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An Open Letter to Linus - Op-Amps

h264
By h264
in Audio
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Linus's Phoebus Review at 3m:51s

 

 

Dear Linus,

 

In an effort to increase the accuracy of your review videos, as you got Slick to robotically pledge to us in that now infamous apology video, I'm writing this short note to you to try to educate both you AND the rest of the community about what EXACTLY an Op-Amp is.

 

First things first, a definition.  An Op-Amp is short for operational-amplifier, which as it's name implies, *BASICALLY* amplifies signals.  It's original use was in old analog computers (old like the vacuum tube days) in order to perform calculations without more modern circuits.  In modern times, it's one of the more important pieces of a modern solid-state amplifier.  However, it is not a NECESSARY component of these devices as amplification can be implemented with only MOSFETs and JFETs as seen in amps like the Schiit Magni, mind you with a considerable increase in power requirements.

 

It's very important to state that operational amplifiers, ideally, do NOT "color" sound unless they are poorly designed or poorly implemented in an analog amplifier circuit.  Which is important in the notion that swapping them out WILL probably create a different result from the original op-amp, not because the new op-amp is "better" or because this is an "upgrade", but because an amplifier's circuit is usually designed around the properties of its Op-Amps.  Other non-ideal deficiencies can include high slew rates, high output impedances, and limited gain, all of which must be dealt with by the TOTALITY of the circuitry used to create the amplifier.  Fancy parts like gold caps and high-output op-amps are only as good as the board they are printed on and the specific parts they are connected to (and how they are connected and grounded!).  I think it suffices to say swapping them is a fool's errand, something that I think Asus may have finally recognized not in principal but in the fact nobody really cared about that feature (including you).

 

While I understand your point some people might like to screw with their own stuff as a hobby -- and I'm all for silly hobbies -- I think those people aren't really buying soundcards.  Just saying.

 

Sincerely,

 

h264

 

p.s:

 

Here's a very nice presentation on the basics, if you have time to watch:

 

 

The Op-Amp article on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op-amp

 

NwavGuy's Op-Amp explanation:

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/08/op-amps-myths-facts.html

 

 

"Pardon my French but this is just about the most ignorant blanket statement I've ever read. And though this is the internet, I'm not even exaggerating."

 

 

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Posted

Thanks for the post, but all I said is it will change the characteristics of the output, which your own post seems to agree with...

 

... Which is important in the notion that swapping them out WILL probably create a different result from the original op-amp... 

 

Here's another wikipedia article: Op-amp swapping is the process of replacing an operational amplifier in audio equipment with a different one, in an attempt to improve performance or change the perceived sound quality.

 

Whether it's desirable or not to change the sound by swapping out opamps is completely up to the individual.

 

I've seen evidence that while it's not that common, your notion that the enthusiasts who are into swapping op-amps aren't buying sound cards is not entirely correct. Here are some articles and threads discussing op amp swapping on sound cards:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/477933/op-amp-for-asus-xonar-ds/15

http://jimmyauw.com/2013/05/30/opamp-testing-on-asus-xonar-essence-one/

http://vc-junk.blogspot.ca/2010/11/asus-xonar-essence-stx-swap-op-amp.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/216694-choosing-op-amps-essence-stx-i-v-stage.html

(etc)

 

All of that said, I've never bothered to do it with my own gear even though I have a couple of socketed components. I leave them as-is partly for the same reason that I don't pull the SATA controller off of a motherboard to solder on a new one.

 

So please don't take this post as me disagreeing with you. I don't. I think changing them is a waste of time, money and effort. I don't change them, but that doesn't mean I'm going to gloss over it as a product feature either.

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Posted

I thought there was going to be a big fight but no...

there never really is, around here the people are generally good enough to either drop it, accept the facts or come to a unilateral agreement that means no one has to admit they were wrong. :)

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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lol almost to mature for me 

If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough it will be believed.

-Adolf Hitler 

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Thanks for the post, but all I said is it will change the characteristics of the output, which your own post seems to agree with...

 

THAT i would agree with, but you said specifically in your video that "what Op-Amps basically do is they can color the sound".  Saying "Changing Op-Amps colors the sound", I would accept, but you create the notion they perform a function in an amplifier they in fact, do not.  I know you think I'm pulling hairs, but that's a pretty important concept.

 

I've seen evidence that while it's not that common, your notion that the enthusiasts who are into swapping op-amps aren't buying sound cards is not entirely correct. Here are some articles and threads discussing op amp swapping on sound cards:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/477933/op-amp-for-asus-xonar-ds/15

 

>I would just get a better card or DAC. "Op amp rolling" is rarely useful (even though many people think it is, they most often just experience placebo effects), and in the particular case of the Xonar DS, the performance is already bottlenecked by the WM8776 codec chip with the stock op amp.

