and place them in a nearly sealed basement. Crazy asses!

[Stagea]

Thanks man! 

 

I was not expecting to spend so much on speakers at this time. There is no way I can buy a projector at this time. I'm not really sure I have any space left in my living room... but I can always rearrange stuff (except windows). My wife and I watched a video on Youtube where this guy was reviewing a Black Diamond screen and a pretty beefy Epson projector. I was all in. But the reviewer made the mistake of saying it "only" cost around $7,000. And while, yes, I agree that $7,000 is not very much, it didn't sit well with my wife. I'm kind of in the dog house with all the PSA speakers. So I guess one thing at a time. It will come though!  Maybe we can keep this thread live for the next six months

The speakers will last a long time. They'd survive to see your new projector, screen and AV receiver. 

 

Microlite is another maker of great home theater screens. Their screens reject ambient light while keeping a broad sweet spot. Cost is a lot lower than Black Diamond too (especially in bigger sizes), though contrast may not be as exceptional.

 

For budget options, I've seen great results with Elite Screens CineGrey 5D. Their 200" screen costs just ~2k (smaller ones start at $637).

 

This ends up at just $13 per inch of screen diagonal:

http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-HD28DSE-1080p-Theater-Projector/dp/B014ULWTVC

http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens-ezFrame-135-inch-Diagonal/dp/B00DQNX36G

 

The thread will stay alive as long as there is something to talk about.   :lol:

[johnt]

 

The speakers will last a long time. They'd survive to see your new projector, screen and AV receiver. 

 

Microlite is another maker of great home theater screens. Their screens reject ambient light while keeping a broad sweet spot. Cost is a lot lower than Black Diamond too (especially in bigger sizes), though contrast may not be as exceptional.

 

For budget options, I've seen great results with Elite Screens CineGrey 5D. Their 200" screen costs just ~2k (smaller ones start at $637).

 

-video-

 

This ends up at just $13 per inch of screen diagonal:

http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-HD28DSE-1080p-Theater-Projector/dp/B014ULWTVC

http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens-ezFrame-135-inch-Diagonal/dp/B00DQNX36G

 

The thread will stay alive as long as there is something to talk about.   :lol:

 

 

Thanks for all the suggestions. I want to learn a lot about projectors and screens before purchasing. The speakers were a learning process... starting with Klipsch and then moving onto PSA. Very expensive! But on the bright side, I have a great PSA home theater and a pretty bad ass Klipsch Reference ii 7 speakers surround sound connected to my PC. Can't complain  But the wife can. And trying to sell brand name speakers near retail price is almost impossible. Oh well!

 

I sure hope these speakers last a long time! I own this 2.1 Klipsch ifi that I purchased in 2004ish and just retired this year. They weren't used all too frequently, however. These PSAs are becoming a nightly tradition. Loud volumes are seriously addicting. I was hoping to keep these PSAs for at least 20 years or so... but man with how loud I've been playing them each night... I don't know

 

It's going to be a little tricky because currently I'm using a 40-inch 1080p display. While yes it's not huge, the pixel density is far better than larger screens. I'm a bit concerned about video quality when looking at a 100+ screen paired with a 1080p projector. It might be worth waiting for 4k to become a little more....... accepted/affordable. I'm not sure how long of a life 4k will have compared to 1080p. Some company is already working on 8k televisions starting around $15,000. Seriously that isn't very much for technology (if it follows history) that's approximately 5 to 7 years away.

[Stagea]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I want to learn a lot about projectors and screens before purchasing. The speakers were a learning process... starting with Klipsch and then moving onto PSA. Very expensive! But on the bright side, I have a great PSA home theater and a pretty bad ass Klipsch Reference ii 7 speakers surround sound connected to my PC. Can't complain  But the wife can. And trying to sell brand name speakers near retail price is almost impossible. Oh well!

You're welcome. CE stuff generally have poor residuals (because manufacturers make the old ones less desirable so quickly). They are like PC parts.

 

And while speakers generally don't get refreshed every year (unlike TVs, AV Receivers, etc.), second hand buyers are often wary of abused units (these are electromechanical devices after all).

 

 

I sure hope these speakers last a long time! I own this 2.1 Klipsch ifi that I purchased in 2004ish and just retired this year. They weren't used all too frequently, however. These PSAs are becoming a nightly tradition. Loud volumes are seriously addicting. I was hoping to keep these PSAs for at least 20 years or so... but man with how loud I've been playing them each night... I don't know

They are designed to play at higher intensity levels; they should be able to take it as long as your amp does not get driven to clipping.

