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Irontheater

I am simply not able to perceive Microsoft from a Neutral stand point anymore. -Discussion- CMV

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Disclaimer: This thread is for discussion only. Please don't turn it into a flaming war.

 

 

In the last 6 or so Months, I have not been able to see Microsoft's actions in particular, and as a company in general, positively. I figured maybe you guys could help change my view, and at least bring me back to a neutral stand point.

 

I usually tend to form my own opinions about companies, whether I am favorable, or not for them, and whether I tend to get their products, or not.

And while I have my opinions, I can perfectly play a devil's advocate, because I understand how the other companies operate/think.

 

 

As an example: I am a PC gamer, but I understand the need for consoles, and why some people buy them.

I prefer Android over iOS, but I could perfectly compliment Apple on the good work they have been doing on their iPhones.

I don't like MacBooks, but I can see how they positively affect laptops, and I understand why some people buy them. 

I don't really like the way Samsung operates, but they still bring new stuff to the table, and continue pushing the competition.

 

 

Point is, I have not been able to perceive any positive traits in Microsoft's recent behavior. Most notably in the last 2-3 years.

 

Most companies have something unique for them. Something they do better than anyone else. Or before anyone else.

Microsoft had Windows. (well maybe now they have Kinect, but it's still a long way off imo)

 

The plateau we have been seeing surrounding it absolutely killed off all the extra advantage that it had over its competition.

Maybe the plateau wasn't MS's fault, and it became too hard to further optimize an OS.

 

 

Instead of moving to a new project (something unique), MS is now trying to remorselessly cut corners, and play follow up behind their competitors.

As Siri made its way into the public, followed closely after by Google Now ~2 years ago, it was only after 13-14 months that we heard MS trying out their Voice assistant in Beta.

Same goes for the rumors about the Glass clone and iWatch clone.(but nothing confirmed)

 

 

And every time they do an effort to differentiate themselves, they are met with strong criticism.

 

Not because people don't like change. But because the change they propose is (as I would describe) Anti-consumerist, they are simply not caring about us, IMHO. The latest Xbox barnacle is a good example.

 

Publishing Betas as full releases, or forcing a complete and radical new design should not be tolerated.

Every company has its own design language.

 

 

Simply no one does it. Or at least no one who wishes to be respected.

 

Mercedes evolution:

http://www.europeancarweb.com/firstlook/0208ec_2003_mercedes_benz_e500/photo_07.html#

 

This thing also applies in the tech world.

iPhone evolution:

http://www.techinews.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/all-apple-iphones.jpg

 

I could give a lot of other example. But I think I got this point across.

 

I tend to like when companies are technically challenged to improve/change.

And I can't see how Microsoft is providing healthy competition.

 

Be it suing Linux for infringing on its patents (which it didn't), starting the famous #DroidRage campaigns on Twitter (which backfired iirc), attacking other companies in their Ads, and falsely publicizing their services. (the fact that they said Google snoops around your email, while they don't was a straight shot to my respect for them, most notably after the PRISME debacle revealed that they handed Skype and email access to the gov.)

 

 

Their way to competition is not offering better stuff than the others, they are simply buying their way in. With the over flood in Windows 8, and WP8, Bing, Outlook, Office...etc advertisements (in my area at least), it became quickly clear to me what and who they were targeting.

 

 

The fact that Ballmer, the CEO of a $300 Billion company, can say in public: 

"There is no way that the iPhone is going to get any market share" and mocks Apple, or

"Google is not a real company", and mocks them

straight up reveals to me how much respect this man deserves, and why the fate of the company is at danger.

 

It's not that we chose to use Windows. We were obliged, in a sort. When all games, and most programs are on Windows and not on other OSes, we are not being given a choice.

I use Ubuntu when I want to do things besides Gaming, but I understand that not everyone wants to dual boot OSes and send bug notes, just to feel good about benefiting the small guys.

I am not a developer, but I also heard their developer's policies are pretty bad. (but I can't judge on that, since I can't back it up, but I know that they treat Xbox indie devs toxicly)

 

Of course Microsoft has a charity movement, right? They care about us even if only a little bit, right? They have made some positive changes, and were not only blinded by the business side of things, right?

 

 

 

I believe here I gave why I objectively dislike Microsoft, and why I am even unable to play a devil's advocate for them.

