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Guru Richard Huddy explains why Nvidia are the bad guys with Nvidia Game works.

Altecice

Apologies if this is a re-post but I could not find anything about this.

 

 

So I found an interesting video on youtube involving the Maximum PC crew and Richard Huddy. For those unfamiliar with the AMD exec, Huddy has spent time working at ATI, AMD, Nvidia, Intel, and is now back at AMD. He's also widely considered one of the pioneers of DirectX. Suffice it to say, he knows his stuff.
 
In this interview he talks about how Nvidia are forcing developers that work with Nvidia to use Nvidia Gameworks and its .DLL's (not source code so its hidden from AMD). This in turn has a negative effect on AMD cards. He also goes onto to talk about Nvidia contracts and how its written into the contracts that the game developers are NOT allowed to optimize the code for AMD cards.
 
 
Here is the video ( its worth watching from about 30:15  to 40 mins).
 
 
 
What do you all think about this?

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Inb4 lulz I had Nvidia card not my problem.

- snip-

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This is going to get locked, I recommend moving it to general discussion.

- snip-

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I dont really care. I think game developers need to make games work with the cards that are given instead of letting the card developers fix the problems with patches. 

 

edit:

 

This is going to get locked, I recommend moving it to general discussion.

this is the right location and I dont see why it will get locked. thanks for you input. 

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I dont really care. I think game developers need to make games work with the cards that are given instead of letting the card developers fix the problems with patches. 

 

 

How about you give it a watch first before commenting? :P

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As competent as he is, i stopped trusting him in most stuff after he made some very retarded remarks on twitter over the last year or so. Guy seems like a twat, and worse, obviously AMD biased twat.

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Watching. This is getting interesting...

I don't do signatures.

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I dont really care. I think game developers need to make games work with the cards that are given instead of letting the card developers fix the problems with patches.

edit:

this is the right location and I dont see why it will get locked. thanks for you input.

Just all threads about gameworks have been getting locked because they result in flame wars.

- snip-

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As competent as he is, i stopped trusting him in most stuff after he made some very retarded remarks on twitter over the last year or so. Guy seems like a twat, and worse, obviously AMD biased twat.

You wouldnt want an AMD dev to fight for his team.

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You wouldnt want an AMD dev to fight for his team.

Well of course its normal what he does, and he would say the opposite if he was still at NV... But that doesnt mean he should be called a guru or be taken seriously. Especially since AMD is the single most butthurt company over GameWorks, and just refuses to optimise its driver for some reason...

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How about you give it a watch first before commenting? :P

no no i get what its about but in the past ive heard that game devs just have broken games and leave it up to nvidia and amd to release pacthes to fix it. I think working with nvidia is good and I do like the features that nvidia brings to the table. I dont think game devs should single out a game for a specific card but at the same time, nvidia does own the rights to their stuff. I would be nice for Nvidia to make it free or have cheap royalties so everone can have the same thing. I will say that if amd does not pull itself together and stop being the budget option they are going to get left in the dust. 

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Well of course its normal what he does, and he would say the opposite if he was still at NV... But that doesnt mean he should be called a guru or be taken seriously. Especially since AMD is the single most butthurt company over GameWorks, and just refuses to optimise its driver for some reason...

 

If you watch the video he goes on to explain that because Gameworks uses .DLL's they are precompiled code that means AMD cant optimize for it correctly unlike every other game engine that uses source code. He also goes onto explain that its written into the contract between a game dev and Nvidia that if they use Gameworks they are strictly forbidden to optmize it for AMD cards. 

 

Then again we dont know how much of this is true, But he does put over a compelling argument and offers to show AMD contracts if Nvidia want to show theirs to prove his point (know fine well that Nvidia wont want to do this).

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If you watch the video he goes on to explain that because Gameworks uses .DLL's they are precompiled code that means AMD cant optimize for it correctly unlike every other game engine that uses source code. He also goes onto explain that its written into the contract between a game dev and Nvidia that if they use Gameworks they are strictly forbidden to optmize it for AMD cards. 

