Thermaltake in danger of being removed from market

[MrRavens]

Haha, can't wait to see how this all unfolds

[NAP51DMustang]

It's called competition, it's how capitalism is supposed to work, Instead of being butthurt about it, caselabs and these other companies should find a way to offer the same service and quality, at a lower price to the consumer.

 

I doubt the Core X9 is an exact copy of the Caselabs equivalent, meaning that Caselabs complaint is no different than apple complaining about people making rectangular phones with rounded edges.

(when I say exact, I mean EXACT. Same materials, same mounting points, same dimensions and measurements, a literal photo-copy)

 

 

Hooch is crazy.....

blatant IP infringement is NOT how capitalism and competition works. what you are supposed to do is come up with your own original design, not reverse engineer and reproduce someone else's product.

 

and 100 USD for the R5 is a good price, if you think that is too expensive then that's just your problem but doesn't give ANY company the right to commit patent, and IP infringement.

[ErickS89]

Not paying that ridiculous amount of money. Plus, for the size, I'd prefer a plastic case as I wouldn't need a forklift/second person to help move the damned thing when I was done building in it.

 

Dayum.....

 

Me too bro, me too

Caselabs cases aren't that heavy bro... 

[Zeruel]

Caselabs cases aren't that heavy bro...

That bro doesn't even lift....

[Guest Kloaked]

Great, now I'll never get an X9.

This happens and I won't be buying from any of the ripped off companies, as they're too expensive.

They're an American company. American labor is expensive.

[MageTank]

It's called competition, it's how capitalism is supposed to work, Instead of being butthurt about it, caselabs and these other companies should find a way to offer the same service and quality, at a lower price to the consumer.

 

I doubt the Core X9 is an exact copy of the Caselabs equivalent, meaning that Caselabs complaint is no different than apple complaining about people making rectangular phones with rounded edges.

(when I say exact, I mean EXACT. Same materials, same mounting points, same dimensions and measurements, a literal photo-copy)

 

 

Hooch is crazy.....

 

I do not think you understand what capitalism is. Looking at the aesthetics, anyone with a pair of working eye balls can tell that CaseLabs heavily influenced their design, and that is me putting it very politely. Copying peoples designs,making a 90% clone of it and selling it for 50-80% cheaper only stifles competition. It will not entice you to make a unique design because that too will eventually be stolen. If CaseLabs outsourced their work to China, sure, they could compete with the pricing, but they choose to be a "Made In America" company. As a self proclaimed conspiracy theorist, i understand you may not take pride in your country, but you cannot fault these people for doing so.

 

If you cannot afford their product, do not buy it. With your logic, it would be okay to make knock-off nikes and sell them for half the price, as long as you swap the logo out.

[Trik'Stari]

They are not being butt hurt about it, it is something that is illegal and is serious. ThermalFakes knock offs will never be as high quality as Caselab. The Core X9 is not an exact copy but it does not have to be, it just has to have enough of a copy to be wrong and illegal. Capitalism is not based off stealing and profiting it is about making a better product. Thermalfake has not done that, they have provided a better price but not a better product. They re in the wrong and anyone who supports their actions is a shitty person and is there demographics, those who don't care about others and only want something cheap. Also that don't mind much lower quality products. 

If it's just the same layout, with slightly different looks, I don't see how that's enough of a copy to qualify as illegal (remember the rectangle with rounded edges thing got thrown out of court).

 

They're an American company. American labor is expensive.

Very true. As is custom milled stuff, which is what caselabs is.

 

blatant IP infringement is NOT how capitalism and competition works. what you are supposed to do is come up with your own original design, not reverse engineer and reproduce someone else's product.

 

and 100 USD for the R5 is a good price, if you think that is too expensive then that's just your problem but doesn't give ANY company the right to commit patent, and IP infringement.

Caselabs cases aren't that heavy bro... 

I wouldn't know, I've never seen one up close. That being said, being built out of mostly metal and with a full loop in it, I would expect it to be rather heavy. Hell my air 540 is heavy and that's mostly plastic.

 

Also, I don't really see how this is IP theft. It's the same layout and general shape, nothing more.

 

That being said, I will admit that some of the other ones appear to be MUCH more blatant ripoffs. This is the only one I'm really concerned about though.

 

I do not think you understand what capitalism is. Looking at the aesthetics, anyone with a pair of working eye balls can tell that CaseLabs heavily influenced their design, and that is me putting it very politely. Copying peoples designs,making a 90% clone of it and selling it for 50-80% cheaper only stifles competition. It will not entice you to make a unique design because that too will eventually be stolen. If CaseLabs outsourced their work to China, sure, they could compete with the pricing, but they choose to be a "Made In America" company. As a self proclaimed conspiracy theorist, i understand you may not take pride in your country, but you cannot fault these people for doing so.