I would like you guys to Change My View, and tell me why Microsoft did not become as bad as I am depicting them, and as I believe they are.

 

What are some new good stuff they have been making that I am missing? I know that their business grade products are good, but that's all i know when it comes to positive stuff about them.

 

I want to be able to perceive MS from a relatively neutral stand point.

 

 

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I would like you guys to Change My View, and tell me why Microsoft did not become as bad as I am depicting them, and as I believe they are.

That wont be easy as I agree with you on most points :P


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Ballmer said that Google isn't a real company?

Google's more of a company than Microsoft will ever be. Seriously, look at how many fanboys Microsoft has (few and far inbetween), now look at Google's fanboys (oh wait, I guess that's the majority of the population). 

While Google's innovating and creating amazing products and services (most of the services are FREE), Microsoft is just siting back and suing everyone for patent infringement. 

 

The funniest thing in out tech world - I have to say - is the fact that all the tech giants complain about patent trolls, but yet they're trolls themselves.


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Ya know, I think you came into this with the wrong idea.

There's really nothing I can think of for Microsoft that's positive. I can give you nothing that will give you a neutral standpoint.

There are times when a company basically goes insane. I think this is that time for Microsoft. There's no way to "have a neutral viewpoint" about them, and nothing positive about them either. At least as far as I'm concerned, I may not know something.

Good luck with that.


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the only positive thing I can think of is that they finally improved internet explorer to the point that it's a usable browser in version 10.

 

though considering even that took them this long.......not sure it's completely positive.


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I can't really come up with positive examples from the last 2-3 years. I've never personally agreed with a lot of business practices in the Xbox side of MS, but I haven't really minded what's happening on the Windows side of things, including Windows 8, the phones, the tablet (pro version is still really expensive, so there's that), and Office. However, do I think this is enough to make up for the fumblings the OP listed? Hell no.

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Im so sick of them I went on Change.org and signed the petition for the Xbox One pre-E3 arrangement. I want them to die (as a company). That takes a thousand cuts.


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Good luck trying to get positive feedback of Microsoft :P I don't think there's anyone on this forum that is a fan of Microsoft. The moment when enough games are ported to Linux I'll switch to it right away.


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I still don't get why when they do something they seem to get more backlash than other companies.

Are they perfect? No, but every time they 'innovate' they get complaints about being different. Vista didn't sick, it was different. Windows 8 isn't bad, it's different. Xbox one had lots of features that I guarantee will be standard in five years but nobody cares. If apple made a console tied to the app store they would be praised as innovators. You can't sell or trade digital apps, not without DRM. But then people would complain about DRM.

My idea of the problem with Xbox one is they are too early. Everybody likes the ps4, but what is new? Where is the innovation? Let's take the ps3 and make it faster? Lame and boring. Microsoft is often early. They did smart phones ten years ago, tablets almost that long ago. Nobody cared.

I'm not going to try to defend them on security though.

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I have a friends who's a microsoft fanboy O.0 

He's pretty annoying


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My idea of the problem with Xbox one is they are too early. Everybody likes the ps4, but what is new? Where is the innovation? Let's take the ps3 and make it faster? Lame and boring. Microsoft is often early. They did smart phones ten years ago, tablets almost that long ago. Nobody cared.

I'm not going to try to defend them on security though.

You obviously aren't paying attention to the innovations in the PS4. 

  1. A secondary chip dedicated to downloads/updates/video encoding. (That's new for Sony.)
  2. Streaming games over the internet to play.
  3. Playing another person's games for them over the internet.
  4. Integrating gameplay and streaming as it is on PC (mostly).

I'm probably missing some things but those are the ones off the top of my head.


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I hate to say it but Microsoft is becoming a monolithic piece of shit. They can rest on their laurels because for the past 20 years they have maintained market dominance and that's what made them stagnant. But this 

mentality they have that they are the only major tech company and everyone else are just posers is absolutely absurd. I am cheering for the android/Google camp where there is a real sense of advancement and technology improvement.


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Well, I'd love to stick up for Microsoft as Bill Gates and the Microsoft were instrumental in creating the information age that relatively young people such as myself often take for granted. However, the truth is there isn't alot of innovation that Microsoft has to do. They own a 90% share of the OS market and frankly apple and linux will never make a dent in that, there is no need for microsoft to innovate in the OS market.  

