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Victorious Secret

Project CARS devs address AMD performance issues, AMD drivers to blame entirely, PhysX runs on CPU only, no GPU involvement whatsoever.

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If find this funny given how overhyped this game was, and now people are making comments like "meh".


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Summary:

diagram_zpsqaq0halj.png

The unfortunate truth. This is just an instance of AMD not wanting to do their part, even though in a perfect world none of this would matter if devs optimized their code.


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Summary:

diagram_zpsqaq0halj.png

The unfortunate truth. This is just an instance of AMD not wanting to do their part, even though in a perfect world none of this would matter if devs optimized their code.

How do you propose a dev optimizes it's code without help from the GPU engineers?  GPU manufacturers should be providing support for their products, given their product is hardware that won't sell unless it is utilised well by software this product support is necessary. Sadly it seems from this article that AMD can't see that or don't have the resources for it right now.


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Wait, this is an Nvidia sponsored game? And here I was getting my pitch fork ready against AMD. You mean people are wondering why AMD didn't work with them when they will have Nvidia plastered all over their game? Why the fuck would AMD (or Nvidia) send their engineers out to help a company with their game only to have the name of the competitor plastered all over the game? Are people naive enough to dream of a Utopia where rival companies come together and sing Kumbaya and optimize their games? Sounds like a pointless thread to me. The issues will eventually be fixed with driver updates. Nothing to see here.

 

You say that like AMD and Nvidia have never both worked on the same game.

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You say that like AMD and Nvidia have never both worked on the same game.

How many of them are there? Did AMD work with Nvidia on Watch Dogs or Far Cry 4? Did Nvidia work with AMD on BF4 or BF Hardline? This is nothing more than manufactured outrage.


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How do you propose a dev optimizes it's code without help from the GPU engineers?  GPU manufacturers should be providing support for their products, given their product is hardware that won't sell unless it is utilised well by software this product support is necessary. Sadly it seems from this article that AMD can't see that or don't have the resources for it right now.

I'm obviously no expert on graphical optimization, but I'd assume better high level API's and better training could help. I'm actually a programmer, and I just finished working on a project with someone who has lots of confidence in their programming, but no skill to back it up, and before I could realize what was going on this guy had practically created the most overly complex worst performing code (that was still marginally functional) I've ever see. By then, it was already in use and higher-ups told me I couldn't change it because they were scared it was going to break it even more. For instance, I found several definitions for the same class, none of which actually ended up being used. I'm not perfect, but I'm pretty sure that code made my eyes bleed. Nobody else knows how bad it really is, and as a result he can get away with it. Although I deeply hope similar things aren't happening for most devs, I wouldn't be surprised if it was. 


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How many of them are there? Did AMD work with Nvidia on Watch Dogs or Far Cry 4? Did Nvidia work with AMD on BF4 or BF Hardline? This is nothing more than manufactured outrage.

 

They didn't "work with Nvidia", they worked with the developers. Yes, for practically every game there needs to be some communication between the GPU manufacturer and the game developers to work on optimizations if need be.

 

Go take a look at any Gaming Evolved title and then compare performance between the two vendors.

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For me, i've had more Nvidia driver issues than with ATi/AMD drivers. A lot of people tend to refer back to when ATi stopped updating drivers for a while, and users ended up making their own. But they've come a long way since AMD took over. 

 

Also, ATi cards tend to have more frequent driver updates.

 

And on a final note, the developers making Project Cars don't even look that good imo.  They're a consolefag game developer, that happens to do port-overs to pc.

Again, wouldn't really know, don't know much about drivers, never really had any problems with them. Only problem I've ever had with AMD was the APU I bought being so completely shitty that I could barely play BF4, with a GTX 660 running as the graphics card. Complete "cpu" bottleneck.

 

It's literally in the quotes from the developer in the OP. I don't know anything about drivers either, but it's apparent that AMD didn't give Project Cars any attention.

 

It IS a bit hard to blame them, considering they're the current underdog as far as GPU and CPU manufacturing goes. Although I blame that on their obsession with APU's, which in my opinion are a waste of time right now. What they should be doing, is R&D'ing the technology, but not wasting money manufacturing it, because currently they don't really compete that well. They should aim for 980 equivalent performance, with an APU+graphics card in dual graphics mode, with a cost less than that of the 980. That would put them back on the map.

 

Seriously, why not skip a generation? Put that time in money into R&D.

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They didn't "work with Nvidia", they worked with the developers. Yes, for practically every game there needs to be some communication between the GPU manufacturer and the game developers to work on optimizations if need be.

 

Go take a look at any Gaming Evolved title and then compare performance between the two vendors.

You know what I meant. I'm not sure what you're getting at asking me to look at any Gaming Evolved title and comparing performance, Not only do you need to be more specific, you also need to tell me how that supports your point. How many games have they worked on together? Wishful thinking of wanting different devs to sing Kumbaya and work together with a dev to get the best optimization while the game carries the opponent's banner is completely ignoring what happens in reality.


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You know what I meant. I'm not sure what you're getting at asking me to look at any Gaming Evolved title and comparing performance, Not only do you need to be more specific, you also need to tell me how that supports your point. How many games have they worked on together? Wishful thinking of wanting different devs to sing Kumbaya and work together with a dev to get the best optimization while the game carries the opponent's banner is completely ignoring what happens in reality.

 

I think his point is that Gaming Evolved titles still ran fine on NVIDIA hardware. So people scream "NVIDIA Gameworks shenanigans," but yet all Gaming Evolved titles run fine on NVIDIA hardware. 

