Sony PXW-FS7 4K video camera

[Dredgy]

If I am going the route of the larger URSA with the 4.6K sensor, adding the price of the V or Gold mount batteries and chargers, the memory cards, etc. I think a PXW-FS7 will be slightly cheaper and compact to carry around.

Likely. Here the FS7 is considerably more expensive than an URSA 4K (which is about the same as a preordered URSA Mini 4.6.nhut once you factor in that the URSA needs a good tripod and a slider is just not happening, it adds a lot to the cost.

[ShadowCaptain]

SNIP

 

Red Epic Dragon

 

/thread

[ALwin]

Likely. Here the FS7 is considerably more expensive than an URSA 4K (which is about the same as a preordered URSA Mini 4.6.nhut once you factor in that the URSA needs a good tripod and a slider is just not happening, it adds a lot to the cost.

 

Same where I live, the FS7 is about 2000 more expensive than the URSA 4K, but about the same price as the URSA 4.6K, especially when factoring the price of 2x XQD cards for the FS7 and batteries + 2x CFast cards for the URSA.

 

I already got a heavy duty tripod and video head, external preamps, studio monitoring headsets, field monitors, etc.  I simply don't have any video cameras after I sold or gave what I had away.  All I have left are 4 photo cameras with some video capability.

 

Nope, I could never afford a RED.

[ALwin]

So a few updates about the FS7

• Each 64GB XQD memory card can record up to 15 minutes of 4K footage at XAVC
• ProRes and RAW can be recorded, using an external accessory
• Tripod plate can interfere with the shoulder mount
• Attaching a lav mic receiver to the top cold shoe mount interferes with the top handle grip
• Menu system is very detailed

The 4K test footage that was recorded, after importing to Final Cut X and exporting after some minor edits... cannot be played back on both of my friends' 4K televisions they have at their homes.     Must be a codec or firmware issue.

 

And we don't have a 4K monitor at our office :lol:, the highest resolution screen we have is the 27" non 5K iMac.  Watching 4K videos on it we have a small issue with stuttering.

[ShadowCaptain]

• Each 64GB XQD memory card can record up to 15 minutes of 4K footage at XAVC

 

Ouch right in the wallet

[ALwin]

Ouch right in the wallet

 

Well I'm about to place an order for an Ursa Mini that records 4K with ProRes and 2x 128GB CFast 2.0 cards... dunno how many minutes I would get per card.

[Dredgy]

Well I'm about to place an order for an Ursa Mini that records 4K with ProRes and 2x 128GB CFast 2.0 cards... dunno how many minutes I would get per card.

 

 

On my URSA about 13 minutes. Can't recall if that's ProRes XQ or HQ.

[ALwin]

On my URSA about 13 minutes. Can't recall if that's ProRes XQ or HQ.

 

Can you tell me a few things about your experience with the Ursa.

• How many hours could you get on 1080p 50/60fps with ProRes 422 on 128GB of storage?
• What capacity battery are you using and how many hours do you get on a single fully charged battery?

[Dredgy]

Can you tell me a few things about your experience with the Ursa.

• How many hours could you get on 1080p 50/60fps with ProRes 422 on 128GB of storage?

I'd say about one hour and a half hours, but I'm really just guessing. I'm about to head to work now, will check at the end of the day. I have recorded 1.5 hours in 1080p 30, and the card wasnt close to full that I recall, but I'm not sure what codec. At higher frame rates, you need to be in either bright daylight or have constant studio lights - mine have mild strobing/flicker at 60fps.

• What capacity battery are you using and how many hours do you get on a single fully charged battery?

I'm in a studio setup and the camera is essentially always plugged in. I have a Power-U 190W battery and from reviews I've heard that it will power an URSA for 1.5 hours, but I couldn't tell you, as the most I've used it on battery is 30 seconds. It wouldn't be representative of the mini anyway, since this has to power three big, bright screens.

A problem with the URSA though is the battery indicator simply shows whether or not you are on battery power, it does not show percentage of batter left.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, the only thing I've done with it is some simple testing since funds have kinda dried up to build my home studio. The pitfalls of travelling so much.

[ALwin]

snip

 

Thanks, cool to know.

 

I'll most likely be using the camera 80% plugged into an outlet and 20% on battery.  If I can get batteries that will give me 2-3 hours max per full charge it would be great.  V mount batteries do not come cheap, and the chargers are even worse.

 

As for memory cards, ain't cheap at all, and I am going to be 90% 1080p and 10% 4K at most. I am thinking of getting the Transcend or Lexar ones, Sandisk is overpriced.

