Project CARS devs address AMD performance issues, AMD drivers to blame entirely, PhysX runs on CPU only, no GPU involvement whatsoever.

[shawno]

Wait what?

From what ive read nvidia spent time working with the devs and have released a driver for it to work properly.

AMD didnt work with them and dont yet have a driver to support it.

Why not just wait for amd to get their ass into gear and release a driver before slinging conspiracy theories into gear?

[mr moose]

OR AMD could just license CUDA already and avoid these issues entirely.

 

They were offered CUDA from nvidia for free back in 2008 but AMD decided to work with Havok instead.  They claimed Havok was superior to CUDA.  In fact physx has been offered to AMD twice now, once before Nvidia started working on it and once when Nvidia offered AMD the opportunity to create there own CUDA drivers allowing any cuda software to work on their machines.

 

In this scenario it is purely AMD faults they cannot support it. 

 

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/82264-why-wont-ati-support-cuda-and-physx

 

 

Nvidia “owns” and controls the future of CUDA, so it’s not open in the “open source” definition, but it’s certainly free. Nvidia tells us it would be thrilled for ATI to develop a CUDA driver for their GPUs.

 

 

it is in fact completely free to download the specs and write CUDA apps, and even completely free to write a CUDA driver to allow your company’s hardware (CPU, GPU, whatever) to run apps written in the CUDA environment.

 

[Humbug]

@Humbug your thoughts?

Good to see the comment from NVIDIA; that's reassuring.

Now to wait for retesting with AMD's next driver.

Hypothetically during GTA V launch if AMD and NVIDIA hadn't released drivers on time everybody would have been screaming about performance because it wasn't great on the old drivers. But both companies got their optimized drivers out in time for launch day and everything was cool.

[kacper]

...

Or they could ask why AMD still refuses to license CUDA which would bring them on par with Nvidia and Intel AND let them access Gameworks on a better level, given how CUDA acceleration is the big thing for it.

...

Are there any detail about licensing CUDA or PhysX for AMD? I can't find anything good .

 

It's goddamn shame that NV and AMD can't cooperate . Without this , PhysX or TressFX won't be widely adopted . 

What strikes me the most is Freesync/Gsync . I used to switch between NV/AMD - now I'll have to be stuck with one team until I'll buy new monitor.

 

Let's just hope that AMD somehow survives . 

[Sidiox]

Wasn't it posted a few weeks back that the driver makers have to fix all the crap devs do? That wasn't from a very good source but if even a little true it means that maybe the Project Cars devs were kinda lazy (like the rest of the market) and then Nvidia managed to fix their crap. AMD wasn't able to. I guess that AMD wasn't able to because they simple didn't have the money to go and put people on the project.

Nvidia is just bigger and can afford to throw some engineers at games to help them optimize. 

I'm not saying this is the ultimate truth but it could have played a part. 

[Dabombinable]

They were offered CUDA from nvidia for free back in 2008 but AMD decided to work with Havok instead.  They claimed Havok was superior to CUDA.  In fact physx has been offered to AMD twice now, once before Nvidia started working on it and once when Nvidia offered AMD the opportunity to create there own CUDA drivers allowing any cuda software to work on their machines.

 

In this scenario it is purely AMD faults they cannot support it. 

 

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/82264-why-wont-ati-support-cuda-and-physx

 

See? AMD is too damn stubborn for their own good. People who blindly support a company that does things this stupid are idiots. It was their own fault for their failure to release a true successor to the Phenom II's, and its their own damn fault for not having PhysX and CUDA. 

[zappian]

Wasn't it posted a few weeks back that the driver makers have to fix all the crap devs do? That wasn't from a very good source but if even a little true it means that maybe the Project Cars devs were kinda lazy (like the rest of the market) and then Nvidia managed to fix their crap. AMD wasn't able to. I guess that AMD wasn't able to because they simple didn't have the money to go and put people on the project.

Nvidia is just bigger and can afford to throw some engineers at games to help them optimize. 

I'm not saying this is the ultimate truth but it could have played a part. 

 

The thing is that we dont know how hard gamework games are to optimize.

 

On average gamework games run much poorer on AMD cards and take a lot more time to optimize and to launch proper drivers.

 

Whats in question here is if AMD has the proper tools to launch drivers and optimizations.

 

If they dont have the necessary tools seems a very silly claim , so I lock you down and dont give you the tools to optimize then proceed to complain the drivers suck lol.

[obi_wan]

The thing is that we dont know how hard gamework games are to optimize.

 

On average gamework games run much poorer on AMD cards and take a lot more time to optimize and to launch proper drivers.

 

Whats in question here is if AMD has the proper tools to launch drivers and optimizations.

 

If they dont have the necessary tools seems a very silly claim , so I lock you down and dont give you the tools to optimize then proceed to complain the drivers suck lol.

