AAC vs Vorbis vs FLAC blind test (can you hear the difference)

[mr moose]

So scanning through this thread quickly no more than 1 or 2 people guessed right.

precisely.

[Hikaru12]

So scanning through this thread quickly no more than 1 or 2 people guessed right.

 

So far Vorbis is the winner?

[Yuval]

I had a though time guessing which one is better from 2/3, Vorbis was clearly lesser quality, actually guessed 320 KPBS was better, may be due to inexperience, re-listening they sound pretty much the same with abit better bass on FLAC (used africa, headphones Shure SRH-840, onboard sound card no DAC)

 

I will try later once i have my DT990 250 Ohms and Fiio E10

[MG2R]

@mr moose I'm leaving this open, as it still actually has a purpose.

 

Just tried out the boombox samples. Didn't hear a difference, at all. Mind you, I'm just using a Vengeance 2000 wireless headset, so not the best audio quality by any stretch of the imagination.

[bradscoolio]

So scanning through this thread quickly no more than 1 or 2 people guessed right.

 

On the Africa track using a Fiio e10 and se215's my guess was:

1 = mp3

2 = flac

3 = vorbis

Which I now now was wrong it was actually 

1 - Vorbis - 224Kbps

2 - AAC - VBR 320Kbps

3 - FLAC

But It's not that I wasn't able to hear changes in the tracks, linking them to a familiar sound signature is the tricky part. I guessed vorbis because the snare drums rattle was a little noisier, in terms of just how much is would rattle emulating a sort of static sound. I think now that's actually because it was flac and could reproduce those finer details.

 

Basing it off of my incorrect conclusion that's why I had chosen the other tracks the way they did as my guess for 2 (flac) was sounding sharper to me, not as much of a static rattle, but the fight between actual mp3 and vorbis was so close it was exceedingly difficult to discern. 

 

I guess I can hear the difference, knowing what the difference is supposed to sound like is the challenge

 

Is this something you can hear as well? 

 

Keeping in mind the characteristics of my hearing are totally fucked from 32 ear infections within the space of 12 months, 2 separate grommet surgeries, and a myringoplasty (essentially a skin tissue graph over the hole to rebuild the eardrum) in my right ear. The myringoplasty was quite phenomenal at that point too as all but tiny flaps of eardrum were left around where my eardrum was supposed to be, I can't quite remember what my audiologist said to me after having to have a mold in my ear for 3 weeks but I believe most of the upper and lower ranges of my right ears hearing is missing, at least that's what it sounds like compared to my left

 

 

[Michael McAllister]

Sound reproduction is about getting it to reproduce as close to the original as possible, hence the term high fidelity. With a cd the resolution of the information is so high it is difficult to create new medium that provides a higher resolution that is noticeable to the human ear.

 

With regard to who has a proper audiophile setup, well I hate shit sound, so I have a custom built listening room and theatre. My missus has pig shit ears, she can barely tell the difference between laptop speakers and a tuned listening room.  My take from this is that sound quality is objective and thus why there are as many different opinions on good headphones or speakers etc as there are listeners. This is also why we are subject to BS terms like "soundstage" and "transparency".

 

Did you mean subjective?

[mr moose]

Did you mean subjective?

Oh God, not this again.  read the rest of the thread please.

[ShearMe]

Oh God, not this again. read the rest of the thread please.

I think his question was valid - depending on the meaning of the sentence he bolded, it looks like you might've made a typo. A clarification would be helpful.

[mr moose]

I think his question was valid - depending on the meaning of the sentence he bolded, it looks like you might've made a typo. A clarification would be helpful.

The rest of the thread contains a hefty discussion between myself and LAwLz about it.  I can't explain what I meant and still can't today but gave up because it wasn't making any sense to anyone else.

 

EDIT: I just read through thread again and it appears we did not discuss it as I remember, which means the voices are back.  Not there not,  yes they are,    we knows he out to get us,,  but he is our friend....

 

@Michael McAllister my best answer:

 

For the record I have trouble with the term subjective outside of social sciences. it is not easily tested and categorized without a huge sample base and caveats on inferential sentiment.

 

For me sound is a measurable physical medium who's effects on the human auditory system can be studied and tested.  does this help?

 

Now, I'm off to take my medicine and have a lie down...

[Recon-UK]

I heard quite a difference going from MP3 to FLAC with a direct rip from a Michael Jackson LP, the difference was astonishing to me, however i have some other music like Bassnectar and Bon Jovi that shows no discernble difference.

[MayflowerElectronics]

I heard quite a difference going from MP3 to FLAC with a direct rip from a Michael Jackson LP, the difference was astonishing to me, however i have some other music like Bassnectar and Bon Jovi that shows no discernble difference.

 

what was the kbps from the mp3?

[Recon-UK]

what was the kbps from the mp3?

230KBPS  i think, and i used my Realtek 889 through the DAC to Sony GENEZI MHC-GT444.

 

The overall sound was much more crystal clear with FLAC, and the main song to stand out was Thriller, opening that door, you could hear detail even in the sound the door makes, not just the sound, but the actual sound makes a properly more detailed image in your head.

 

I did a lossless rip of it directly from my DAC.

 

http://www.sendspace.com/file/6top94

 

There is a weird sound that happens 2 times in this recording, it is a distorted sound that the software puts in for being unregistered.

[Michael McAllister]

The rest of the thread contains a hefty discussion between myself and LAwLz about it.  I can't explain what I meant and still can't today but gave up because it wasn't making any sense to anyone else.