[Dredgy]

As for memory cards, ain't cheap at all, and I am going to be 90% 1080p and 10% 4K at most. I am thinking of getting the Transcend or Lexar ones, Sandisk is overpriced.

Lexar or Transcend are where it's at. They perform much better than the Sandisk from what I've heard. I only have one Lexar 128Gb atm, and it cost nearly $1200AUD.

Where are you? I'm in Australia and they just aren't affordable and seem to be getting more expensive. I'm in the States next month so planned to pick up a few then, but the Aussie dollar has plummeted a fair bit since I made the plan, so it might not be viable now. The track dolly I wanted to import has now exceeded the tax free threshold, so I have to adjust my plans for that and maybe have one made

I've kind of put everything on the back burner for the next couple of months, but I'm eager to get into it.

Power-U make a 300Wh battery for a reasonable price that will definitely get you 2 hours on a full size URSA, so should get 3 on the URSA mini I would think.

[ALwin]

snio

 

I live in Switzerland, however I have a couple of friends in the US who can send me the cards

Right now my distributor has given me a quote for 2x 100WH batteries that cost about $400 each and a charger that costs $500.  Of course none of us knows the power consumption of the Mini yet, so I told them I'd like to hold off on choosing the battery before I hear from anyone who receives the Mini first.  I believe Black Magic is releasing the 4.6K version a month before the 4K version.

 

What sort of track dolly are you looking for, perhaps I can suggest alternative models.  I understand about the AUD, there was a big story with Adobe Master Collection prices there compared to the US a few years back.

[Dredgy]

@ALwin I was looking at the Varizoom solo slider dolly and am now looking at getting one of these, but I will have to make an adapter for my tripod feet. 

 

In regards to URSA recording times on a 128GB card, I've checked at most codecs.

 

At 60FPS 1080p, recording time is: 40min (Prores 422 HQ) - 60min (Prores 422) - 85min (Prores 422LT) -190min (Proress 422 Proxy) 

At 50FPS 1080p, recording time is: 47min (Prores 422 HQ) - 70min (Prores 422) - 100min (Prores 422LT) - 230min (Proress 422 Proxy) 

[ALwin]

@ALwin I was looking at the Varizoom solo slider dolly and am now looking at getting one of these, but I will have to make an adapter for my tripod feet. 

 

In regards to URSA recording times on a 128GB card, I've checked at most codecs.

 

At 60FPS 1080p, recording time is: 40min (Prores 422 HQ) - 60min (Prores 422) - 85min (Prores 422LT) -190min (Proress 422 Proxy) 

At 50FPS 1080p, recording time is: 47min (Prores 422 HQ) - 70min (Prores 422) - 100min (Prores 422LT) - 230min (Proress 422 Proxy) 

 

Wonderful, those are more than enough.  Thank you.

 

I'll look into some slider dolly models.

[ShadowCaptain]

Well I'm about to place an order for an Ursa Mini that records 4K with ProRes and 2x 128GB CFast 2.0 cards... dunno how many minutes I would get per card.

 

Can you not byass this and get an SDI recorder with SSDs like a shogun or something?

[ALwin]

Can you not byass this and get an SDI recorder with SSDs like a shogun or something?

 

I could but the SDI out on the Ursa is max 2160@60p.  If I were going for an external recorder I would simply get a photo camera that can record 4K.

 

But I also have an option to get something like this: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/648471422/rig-friendly-c-box-system-use-any-ssd-on-your-cfas

[ShadowCaptain]

I could but the SDI out on the Ursa is max 2160@60p.  If I were going for an external recorder I would simply get a photo camera that can record 4K.

 

But I also have an option to get something like this: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/648471422/rig-friendly-c-box-system-use-any-ssd-on-your-cfas

 

Ah was not aware of the limitations

 

thats a great idea, just so much easier to work with SSDs than bloody CFast I hate it! (and its cheaper)

[ALwin]

@ALwin I was looking at the Varizoom solo slider dolly and am now looking at getting one of these, but I will have to make an adapter for my tripod feet. 

 

Have you considered looking on ebay for some of these stuff?

 

Could get something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Proaim-12ft-Video-Camera-Black-Track-Slider-for-Dolly-Tripod-Stand-Crane-Jib-/400992806134?hash=item5d5d08a4f6

 

Or http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heavy-Duty-camera-dolly-rubber-track-curved-flexi-flexible-rail-36-feet-1-25-DM-/351206542668?hash=item51c58a8d4c

 

and finding a good tripod stand with wheels that would go on these tracks.  Or get some wheels and make your own support.