 

As far as the console market they got over confident last generation with the Xbox 360 dominating the PS3 for the vast majority of generation and figured that domination would continue. Also things like DRM were solid ideas, however the implementation was so poorly done that it didn't matter. 

 

My biggest problem with Microsoft is the same problem I have with every company like Microsoft. When you beat all your competitors soundly and becoming king of the market in which you operate there is no longer any reason to continue to innovate until a competitor comes in to challenge. Our best hope for the future is Google continuing push Microsoft in core business components like Office and OS.


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Well, I'd love to stick up for Microsoft as Bill Gates and the Microsoft were instrumental in creating the information age that relatively young people such as myself often take for granted. However, the truth is there isn't alot of innovation that Microsoft has to do. They own a 90% share of the OS market and frankly apple and linux will never make a dent in that, there is no need for microsoft to innovate in the OS market.  

 

As far as the console market they got over confident last generation with the Xbox 360 dominating the PS3 for the vast majority of generation and figured that domination would continue. Also things like DRM were solid ideas, however the implementation was so poorly done that it didn't matter. 

 

My biggest problem with Microsoft is the same problem I have with every company like Microsoft. When you beat all your competitors soundly and becoming king of the market in which you operate there is no longer any reason to continue to innovate until a competitor comes in to challenge. Our best hope for the future is Google continuing push Microsoft in core business components like Office and OS.

See now with Ballmer basically setting himself head of all the m,Microsoft divisions, it will just be failure all around. I think they're too shy to tell him to leave.


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Microsoft probably feels invincible because it has Windows.

 

No matter how arrogant Microsoft acts, people are going to buy Windows.

 

Many people simply have no other option.  If you don't want to spend $1000+ on a computer, OS X is out of the question.  If you're not a techie and don't have a techie to set things up for you, Linux is out of the question.  There are millions upon millions of people out there that fall right into those categories.

 

If you're a gamer...you're basically stuck with Windows.  (Unless Gabe Newell can make miracles happen.)

 

Microsoft almost doesn't have to care about anything else.  As long as Xbox sells decently, Microsoft will do whatever the hell it wants.  And unfortunately I'm unsure there's a way to stop it.


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Posted · Original PosterOP

Oh, wow.

 

I imagined I was going to get an overwhelming majority cheering with MS. But instead, it seems that a lot of people actually have the same opinions as me.

 

 

I still don't get why when they do something they seem to get more backlash than other companies.

Are they perfect? No, but every time they 'innovate' they get complaints about being different. Vista didn't sick, it was different. Windows 8 isn't bad, it's different. Xbox one had lots of features that I guarantee will be standard in five years but nobody cares. If apple made a console tied to the app store they would be praised as innovators. You can't sell or trade digital apps, not without DRM. But then people would complain about DRM.

My idea of the problem with Xbox one is they are too early. Everybody likes the ps4, but what is new? Where is the innovation? Let's take the ps3 and make it faster? Lame and boring. Microsoft is often early. They did smart phones ten years ago, tablets almost that long ago. Nobody cared.

I'm not going to try to defend them on security though.

 

Vista was at best a Beta at launch.

 

I am not saying this because I dislike MS, I am saying this because compared to Windows XP, it was actually a step down in a lot of ways.

The Aero GUI was awesome, and did not intrude with the Windows signature layout, the problem was elsewhere.

 

The OS was not optimized. It was a resource hog. It required at least 4 GB of RAM to run "well". (and when it was released, 4 GB of RAM costed quite a bit, and weren't as commonly found as now).

Major drivers were not supported at release date. Not even the big companies. I couldn't run my NVIDIA card at launch. No sound. No front facing cam on my laptop.

Sure the external GUI looked awesome, but when you delved a bit past that, you were brought back to XP era. The OS did not feel as if it was designed by the same company. It felt off.

And even then, what you used to find easily in XP under options were hidden under 3-4 additional clicks in Vista. It was a bit confusing at first, and frustrating after a bit.

One more thing I'd like to add is the UAC. It popped up like crazy. It went too far. It was fixed in W7 (thankfully).

 

Basically, Vista was a Beta at launch, at best.