 

It's going to be a little tricky because currently I'm using a 40-inch 1080p display. While yes it's not huge, the pixel density is far better than larger screens. I'm a bit concerned about video quality when looking at a 100+ screen paired with a 1080p projector. It might be worth waiting for 4k to become a little more....... accepted/affordable. I'm not sure how long of a life 4k will have compared to 1080p. Some company is already working on 8k televisions starting around $15,000. Seriously that isn't very much for technology (if it follows history) that's approximately 5 to 7 years away.

You wouldn't be viewing the projector screen from so close to get bothered, generally. 4K projectors are great (they are very sharp), but most are really left running high bitrate 1080p sources (most videophiles run Bluray discs at this point). 

 

Watch your TV from 4 feet away. If you don't get bothered by the pixels at that distance, you won't get bothered by 1080p on a 135" screen from 13 feet away. The projector will probably look nicer as the screen door effect would likely be less visible. The relief from not squinting to see the details make a huge difference. Movies become far more involving, while concerts look very natural (it's like the stage is in front of you). 

 

Measure the distance from your sitting position to your screen location. THX recommends a 40 degree horizontal viewing angle to recreate the cinematic experience (while remaining comfortable to watch) with a 16:9 picture. A 100" diagonal screen will only get that from 10 feet away (and a 40" screen will do that from 4 feet away). For 16:9 screens, divide the diagonal size in inches by 10 to get the recommended viewing distance in feet. For wider aspect images (typical of movies), THX actually recommends an even wider 50 degree horizontal viewing angle.

 

4K/UHD even asks for larger screens so that the viewer can appreciate the detail in the material. Here's what a typical 4K theater may deliver in terms of viewing angles:

 

 

 

[johnt]

THEY ARE HERE!

 

It was a little dark for pictures last night, but it's never too dark for a sound test.

 

Center

Interesting. Significant improvement over the Klipsch, especially at lower volumes with dialog. I would have expected for dialog to come a little ways further by now (in terms of mixing). It's shocking how low it still is. It was one of my biggest complaints over 15 years ago... and it's still a problem today. I'm still not sure why dialog doesn't have its own channel that is independent of a center effects channel. It's evident that a center channel sharing both dialog and effects is asking one speaker to do way too much. Mixing must be a lot harder than I realize. And of course it highly depends on the source.

 

Surrounds

Expensive. Very, very expensive. I'm not sure if anybody needs a one inch tweeter with a ten inch driver for surrounds. They are well matched with the mains however, even though the surrounds are 94 dB sensitivity. YPAO set them about 3.5 to 4 dB higher than the mains and center (which are all 98 dB sensitivity). Probably a coincidence. They disperse the noise very nicely from behind.

 

There's no question about it to me. This is movie theater grade stuff. Yes I have some complaints. But damn it is worth every penny!

 

YPAO

YPAO did a great job setting all of the info (distance, level, etc). None of the distances were actually correct, but I didn't care really. It sounded a lot better than un-calibrated. BUT! The automated EQ was pure garbage. Everything sounded very muffled. I would have never kept the PSA speakers if I had heard it with PEQ enabled. It may have produced a more scientifically flatter curve (I say may because I don't have a mic to test), but the listening test rejected it.

[Stagea]

 

YPAO

YPAO did a great job setting all of the info (distance, level, etc). None of the distances were actually correct, but I didn't care really. It sounded a lot better than un-calibrated. BUT! The automated EQ was pure garbage. Everything sounded very muffled. I would have never kept the PSA speakers if I had heard it with PEQ enabled. It may have produced a more scientifically flatter curve (I say may because I don't have a mic to test), but the listening test rejected it.

 

Did you use Natural, Flat or Front for your YPAO equalization?

 

Natural = Target Yamaha's House Curve

Flat = Target a Flat Frequency Response

Front = Target the Frequency Response of the L/R Mains

 

I too use a manual EQ for my Yamaha AVR (it works better for me), though the "Flat" and "Front" target curves aren't too bad in my case (take note that most Yamahas default to "Natural", which applies a target house curve to the sound). The manual EQ has too few bands that it's easily tunable by ear anyway. 

 

Lower AVRs may lack the measurement resolution and logic to make the best judgement in equalization, though it is a good start for people with little to no experience with these things. The reason for the gap between auto EQ and manual EQ is that low resolution measurements may not show narrow peaks that are very audible, or the built-in logic may not choose to touch it if it will compromise neighboring frequencies (and the target curves may not work for everyone too). 

 

With the right equalization my Yamaha + Polk pairing can sound pretty close to my higher grade setups at moderate volumes. Being a low cost system, I am very happy with the value that I got from that set.

 

You have a very nice set of speakers now. Your system can only get better with your next acquisitions.