Thermaltake in danger of being removed from market

[NAP51DMustang]

I wouldn't even call it that, as there are plenty of other PC cases with a similar layout. I see nothing wrong with looking at another companies product and saying "hey, that's a good idea, I wonder if we could make it better" which is what they appear to have done (better looking, and cheaper)

 

As I said though, that's the only one I'm talking about, after looking at the other products....yeah, they stole that shit. And that is illegal and I wonder who at TT thought that was a good idea.

the problem with that it is both a moral issue and illegal to do as those companies own those ideas and designs.

[TheReal1980]

They talk about it here, but it is in Swedish :

 

They have gotten shit for buying in CaseLabs chassis and then copying them and put them on Computex. Nice work Thermaltake.

[Raichuboy17]

Yeah, 

 

Problem is, most people are so god damn quick to pick up a pitchfork without even thinking. People are only talking about the outer appearance of the products. Here's a tip, form your own damn opinion instead of jumping on the next '-Gate' bandwagon you're salivating for.

 

Supressor vs. Define R5  - They look similar on the outside, but from what I can tell, the features inside the case are different. The Supressor even supports 200mm front intake fans AND eATX motherboard, that's ADDED functionality. Those are things the Define R5 doesn't even have. If the R5 weren't a minimal as hell design to begin with, then I'd have a bigger problem with this. At it's core, the design is basically just a sleek metal box, there are no embellishments, accents, lighting, or relatively fancy features, so 'copying' the R5 doesn't seem like the right word. If this were an Azza case, or something with crazy unique design, I'd understand all the hate, but the R5 is aesthetically, pretty basic. This is being blown way out of proportion. 

 

Josh's comments on the matter: who knows. He was smart to not blow up about it, far from it. Basically said something along the lines of "only so many ways you can design a metal box"  whether this is his true feelings, or just downplaying the issue, remains to be seen.

 

Corsair AF Fans vs. Thermaltake Ring Fans -  It's a god damn fan. How innovative can you get with the aesthetic design of a f**king fan. Either it's square, or it's circular. I think they look different enough to be sold as separate products, this one is stretching it.

 

NZXT Senry vs. Thermaltake Commnder - It's a touchscreen fan controller, not a lot of products out there like it. Frankly I'm glad Thermaltake is making this product, more options for consumers to choose from.

 

Swiftech vs. Thermaltake CPU Block - There was talk of the design being licensed to Thermaltake, if that's true, this is a non issue.

 

EK vs. Thermaltake Block -  Again, and I don't know much about liquid cooling, it's a god damn water block, and I don't even think they look similar.

 

 

Now the whole Case Labs controversy, that's something I can agree with everyone on. THAT's shitty.

Yeah, personally I was really excited when i heard that Corsair was going to make an LED fan and I was like "OMG WE RILL FINALLY GET A LIGHT RING FAN" but no... Corsair done f-ed up with that one and opened up an opportunity for Thermaltake, and they took it. I see that fan as something the modding community has been waiting for, too bad we won't see it in many builds because of this whole fiasco...

[PlayModeOn]

There is an interesting Top Gear episode on the car industry in China. Many things are copied are in China because copyright or intellectual property does not apply there ^^

 

And there are many cases where their cars are so identical to a BMW, Audi or Merc but they still got away with it because they claim "It looks nothing like it at all", we know its bullshit but everytime you present them a photo of a Chinese BMW and a real BMW, they'll say its not 100% identical therefore not copied.And even if they are 100% identical how are you going to stop them? They don't care if you say "No, please stop copying us!" because how will that stop them?

 

So for example the Thermaltake "Define R5" looks so identical to the real Define R5, but who in China is going to tell them to stop selling them. The Chinese government will just claim "They don't look identical at all because it has one less screwhole".

[PlayModeOn]

Supressor vs. Define R5  - They look similar on the outside, but from what I can tell, the features inside the case are different. The Supressor even supports 200mm front intake fans AND eATX motherboard, that's ADDED functionality. Those are things the Define R5 doesn't even have. If the R5 weren't a minimal as hell design to begin with, then I'd have a bigger problem with this. At it's core, the design is basically just a sleek metal box, there are no embellishments, accents, lighting, or relatively fancy features, so 'copying' the R5 doesn't seem like the right word. If this were an Azza case, or something with crazy unique design, I'd understand all the hate, but the R5 is aesthetically, pretty basic. This is being blown way out of proportion. 

 

Josh's comments on the matter: who knows. He was smart to not blow up about it, far from it. Basically said something along the lines of "only so many ways you can design a metal box"  whether this is his true feelings, or just downplaying the issue, remains to be seen.