 

If you cannot afford their product, do not buy it. With your logic, it would be okay to make knock-off nikes and sell them for half the price, as long as you swap the logo out.

 

See above^. The other products, yeah, look like complete ripoffs. These two cases though, only share a layout and shape, something which the courts have already said, can't be copyrighted (apple Vs. samsung...again). I don't fault Caselabs for what they do, not at all. I'm just saying, you can't really complain about someone taking your idea, making it look better (at least I think the X9 looks better), and making it cheaper.

 

But as I said, I'm only talking about these two cases, the others, yes, are blatant ripoffs.

[KirbyTech]

If it's just the same layout, with slightly different looks, I don't see how that's enough of a copy to qualify as illegal (remember the rectangle with rounded edges thing got thrown out of court).

 

Very true, as is 

 

I wouldn't know, I've never seen one up close. That being said, being built out of mostly metal and with a full loop in it, I would expect it to be rather heavy. Hell my air 540 is heavy and that's mostly plastic.

 

Also, I don't really see how this is IP theft. It's the same layout and general shape, nothing more.

 

That being said, I will admit that some of the other ones appear to be MUCH more blatant ripoffs. This is the only one I'm really concerned about though.

 

 

See above^. The other products, yeah, look like complete ripoffs. These two cases though, only share a layout and shape, something which the courts have already said, can't be copyrighted (apple Vs. samsung...again). I don't fault Caselabs for what they do, not at all. I'm just saying, you can't really complain about someone taking your idea, making it look better (at least I think the X9 looks better), and making it cheaper.

 

But as I said, I'm only talking about these two cases, the others, yes, are blatant ripoffs.

You really seem to be basing your whole argument off a single court case. Really though how many ways are there to make a phone's shape? Way fewer than PC cases, while the X9 is a bit of a bigger stretch than other products of their it is still very similar, although it is one of the few other have mentioned that I would call borderline as to weather is infringes in IP.

[Trik'Stari]

You really seem to be basing your whole argument off a single court case. Really though how many ways are there to make a phone's shape? Way fewer than PC cases, while the X9 is a bit of a bigger stretch than other products of their it is still very similar, although it is one of the few other have mentioned that I would call borderline as to weather is infringes in IP.

I wouldn't even call it that, as there are plenty of other PC cases with a similar layout. I see nothing wrong with looking at another companies product and saying "hey, that's a good idea, I wonder if we could make it better" which is what they appear to have done (better looking, and cheaper)

 

As I said though, that's the only one I'm talking about, after looking at the other products....yeah, they stole that shit. And that is illegal and I wonder who at TT thought that was a good idea.

[KirbyTech]

I wouldn't even call it that, as there are plenty of other PC cases with a similar layout.

 

As I said though, that's the only one I'm talking about, after looking at the other products....yeah, they stole that shit.

If it was just that case I would say they didn't but they have other products that are blatant rip offs so you have to look at it in a different way. The X9 on its own is not but when you consider their other products it sure seems like they copied for a good bit of the outside. 

[Trik'Stari]

If it was just that case I would say they didn't but they have other products that are blatant rip offs so you have to look at it in a different way. The X9 on its own is not but when you consider their other products it sure seems like they copied for a good bit of the outside. 

The outside on the x9 is completely different looking. The only real similarities seem to be the placing of rads on top, the horizontal mobo, and somewhat, the layout of the PSU's and drive cages on the bottom. Which again....it's just a layout, you can't really copyright that, at least not to my knowledge.

 

The x9 has a bigger side window, the opposite side has ventilation, the front is different, etc. Although you can probably get all of those things custom on the caselabs case.

[The Gaige]

I say we boycott Thermaltake, that's one way to close there doors!

[KirbyTech]

The outside on the x9 is completely different looking. The only real similarities seem to be the placing of rads on top, the horizontal mobo, and somewhat, the layout of the PSU's and drive cages on the bottom. Which again....it's just a layout, you can't really copyright that, at least not to my knowledge.

 

The x9 has a bigger side window, the opposite side has ventilation, the front is different, etc. Although you can probably get all of those things custom on the caselabs case.

That last part it correct, it is the options on the Case labs and according to JayzTwoCents they did order 2 cases from caselabs and the copies are of those two cases with the options they had on them.. So while the stock caselabs case might look different the one ThermalFake ordered is not that different.

[KirbyTech]

I say we boycott Thermaltake, that's one way to close there doors!

No just vote will your wallet, if you support them continue to buy from them if not then don't and don't recommend their products.

[Misanthrope]

blatant IP infringement is NOT how capitalism and competition works. 