 

EDIT: I just read through thread again and it appears we did not discuss it as I remember, which means the voices are back.  Not there not,  yes they are,    we knows he out to get us,,  but he is our friend....

 

@Michael McAllister my best answer:

 

For the record I have trouble with the term subjective outside of social sciences. it is not easily tested and categorized without a huge sample base and caveats on inferential sentiment.

 

For me sound is a measurable physical medium who's effects on the human auditory system can be studied and tested.  does this help?

 

Now, I'm off to take my medicine and have a lie down...

 

To an extent, yes.  I suppose you could argue objectively that an HDMI cable sends a digital signal which consists of ones and zeros.  It either works or doesn't.  That you could definitely demonstrate.

Audio is subjective in that it's a lot like food.  Sure, you can have all these fancy nutrition labels and flashy packaging.  At the end of the day, if the customer decides to color the taste of their filet mignon with gobs of steak sauce, data doesn't matter that much.  Not the best comparison I know but hopefully illustrates my point.

[Mcdoorknob]

I honestly can hear no difference between them, I would like to think I can, but I can't.

 

Using AD700X's

[mr moose]

To an extent, yes.  I suppose you could argue objectively that an HDMI cable sends a digital signal which consists of ones and zeros.  It either works or doesn't.  That you could definitely demonstrate.

Audio is subjective in that it's a lot like food.  Sure, you can have all these fancy nutrition labels and flashy packaging.  At the end of the day, if the customer decides to color the taste of their filet mignon with gobs of steak sauce, data doesn't matter that much.  Not the best comparison I know but hopefully illustrates my point.

that's where it gets confusing, because while our preference is subjective, the electrical signal  and the sound wave can be measured very precisely.  We can use D-scopes and precision transducers to create graphs of every component of audio reproduction.  When people talk about subjective preference, well even that can be measured.  I like a flat response, that is my personal preference, and it is subjective, however that response can be measured and represented on an FR graph, thus it becomes objectively measured.  If that makes sense. 

[TheProfosist]

So scanning through this thread quickly no more than 1 or 2 people guessed right.

Whoo im a winner!

[Michael McAllister]

that's where it gets confusing, because while our preference is subjective, the electrical signal  and the sound wave can be measured very precisely.  We can use D-scopes and precision transducers to create graphs of every component of audio reproduction.  When people talk about subjective preference, well even that can be measured.  I like a flat response, that is my personal preference, and it is subjective, however that response can be measured and represented on an FR graph, thus it becomes objectively measured.  If that makes sense. 

 

If by measured, you mean doing a survey of what the preferred listening experience is, then sure.  You can objectively say that you polled 20,000 people in Denver and according to the data 66% prefer more bass over a flat response, but it would be next to impossible to try and scientifically say one is 'better' than the other.

[mr moose]

If by measured, you mean doing a survey of what the preferred listening experience is, then sure.  You can objectively say that you polled 20,000 people in Denver and according to the data 66% prefer more bass over a flat response, but it would be next to impossible to try and scientifically say one is 'better' than the other.

 

not quite what I meant but close.  I know what my preference looks like as a graph, I have installed and measured enough gear to know whether the the gear will sound good to me from the response graph,  I haven't done distortion analysis though (don't have 10,000 dollar d scope kicking around   But I can do wave file analysis where I can compare a wave file from before and after any piece of equipment ).  And for individuals I can measure the equipment they like and graph all the specs that produce a pleasing sound to them. What I can't do is say that an FR graph that looks one way will be more pleasing than another, that is too general and that is not what I meant when I referred to sound being objective.

 

In case you hadn't guessed I am a highly analytical person that relies on measurable facts to cope with reality. :unsure:

[Michael McAllister]

not quite what I meant but close.  I know what my preference looks like as a graph, I have installed and measured enough gear to know whether the the gear will sound good to me from the response graph,  I haven't done distortion analysis though (don't have 10,000 dollar d scope kicking around   But I can do wave file analysis where I can compare a wave file from before and after any piece of equipment ).  And for individuals I can measure the equipment they like and graph all the specs that produce a pleasing sound to them. What I can't do is say that an FR graph that looks one way will be more pleasing than another, that is too general and that is not what I meant when I referred to sound being objective.

 

In case you hadn't guessed I am a highly analytical person that relies on measurable facts to cope with reality. :unsure:

 

No problem, man.  I'm pretty analytical myself.  Go data.  Go science! 

[Tonylu1595]

Erm.. So Vorbis sounded the best to me.

[Octavialicious]

flac sounded amazing, where would one download more flac files?

[BoredErica]

I don't always listen to music...

But when I do, I listen at 60 mhz.

[mr moose]

I don't always listen to music...

But when I do, I listen at 60 mhz.

where have I heard that before?

[Kingofpants]

I've tested myself before and can say with the set up I currently have (onboard audio, Sennheiser HD439) I can't tell the difference between even 128kbps MP3 and FLAC. Maybe this would be different with better gear but even then I'm not sure if I could say one is definitely, consistently better than the other.

Sound is such a subjective thing, what one person likes another won't. Also, if you're not trained to hear slight differences in sounds you probably aren't going to pick it.

Placebos will actually make you "hear" a difference. Even if it doesn't exist it will change the way your brain interprets something.

It has to be a blind test to be legit.

[spartaman64]

dango dango dango dango dango dango daikazoku