 

Come on now, It is more than just a metal box, there is things like vents, case feet and there are many ways they could put that side panel fan mount but they place it on that specific location which is slightly offset from the centre to the left and down to cool the PCI devices. Thermaltake manages to put that exact same side panel mount on that exact same offset, they didn't even try to put it somewhere else, most cases put their side panel fan mount in the centre. It is a bit fishy.

 

There is a good Top Gear episode where they discuss China's car industry where they have to design a product that is very similar to another product but sell it to a very low price so that the locals can buy them. And because it is not 100% identical they cannot be sued, that is why they still continue to do this practice, even if it is a complete replica, they'll find ways to dismiss it by saying "the tyres are slightly smaller therefore it is not the same" or "We used plastic not aluminium, it is not the same!"

 

There is an obvious example that there is car that looks like the Rolls Royce, they even made the logo very similar to a real Rolls Royce. But because it is different, they claim it is all original. 

[TheProfosist]

The fan controller looks nothing alike. The fan looks close to a cougar one or something in my opinion. The GPU waterblock terminal I guess idk if you could make it different.

But the cpu block is basically a copy he'll I wouldn't be surprised if swiftech made it for them. If they didn't idk what to say. The R5 knockoff is pretty bang on too. I'd have to see construction and internals.

[Yun4xGaming]

It was a facetious remark, based on the fact that ripoffs are so widespread in China and thus Chinese attitudes would be expected to be more accepting of ripoffs.

 

Though it turns out he actually meant "who cares" as in who cares if Thermaltake gets shut down, rather than who cares if Thermaltake rips off everything.

Gotcha, kinda seemed like you were "Attacking" him so to say, seems like we had a Double-Missunderstanding

[ThomasD]

I don't care if the Techpower up people stayed at a Holiday Inn Express or not, but they really should not try to play jr. lawyer on the internet.  There will be no 'class action' nor will there be trade bans.

 

The only issue is whether Thermaltake has infringed upon any trademarked or patented designs.  if so then the owners of those properties can sue for damages.  That is it.

 

If the designs were not protected then they are fair game for copying.

 

Also, outfits like these (and the people at Guru3D) need to be really careful about using loaded terms like 'stealing,' 'ripping off,' and 'plagiarizing.'   As those are terms with specific meanings and imply wrongdoing if not outright criminality.

 

In other words, in the absence of factual basis they are libelous.

[Guest Generallee]

no, they just need to die a painful death.

 

Implying antec is shit

 

U got a faulty psu m8 ?

[manikyath]

Implying antec is shit

 

U got a faulty psu m8 ?

the psu in the system is be quiet, and is really nice, its just sad the case is a dust vaccuum, and sounds like a jet engine.

 

theres an acer prebuilt next to it with the same fan setup, which is dead quiet compared to my antec case.

[Guest Generallee]

the psu in the system is be quiet, and is really nice, its just sad the case is a dust vaccuum, and sounds like a jet engine.

 

theres an acer prebuilt next to it with the same fan setup, which is dead quiet compared to my antec case.

 

Which antec case ?

I got a p182 with random fans it's pretty much inaudible

[manikyath]

Which antec case ?

I got a p182 with random fans it's pretty much inaudible

idunno, its quite a few years old tho, and it's been shitty from the start, and i'm too lazy to go find the box.

[TheProfosist]

Implying antec is shit

 

U got a faulty psu m8 ?

Now days anything but their top end PSU's dont compete and those are even overpriced without a sale.

the psu in the system is be quiet, and is really nice, its just sad the case is a dust vaccuum, and sounds like a jet engine.

 

theres an acer prebuilt next to it with the same fan setup, which is dead quiet compared to my antec case.

Leaving fan control up to the case is not what should be expected in my opinion. Also you picked out teh case and set it up. Acer did the same, they just happened to do a better job it seems.

Which antec case ?

I got a p182 with random fans it's pretty much inaudible

I have a P183v3 myself. I was using it as a HTPC/Server case for a number of years with some nice scythe fans. #drool

The Antec Sonata Series is quite good as well. The Antec Sonata Solo II is one of my favorite cases to this day actually.

@manikyath The antec P180 and P190 are where much of the inspiration for the Fractal Define R came from.

idunno, its quite a few years old tho, and it's been shitty from the start, and i'm too lazy to go find the box.

If you built it you should know, im just saying. Also if its lower than a Antec 300 (v1 and I personally consider the v2 lower) it actually is POS. But that sort of thing happens at most companies at a certain price point.