[Humbug]

Wasn't it posted a few weeks back that the driver makers have to fix all the crap devs do? That wasn't from a very good source

That is true regardless of the source. A driver is supposed to be an enabler; not something which needs to be rewritten for every program.

Can you think of any other computing field where hardware vendors have to constantly release new drivers in order to ensure that software applications work? In an ideal world where everybody is conformant, and we write to industry standard APIs such as openGL and directX then each layer should do it's job.

One of the goals of Vulkan and DirectX12 is to put the onus back on the game developers; giving them more control over optimization. The driver layer itself will be much thinner and simpler. Some small devs may struggle with this if they are attempting to create their own engine in-house, with limited resources it may be easier to just use DX11 or to license a 3rd party engine. But for engine devs who have the expertise such as Epic, Valve, Dice, Unity etc they view it as a great opportunity.

[mr moose]

Whats in question here is if AMD has the proper tools to launch drivers and optimizations.

 

If the answer is no, it is either because the game dev is deliberately locking them out with unnecessarily hard code or because they don't have the resources as a company to work with every game developer that comes along.  This has little to nothing to do with gameworks or nvidia.

[Guest Kloaked]

The thing is that we dont know how hard gamework games are to optimize.

 

On average gamework games run much poorer on AMD cards and take a lot more time to optimize and to launch proper drivers.

 

Whats in question here is if AMD has the proper tools to launch drivers and optimizations.

 

If they dont have the necessary tools seems a very silly claim , so I lock you down and dont give you the tools to optimize then proceed to complain the drivers suck lol.

No.

[zappian]

If the answer is no, it is either because the game dev is deliberately locking them out with unnecessarily hard code or because they don't have the resources as a company to work with every game developer that comes along.  This has little to nothing to do with gameworks or nvidia.

 

Can we agree thats silly as hell to complain about AMD drivers if they dont have the necessary tools to launch them properly lol.

 

That´s akin to breaking someones legs , putting them in a wheel chair and then proceed to complain they cant walk.

[zMeul]

Can we agree thats silly as hell to complain about AMD drivers if they dont have the necessary tools to launch them properly lol.

 

That´s akin to breaking someones legs , putting them in a wheel chair and then proceed to complain they cant walk.

but is it nVidia's fault, in the end?

no one force Slightly Mad studios to chose GameWorks, the game was crowdfunded, no? so, at no point anyone from the funders raised an eyebrow at that? 'till now?! - that's a very hard thing to swallow

 

also, if you look at the games recommended specs, the HD7xxx series is listed - U WoT m8  :blink:

http://www.techspot.com/review/1000-project-cars-benchmarks/page2.html

 

[Guest Strangerbob]

WOW ! The Graphics Are AMAZING!!

 

 

 

no wonder AMD cant handle it...

 

lel

[mr moose]

Can we agree thats silly as hell to complain about AMD drivers if they dont have the necessary tools to launch them properly lol.

 

That´s akin to breaking someones legs , putting them in a wheel chair and then proceed to complain they cant walk.

 

No, because in this case we don't know why they don't have the tools.  Your analogy would only work if someone else broke the mans legs, but in this case it is just as likely the man broke his own legs.

[Guest Kloaked]

No, because in this case we don't know why they don't have the tools.  Your analogy would only work if someone else broke the mans legs, but in this case it is just as likely the man broke his own legs.

 

 

The team in white is AMD, obviously.

[mr moose]

 

The team in white is AMD, obviously.

 

Why do they wear helmets and should pads?

[Guest Kloaked]

Why do they wear helmets and should pads?

 

HA

 

GOT EEEEEEM

[Syntaxvgm]

 

The team in white is AMD, obviously.

...the ravens?

Why do they wear helmets and should pads?

Football is a game where people smack heads. Some of the players are like twice the size of rugby players. All that padding and they still get brain damage. 

 

Plus they generally have teeth on this side of the pond, they like to keep em. 

[Guest Kloaked]

...the ravens?

 

I don't pay attention to sports. I'd rather play them.

 

Same thing with games (on Twitch)

[Syntaxvgm]

I don't pay attention to sports. I'd rather play them.

 

Same thing with games (on Twitch)

fair point 

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

...the ravens?

Football is a game where people smack heads. Some of the players are like twice the size of rugby players. All that padding and they still get brain damage. 

 

Plus they generally have teeth on this side of the pond, they like to keep em. 

that's no football, that's american soccer, real football involves a real ball played by foot. 

[obi_wan]

Stop it already.This is turning into a flame war

[mr moose]

...the ravens?

Football is a game where people smack heads. Some of the players are like twice the size of rugby players. All that padding and they still get brain damage. 

 

Plus they generally have teeth on this side of the pond, they like to keep em. 

 

Is it like this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlG3qqtWNy8

[zappian]

Well I think its lock time for this thread.