 

[xeromynd]

@MeDownYou can you updated the OT with : 

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/thermaltake_designs_at_computex_2015_look_familiar/1

http://www.legitreviews.com/thermaltake-accused-of-stealing-new-computex-products-went-too-far_165153

 

 

Problem is, most people are so god damn quick to pick up a pitchfork without even thinking. People are only talking about the outer appearance of the products. Here's a tip, form your own damn opinion instead of jumping on the next '-Gate' bandwagon you're salivating for.

 

Supressor vs. Define R5  - They look similar on the outside, but from what I can tell, the features inside the case are different. The Supressor even supports 200mm front intake fans AND eATX motherboard, that's ADDED functionality. Those are things the Define R5 doesn't even have. If the R5 weren't a minimal as hell design to begin with, then I'd have a bigger problem with this. At it's core, the design is basically just a sleek metal box, there are no embellishments, accents, lighting, or relatively fancy features, so 'copying' the R5 doesn't seem like the right word. If this were an Azza case, or something with crazy unique design, I'd understand all the hate, but the R5 is aesthetically, pretty basic. This is being blown way out of proportion. 

 

Josh's comments on the matter: who knows. He was smart to not blow up about it, far from it. Basically said something along the lines of "only so many ways you can design a metal box"  whether this is his true feelings, or just downplaying the issue, remains to be seen.

 

Corsair AF Fans vs. Thermaltake Ring Fans -  It's a god damn fan. How innovative can you get with the aesthetic design of a f**king fan. Either it's square, or it's circular. I think they look different enough to be sold as separate products, this one is stretching it.

 

NZXT Senry vs. Thermaltake Commnder - It's a touchscreen fan controller, not a lot of products out there like it. Frankly I'm glad Thermaltake is making this product, more options for consumers to choose from.

 

Swiftech vs. Thermaltake CPU Block - There was talk of the design being licensed to Thermaltake, if that's true, this is a non issue.

 

EK vs. Thermaltake Block -  Again, and I don't know much about liquid cooling, it's a god damn water block, and I don't even think they look similar.

 

 

Now the whole Case Labs controversy, that's something I can agree with everyone on. THAT's shitty.

[NateGSR117]

Things are only going to get worse for them if they don't rectify the problem.

[That Norwegian Guy]

You people and your pitchforks. You make me sick.

 

110% of it based on kneejerk reactions to misinformation as well. Especially the Fractal "copy" which is Nanoxia's design to begin with. Be ashamed of yourselves, you sound like fucking dark ages witch hunters.

 

"Oh that little girl bled from her nether regions? BURN HER BEFORE SHE LAYS EGGS"

[MageTank]

 

See above^. The other products, yeah, look like complete ripoffs. These two cases though, only share a layout and shape, something which the courts have already said, can't be copyrighted (apple Vs. samsung...again). I don't fault Caselabs for what they do, not at all. I'm just saying, you can't really complain about someone taking your idea, making it look better (at least I think the X9 looks better), and making it cheaper.

 

But as I said, I'm only talking about these two cases, the others, yes, are blatant ripoffs.

 

I agree, that the X9 and Mercury S8 look nothing alike (i dont even see any similarities as far as general aesthetics go) but i do find a fault with you saying 

 

Great, now I'll never get an X9.

 

This happens and I won't be buying from any of the ripped off companies, as they're too expensive.

 

as it makes it look like you condone the practice of stealing others work and selling it cheaper. It essentially looks like "If these people defend the right for their work to remain un-infringed upon, i will not buy from them because they are expensive". If we spin that around, and say "If they let thermaltake steal their designs, i will buy from them" it makes no sense. You would not have bought their work in the first place due to the price, regardless of how they go about defending their products.

 

It would be an entirely different ball game if TT changed the looks of their products while matching the functionality of the others. At the very least, the companies they infringed upon can still sell their cases for their aesthetic appeal. However, when you copy the functionality of the cases, and match the aesthetics almost perfectly, and charge half the price, you leave the original designers of the case at a huge disadvantage. This is not okay. This is why people are angry at ThermalTake. They are taking the design, and slapping their logo on it. The one case you want, would be the exception to that rule as i too see no similarities between the two (other than their shape and size). 

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

OMG guys these 2 heat sinks look the same!

  

 

They clearly ripped each other off right??? RIGHT?????

 

/s

[Misanthrope]

 

I agree, that the X9 and Mercury S8 look nothing alike (i dont even see any similarities as far as general aesthetics go) but i do find a fault with you saying 

 

 

as it makes it look like you condone the practice of stealing others work and selling it cheaper. It essentially looks like "If these people defend the right for their work to remain un-infringed upon, i will not buy from them because they are expensive". If we spin that around, and say "If they let thermaltake steal their designs, i will buy from them" it makes no sense. You would not have bought their work in the first place due to the price, regardless of how they go about defending their products.