[SImoHayha]

Lets just have Sony and Microsoft sue each other over each others controllers.  Because the controllers have the same amount of buttons and have two analog sticks

 

COPY RIGHT INFRINGEMENT EVERYWHEREEE

[TheProfosist]

Lets just have Sony and Microsoft sue each other over each others controllers.  Because the controllers have the same amount of buttons and have two analog sticks

 

COPY RIGHT INFRINGEMENT EVERYWHEREEE

The ID of the product is something very much different than that.

[Sakkura]

Lets just have Sony and Microsoft sue each other over each others controllers.  Because the controllers have the same amount of buttons and have two analog sticks

 

COPY RIGHT INFRINGEMENT EVERYWHEREEE

 

If the Xbone controller had X O Δ ⬜ on it, you'd see lawsuits real quick.

[spwath]

The Shell of these cases look the same, the material used in them is different from most who are there in Computex on the showroom floor, and the interior's are different. The interior of the Suppressor case is actually a step up from the R5 and Define S, given it allows more radiator support, more motherboard sizes, and offers the option between top filter or modu-vents. The downside is lack of tool box and velcro straps. Haven't looked too much in to the Caselabs case, but in the Caselabs vs Thermaltake. Steel vs Aluminium, different interiors, cheaper, different market. Caselabs has, and almost always will be the enthusiast market, and Thermaltake can market sub-par quality, but similar design to a larger audience, at a lower price point, but that doesn't change that Enthusiasts will always go for Steel, quality, and reliability(structural integrity), and customize-ability. Everyone copies eachother. Motherboard manufacturers copy designs, patterns, features, and marketing wording. Car companies. And peripheral makers. I mean--look at the E-Element RGB keyboard. Almost exactly like corsair, except the keycaps look nicer, and it's a white-ish brushed aircraft aluminium backing, but non software customize-able, different switches(Outemu), and lower-priced. Quality? Corsair. Cheaper alternative that gives you 70%? E-Element. There'll always be people who want higher quality, and always be people who will sacrifice quality to save money. It does make competition.

Caselabs Is aluminum, thermal take is steel. You have that mixed up.

Enthusiasts want aluminum.

[spwath]

The fan controller looks nothing alike. The fan looks close to a cougar one or something in my opinion. The GPU waterblock terminal I guess idk if you could make it different.

But the cpu block is basically a copy he'll I wouldn't be surprised if swiftech made it for them. If they didn't idk what to say. The R5 knockoff is pretty bang on too. I'd have to see construction and internals.

The case labs too (not really the x9 tho IMO)

[Steve N. Mavronis]

There will be no 'class action' nor will there be trade bans. The only issue is whether Thermaltake has infringed upon any trademarked or patented designs.  if so then the owners of those properties can sue for damages.  That is it. If the designs were not protected then they are fair game for copying. Also, outfits like these (and the people at Guru3D) need to be really careful about using loaded terms like 'stealing,' 'ripping off,' and 'plagiarizing.'   As those are terms with specific meanings and imply wrongdoing if not outright criminality. In other words, in the absence of factual basis they are libelous.

 

I agree on your legal points. As a comparison, there is a similar situation in the DIY guitar effects pedal community where a lot of direct cloning is done. Every effects pedal is based on a prior version in function and circuit design. The circuits themselves are not original in electrical concept and theory so they are not copyrighted and any original patents from the early days are expired. It has to be a new and novel invention basically. What the manufacturer's can sue over is the branding identification: logos, graphics, etc. Let's face it, structurally today's PC's aren't much different than the original IBM PC from the 1980's. But the Thermaltake thing does bum me out. It looks bad from a user perspective or potential customer and negative publicity. I was heavily considering the Core V21 mATX case, which is a nice custom configurable cube case. But if you look at it's little brother the V1 mITX case, the inside looks just like the Corsair 250D no doubt. So I'm leaning away from them and now going for a Phanteks EVOLV ITX case instead.

[Nosfy]

So what is a Level 10GT a copy of?

[TheProfosist]

If the Xbone controller had X O Δ ⬜ on it, you'd see lawsuits real quick.

Yea cause that's copyrighted

[TheProfosist]

Caselabs Is aluminum, thermal take is steel. You have that mixed up.

Enthusiasts want aluminum.

I personally want steel of the stainless variety.

[spwath]

I personally want steel of the stainless variety.

I dont think they make stainless steel cases...

but that would be interesting

[Titan_XXX]

Case Labs already said they won't persue legal action AND I don't think they have a patent on the design anyways. If there is no patent then it's fair game to copy it.

[KarateHottie93]

I kinda want a Level 10GT now.