 

Sure is a different board than in 2009, that's for sure.  I would agree, with only 2 pages in the thread and THIS post, it's not all that popular.

 

 

 

>LME 49720 surprisingly good on LPF section, although running a bit hot – sound improves when it’s hot actually rather then when it’s cool. I think no oscillation there – need to confirm with my scope later. And the final stage is still my favorite, AD825.

 

 

Yeah, this is more like the sort of thing you'd be swapping op-amps in.  The Essence One.  He's even measuring it too, how prudent.

 

 

While I understand your point some people might like to screw with their own stuff as a hobby -- and I'm all for silly hobbies -- I think those people aren't really buying soundcards.  Just saying.

 

See, my point was, these guys aren't really buying the soundcard, they're buying the op-amps to PUT INTO the soundcard.  Yeah, I get it, people will screw with just about anything given the chance, and post it on the Internet.

 

 

So please don't take this post as me disagreeing with you. I don't. I think changing them is a waste of time, money and effort. I don't change them, but that doesn't mean I'm going to gloss over it as a product feature either.

 

Oh I don't.  I'm entirely OK with both your personal preferences about swapping op-amps and your business's need to cover Asus's feature list.  All of that is perfectly fine.  Please just keep in mind op-amps aren't meant to "color" sound.  they are used in an amplifier to increase the signal voltage, hopefully with less distortion.  That's all I really hope to convey.

 

 

I thought there was going to be a big fight but no...

 

Now that's another one of those fool's errands: fighting with Linus on his own forum board :rolleyes:.

"Pardon my French but this is just about the most ignorant blanket statement I've ever read. And though this is the internet, I'm not even exaggerating."

 

 

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Now that's another one of those fool's errands: fighting with Linus on his own forum board :rolleyes:.

And banned in 3....2....1....

 

XD

Console optimisations and how they will effect you | The difference between AMD cores and Intel cores | Memory Bus size and how it effects your VRAM usage |
How much vram do you actually need? | APUs and the future of processing | Projects: SO - here

Intel i7 5820l @ with Corsair H110 | 32GB DDR4 RAM @ 1600Mhz | XFX Radeon R9 290 @ 1.2Ghz | Corsair 600Q | Corsair TX650 | Probably too much corsair but meh should have had a Corsair SSD and RAM | 1.3TB HDD Space | Sennheiser HD598 | Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro | Blue Snowball

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And banned in 3....2....1....

 

XD

It's also not good for business to publically silence anyone who questions you..... ;)

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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It's also not good for business to publically silence anyone who questions you..... ;)

Trueeeeeeeeee

Console optimisations and how they will effect you | The difference between AMD cores and Intel cores | Memory Bus size and how it effects your VRAM usage |
How much vram do you actually need? | APUs and the future of processing | Projects: SO - here

Intel i7 5820l @ with Corsair H110 | 32GB DDR4 RAM @ 1600Mhz | XFX Radeon R9 290 @ 1.2Ghz | Corsair 600Q | Corsair TX650 | Probably too much corsair but meh should have had a Corsair SSD and RAM | 1.3TB HDD Space | Sennheiser HD598 | Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro | Blue Snowball

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It's also not good for business to publically silence anyone who questions you..... ;)

Actually it worked for Stalin.

Console optimisations and how they will effect you | The difference between AMD cores and Intel cores | Memory Bus size and how it effects your VRAM usage |
How much vram do you actually need? | APUs and the future of processing | Projects: SO - here

Intel i7 5820l @ with Corsair H110 | 32GB DDR4 RAM @ 1600Mhz | XFX Radeon R9 290 @ 1.2Ghz | Corsair 600Q | Corsair TX650 | Probably too much corsair but meh should have had a Corsair SSD and RAM | 1.3TB HDD Space | Sennheiser HD598 | Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro | Blue Snowball

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And banned in 3....2....1....

 

XD

 

All I want is THIS Linus back.  I miss watching him come out of the box, too...

 

"Pardon my French but this is just about the most ignorant blanket statement I've ever read. And though this is the internet, I'm not even exaggerating."

 

 

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Well duly noted on the whole "what OPAMPS do". I assumed the amplification was implied and focused on why you might want to change them, but shouldn't have :)

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  • 1 month later...
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That's one small step for a Linus, one giant leap for audio knowledge everywhere.

"Pardon my French but this is just about the most ignorant blanket statement I've ever read. And though this is the internet, I'm not even exaggerating."

 

 

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