 

It would be an entirely different ball game if TT changed the looks of their products while matching the functionality of the others. At the very least, the companies they infringed upon can still sell their cases for their aesthetic appeal. However, when you copy the functionality of the cases, and match the aesthetics almost perfectly, and charge half the price, you leave the original designers of the case at a huge disadvantage. This is not okay. This is why people are angry at ThermalTake. They are taking the design, and slapping their logo on it. The one case you want, would be the exception to that rule as i too see no similarities between the two (other than their shape and size). 

 

 

Now I know that the legal system is biased and flawed by nature, but let's assume it actually did work. It wouldn't be hard to prove theft if you actually had a very clear cut, beyond reasonable doubt case of an unauthorize duplicate. The only one that could come close to that is one of the caselabs ones and even that has enough differences as to create reasonable doubt.

Clothing designers, phone makers, etc. Can inspire trends and fairly similar products and there's nothing they can do about it other than stand out on their own (i.e. people do not stop buying designer clothing because they can find similar cheap products) but to go as to say "this is a copy, henceforth infringement" it has to be something more solid that "We made a rectangle case with centered mesh before them"

[MageTank]

Now I know that the legal system is biased and flawed by nature, but let's assume it actually did work. It wouldn't be hard to prove theft if you actually had a very clear cut, beyond reasonable doubt case of an unauthorize duplicate. The only one that could come close to that is one of the caselabs ones and even that has enough differences as to create reasonable doubt.

Clothing designers, phone makers, etc. Can inspire trends and fairly similar products and there's nothing they can do about it other than stand out on their own (i.e. people do not stop buying designer clothing because they can find similar cheap products) but to go as to say "this is a copy, henceforth infringement" it has to be something more solid that "We made a rectangle case with centered mesh before them"

 

I suppose you are correct in that sense. It would come down to morals, rather than a legal case. Though history has shown us that people can sue over the dumbest things and still win. I appreciate your insight on this, as its the only post so far to at the very least, change my outlook on this situation, so thanks for that.

[SurvivorNVL]

The Shell of these cases look the same, the material used in them is different from most who are there in Computex on the showroom floor, and the interior's are different.  The interior of the Suppressor case is actually a step up from the R5 and Define S, given it allows more radiator support, more motherboard sizes, and offers the option between top filter or modu-vents.  The downside is lack of tool box and velcro straps.  Haven't looked too much in to the Caselabs case, but in the Caselabs vs Thermaltake.  Steel vs Aluminium, different interiors, cheaper, different market.  Caselabs has, and almost always will be the enthusiast market, and Thermaltake can market sub-par quality, but similar design to a larger audience, at a lower price point, but that doesn't change that Enthusiasts will always go for Steel, quality, and reliability(structural integrity), and customize-ability.  Everyone copies eachother.  Motherboard manufacturers copy designs, patterns, features, and marketing wording.  Car companies.  And peripheral makers.  I mean--look at the E-Element RGB keyboard.  Almost exactly like corsair, except the keycaps look nicer, and it's a white-ish brushed aircraft aluminium backing, but non software customize-able, different switches(Outemu), and lower-priced.  Quality?  Corsair.  Cheaper alternative that gives you 70%?  E-Element.  There'll always be people who want higher quality, and always be people who will sacrifice quality to save money.  It does make competition.

[othertomperson]

For you, but they do make some great things, so don't try and make your opinion a fact.

 

I agree. I expect appropriate citations, with Harvard Referencing and 5000 words with a tolerance of 5% on every post. I'm going to have to fail you for this, you just don't meet the standard of a fucking forum post.

[Misanthrope]

I suppose you are correct in that sense. It would come down to morals, rather than a legal case. Though history has shown us that people can sue over the dumbest things and still win. I appreciate your insight on this, as its the only post so far to at the very least, change my outlook on this situation, so thanks for that.

 

Right, and said morals are being blown out of proportion by certain outlets and individuals: Caselabs broke the news so to speak with their statements and such but after that everyone is happy to pick it up and create this supposedly huge controversy where there isn't a huge one. What we have here are 2 cases that look relatively close to other cases, but one of them is so simplistic literally every vendor has a very similar case anyway (NZXT S340 and H230, Corsair 750D, Coolermaster Silencio 550, Silverstone FT05, etc. All remarkably similar by being featureless black fucking rectangles) and one that borrows more heavily but still quite simplistic (Black rectangle with centered mesh rectangle, dual chambers which have been made previously as well several times by Corsair, by Coolermaster, etc) 

 

The rest it's just people trying desperately to find similarities where there are none: completely different looking fan controllers, a circular fan with color accents, a featureless black watercooling block and watercooling bridge fitting thing, etc. If you look at any company's line of product you'll find tons of similarities, some even closer than the ones people are claiming here.

 

It never ceases to amaze me just how easily opinions can be shaped and controller by people who are just doing it to drive traffic to their websites and views to their videos, they are being just as disingenuous as Thermaltake allegedly are by again making this a bigger issue than it actually is.