 

The Xbox One's biggest mistake was not knowing what to say on stage. And the biggest problem with the Xbox One is not the DRM, it's the always on Kinect, and demanding constant connection to the internet.

I can tolerate DRM. 

I can't tolerate someone giving off a 24/7 surveillance video of me to the US gov. (although that will happen, soon, and we can't stop it, but that's a topic for a later date)

 

You also talk about their "smartphones" and "tablets".

Yes, the iMate was released 10 years ago, but that doesn't relieve the fact that it was unusable. I wanted one when it came out. I really did. I went to a retailer and tried one out. But doing anything on it proved to be a challenge. Even simple tasks like opening a document, it was too buggy, too slow, and a battery drainage machine.

 

But that is besides the point. I can't defend MS today, for something they did 10 years ago. I used to like MS, and I believe Bill Gates did a wonderful job with his company.

My problem with them is what they have been doing now.

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See the way i see it is the end user is just the lab rat. I don't like the fact that we are just their beta testers. A multi-billion dollar company like Microsoft has no excuse for the un-optimized crap their services offer. Look at windows 8 and how many new problems it has caused. And they haven't fixed a thing, in fact they have done the opposite. They made it worse by making it seem like they're listening but taking their own stupid approach. 


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Oh, wow.

 

I imagined I was going to get an overwhelming majority cheering with MS. But instead, it seems that a lot of people actually have the same opinions as me.

 

Vista was at best a Beta at launch.

 

I am not saying this because I dislike MS, I am saying this because compared to Windows XP, it was actually a step down in a lot of ways.

The Aero GUI was awesome, and did not intrude with the Windows signature layout, the problem was elsewhere.

 

The OS was not optimized. It was a resource hog. It required at least 4 GB of RAM to run "well". (and when it was released, 4 GB of RAM costed quite a bit, and weren't as commonly found as now).

Major drivers were not supported at release date. Not even the big companies. I couldn't run my NVIDIA card at launch. No sound. No front facing cam on my laptop.

Sure the external GUI looked awesome, but when you delved a bit past that, you were brought back to XP era. The OS did not feel as if it was designed by the same company. It felt off.

And even then, what you used to find easily in XP under options were hidden under 3-4 additional clicks in Vista. It was a bit confusing at first, and frustrating after a bit.

One more thing I'd like to add is the UAC. It popped up like crazy. It went too far. It was fixed in W7 (thankfully).

 

Basically, Vista was a Beta at launch, at best.

 

The Xbox One's biggest mistake was not knowing what to say on stage. And the biggest problem with the Xbox One is not the DRM, it's the always on Kinect, and demanding constant connection to the internet.

I can tolerate DRM. 

I can't tolerate someone giving off a 24/7 surveillance video of me to the US gov. (although that will happen, soon, and we can't stop it, but that's a topic for a later date)

 

You also talk about their "smartphones" and "tablets".

Yes, the iMate was released 10 years ago, but that doesn't relieve the fact that it was unusable. I wanted one when it came out. I really did. I went to a retailer and tried one out. But doing anything on it proved to be a challenge. Even simple tasks like opening a document, it was too buggy, too slow, and a battery drainage machine.

 

But that is besides the point. I can't defend MS today, for something they did 10 years ago. I used to like MS, and I believe Bill Gates did a wonderful job with his company.

My problem with them is what they have been doing now.

Agreed on Vista.

I disagree about the surveillance video comment. I won't let that happen to me. Say what you will about me, but I will go dark/join a revolution before that slides. 

Same. 


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For my pertinent links to guides, reviews, and anything similar, go here, and look under the spoiler labeled such. A brief history of Unix and it's relation to OS X by Builder.

 

 

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Agreed on Vista.

I disagree about the surveillance video comment. I won't let that happen to me. Say what you will about me, but I will go dark/join a revolution before that slides. 

Same. 

just don't buy the damn Xbox. That is the solution for now but it will get much worse unless the US has a massive government change. Viva la revolucion

 I don't want civil war but i would like to see career politicians outed immediately and the ones that get kickbacks from banks and oil companies.


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Posted · Original PosterOP

Well, I think I'll post this to Reddit, hopefully I get some replies that can bring back a neutral stance towards MS. 

They are still one of the biggest companies, they must be doing something good.

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