 

Then again we dont know how much of this is true, But he does put over a compelling argument and offers to show AMD contracts if Nvidia want to show theirs to prove his point (know fine well that Nvidia wont want to do this).

As a game developer, i can tell you that first part is complete and utter BULLSHIT. Do you think studios just give AMD and NV source access to the game engine and surrounding code? nope. They get compiled stuff because that is all they need. They have engineers there for a reason. Test how it works, and optimise the driver for it. No need to see the exact algorithms for that. And even then, one can reverse engineer most algorithms from a big enough sample of tests and results. 

 

For the second part, you just have to take into account he is an employee of amd. then also take into acount the fact NV denied that, as well as (afaik) no developer confirmed it (even when ubisoft was working with AMD they never said they arent allowed by NV, iirc AMD didnt want to cooperate because they didnt get the source files for GW, as understandably, NV wont just give them away)

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I'd just like to ask, he at one point says that AMD couldn't do the exact same thing, using Mantle, that Nvidia does with their stuff......

 

 

But why not? Granted it would make them "just as bad as Nvidia".....but what's stopping them from doing it?

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I'd just like to ask, he at one point says that AMD couldn't do the exact same thing, using Mantle, that Nvidia does with their stuff......

 

 

But why not? Granted it would make them "just as bad as Nvidia".....but what's stopping them from doing it?

They dont have enough money to fund the RD needed. So they want to "borrow" it by lying about how they need source access to optimise

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They dont have enough money to fund the RD needed. So they want to "borrow" it by lying about how they need source access to optimise

Interesting.

 

Sounds like AMD needs to stop going in so many directions at once. I'd speculate that if AMD focused on just CPU's or just GPU's they'd be capable of a lot more.

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Interesting.

 

Sounds like AMD needs to stop going in so many directions at once. I'd speculate that if AMD focused on just CPU's or just GPU's they'd be capable of a lot more.

Consoles were a good thing (i think, i have no idea how much they spent on those semi-custom APUs), but they should really either halt their other divisions, or significantly downsize them and relocate the budgets to their CPU (mostly) and GPU (a little bit) divisions. Noone really cares about their ram and ssd bullcrap. and Mantle was a useless product in every way except quickening the pace for Vulkan. so there is that

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Consoles were a good thing (i think, i have no idea how much they spent on those semi-custom APUs), but they should really either halt their other divisions, or significantly downsize them and relocate the budgets to their CPU (mostly) and GPU (a little bit) divisions. Noone really cares about their ram and ssd bullcrap. and Mantle was a useless product in every way except quickening the pace for Vulkan. so there is that

Yeah, just seems like they don't know which way they want to go.

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Yeah, just seems like they don't know which way they want to go.

They do, but the problem is they want to go every way, and that is just not possible with their financial situation. They are not Intel to just decide a market is now theirs and take it (eg, servers from IBM, soon mobile). Neither are they NV to just pour money at the problem until someone finds their solution good for their use (Tegra X1 being used for car stuff being an example)

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They dont have enough money to fund the RD needed. So they want to "borrow" it by lying about how they need source access to optimise

Uhm actually I disagree on that. AMD can't do that because Mantle is open source, so if they did everyone would know. With NVIDIA nobody really knows if those compiled dlls are indeed crippling AMD hardware on purpose, so gamers do not know who to point the finger at. Also on the thing you previously said about source code, he did not say AMD needed the source code to optimise the library for their cards, but that the developers should have it so they can use "platform-neutral" code, if I understood correctly.

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Anyone else miss that this video is old news, people argued for weeks on LTT when that video dropped.

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The part where he talks about tessellation is odd, because he says that there's all this unneeded tessellation going on, and that's why AMD is slow, but then isn't it their fault for having bad tessellation?

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