[ALwin]

Today Sony announced the new PXW-FS5 which sits below the FS7 and slightly above the older FS700.

 

Sony PXW-FS5 (est. price $6,700.00 body only)

http://nofilmschool.com/2015/09/sony-pxw-fs5-4k-cinema-camera-e-mount-electronic-variable-nd

 

On the Sony Pro website the FS7 is listed close to $10,000.00 body only yet distributors sell them for about $7,000.00 to $8,000.00.  So I guess we will see actual prices of the FS5 closer to $4,000.00 give or take a few hundred.

 

While I generally prefer using Sony video cameras, I am still going to go with the Black Magic Ursa mini. Mainly because the BMD UM 4K offers

• 3840x2160p @ 50/60fps
• 1080p @ 50/60fps and up to 120fps in windowed mode (which is not a big deal for me)
• Internal 10-bit recording

 

The FS5 is

• 3840x2160p up to 30fps
• 1080p @ 50/60fps and faster frame rates used buffered mode recording, like the FS700
• Internal 8-bit recording for 4K and 10-bit for 1080p

The only thing I like about the FS5 would be that it uses SD memory cards, however this may also be the reason why frame rates are limited.

 

I am guessing that it will cost me about the same to kit up and buy either the FS5 or BMD UM 4K.

[ALwin]

Ok after hearing some bad moire and noise issues about the Ursa Mini, decided to save myself the headache of worrying whether I will get a good version, will there be firmware updates to fix these issues, etc.

 

I am taking the big plunge and getting myself a Sony PXW-FS7.  I have a slight budgeting issue as I recently made some photo camera and audio accessory purchases, so the FS7 should be in my hands by mid November.

 

I can't wait!!!!!    :D

[Dredgy]

I am taking the big plunge and getting myself a Sony PXW-FS7.  I have a slight budgeting issue as I recently made some photo camera and audio accessory purchases, so the FS7 should be in my hands by mid November.

 

I can't wait!!!!!    :D

Is a big investment, good luck with it

[ALwin]

Is a big investment, good luck with it

 

Thank you, it is indeed a big investment.  One of my worries was hearing that Ursa Mini deliveries could be delayed as there is a long line of pre-orders before me.  My own local distributor said I may not get one in November-December period when I need it most.

 

And for the past few years now I have been looking to get a proper video camera for myself after having sold or given away my old video equipment and forcing myself to work with DSLR setups.  I kept waiting for the "ideal" camera and last year I was tempted to get the FS700, I'm glad I waited but too bad it doesn't come cheap.

[Williamchan87]

@ALwin The URSA mini is released on November 18

 

@ShadowCaptain The Sony A7r2 is very good at video especially when you use the crop/APS-C mode for video, since the A7r2 records by not using some of the pixels available/skipping pixels. so when you use APS-C mode therefore has less skipped pixel= better pics then FF mode. 

[ALwin]

My new baby has arrived!

 

After learning that the Ursa Mini 4K/4.6K were going to suffer long delays in delivery, I decided to go ahead and make a leap in buying a Sony PXW-FS7 for myself.  This way I can also share and work on the same platform with my colleagues who use Sony cameras.

 

Well here are a few photos.

 

 

It comes with a USB style port for connecting the wireless dongle (included in the box), I need to download the app onto my phone.

 

Built-in GPS

 

At the moment I am using a Fotodiox Nikon to Sony adapter, with a Sigma 35 f/1.4 Art lens.  At f/1.4 this lens is very bright for this camera, I may have to use the built-in 1/4 ND filter indoors.

 

The FS7 uses Sony XQD 2.0 memory cards, at 4K 50p recording each 64GB card holds up to 15 minutes of footage at XAVC-I.  I will have to order more cards.

 

 

 

 

Later on in the year I will be ordering a Zacuto Recoil shoulder rig for the FS7 along with a DJI Ronin 3-Axis motorised gimbal.

 

My first impressions:

• Slow menu navigation, I've been using DSLR type of menu navigation and haven't used Sony menu navigation for some time.  Also there are many menu options and settings, I will have to explore it in detail again.
• The extension arm for the grip remote, even when fully extended feels a bit short.
• Built-in shoulder mount design is nearly useless.  Hence my need for something like the Zacuto Recoil.
• Need to put some padding on my RODE NTG2 mic, as the thickness of the mic is just short of the diameter of the FS7's mic mount.
• Viewfinder loupe feels a bit too long.
• The camera feels super light, for it's size.

[ShadowCaptain]

oh my

I hate you