 

Remember when AMD Never Settle bundles had beast triple A titles a few years ago:

 

Sleeping Dogs

Hitman Absolution

Far Cry 3

Crysis 3

Tomb Raider

Bioshock Infinite

Far Cry Blood Dragon

 

These all ran exceptionally well on NVIDIA hardware, I know personally because I played all of them on NVIDIA hardware. You can even look at benches and see that this is the case.


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You know what I meant. I'm not sure what you're getting at asking me to look at any Gaming Evolved title and comparing performance, Not only do you need to be more specific, you also need to tell me how that supports your point. How many games have they worked on together? Wishful thinking of wanting different devs to sing Kumbaya and work together with a dev to get the best optimization while the game carries the opponent's banner is completely ignoring what happens in reality.

To be fair, a Dev shouldn't be carrying a banner for one company. While yes, they may get paid to do it, it also restricts their audience. It's the same old story with EVERYTHING these days. In reality "walled garden" = smaller audience, and nothing more than an attempt to create a monopoly.

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You know what I meant. I'm not sure what you're getting at asking me to look at any Gaming Evolved title and comparing performance, Not only do you need to be more specific, you also need to tell me how that supports your point. How many games have they worked on together? Wishful thinking of wanting different devs to sing Kumbaya and work together with a dev to get the best optimization while the game carries the opponent's banner is completely ignoring what happens in reality.

 

Holy shit man, stop with the "Wishful thinking of wanting different devs to sing Kumbaya and work together with a dev...".

 

They're not working along side each other. The devs of Project Cars were trying to get with AMD to get their drivers to work better on AMD cards, and this happens with other games as well. Even though you see "Nvidia: The Way It's Meant To Be Played" on an intro screen for a game doesn't mean those devs didn't work with AMD to get some optimizations and fixes done on AMD's side.

 

It's not AMD and Nvidia holding hands and running through the meadow to meet the devs, so please turn that down a bit.

 

If AMD and Nvidia never worked on the same games, then there'd be a huge gap in performance between the two, especially on mainstream titles from big publishers. I even explored the whole "Gameworks cripples AMD cards" spiel that AMD fangirls like to spew out everywhere and came to the conclusion that they're full of it (see my signature). Ubisoft even talked about working with AMD to get their game to work properly on AMD cards because tons of people were having issues playing Ass Creed: Unity (go figure, since everyone was/probably still are) regardless of that game being a Gameworks title.

 

All this BS about AMD being all about the community just keeps turning into more and more BS with things like ignoring the development of Project Cars and their devs even reaching out to them.

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I think his point is that Gaming Evolved titles still ran fine on NVIDIA hardware. So people scream "NVIDIA Gameworks shenanigans," but yet all Gaming Evolved titles run fine on NVIDIA hardware. 

 

Remember when Never Settle bundles had beast triple A titles a few years ago:

 

Sleeping Dogs

Hitman Absolution

Far Cry 3

Crysis 3

Tomb Raider

Bioshock Infinite

Far Cry Blood Dragon

 

These all ran exceptionally well on NVIDIA hardware, I know personally because I played all of them on NVIDIA hardware. You can even look at benches and see that this is the case.

So, in other words, he tried to support his point with a factoid. Do we wish that devs worked together? Sure. Do they? NOPE.

Let's stop for a minute, and instead of thinkinig like gamers put yourselves in the shoes of the decision makers of either company: Why the fuck would you send your people over to help a dev make their game if they're only going to give your competitor's recognition and not you? If the game turns out crappy you get to use slogans like "Nvidia, the way it's not meant to be played" or "AMD: Gaming Devolved". If the game turns out fine, but doesn't work run fine on yours, you fix it later with a driver update, you know, the same shit that's literally been happening forever, but for some reason is now outrageous to some people because reasons.


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Holy shit man, stop with the "Wishful thinking of wanting different devs to sing Kumbaya and work together with a dev...".

 

They're not working along side each other. The devs of Project Cars were trying to get with AMD to get their drivers to work better on AMD cards, and this happens with other games as well. Even though you see "Nvidia: The Way It's Meant To Be Played" on an intro screen for a game doesn't mean those devs didn't work with AMD to get some optimizations and fixes done on AMD's side.

 

It's not AMD and Nvidia holding hands and running through the meadow to meet the devs, so please turn that down a bit.

 

If AMD and Nvidia never worked on the same games, then there'd be a huge gap in performance between the two, especially on mainstream titles from big publishers. I even explored the whole "Gameworks cripples AMD cards" spiel that AMD fangirls like to spew out everywhere and came to the conclusion that they're full of it (see my signature). Ubisoft even talked about working with AMD to get their game to work properly on AMD cards because tons of people were having issues playing Ass Creed: Unity (go figure, since everyone was/probably still are) regardless of that game being a Gameworks title.

 

All this BS about AMD being all about the community just keeps turning into more and more BS with things like ignoring the development of Project Cars and their devs even reaching out to them.

Why do I suddenly think Star Citizen is going to have some serious problems at launch?

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I think his point is that Gaming Evolved titles still ran fine on NVIDIA hardware. So people scream "NVIDIA Gameworks shenanigans," but yet all Gaming Evolved titles run fine on NVIDIA hardware. 

 

Remember when Never Settle bundles had beast triple A titles a few years ago:

 

Sleeping Dogs

Hitman Absolution

Far Cry 3

Crysis 3

Tomb Raider

Bioshock Infinite

Far Cry Blood Dragon

 

These all ran exceptionally well on NVIDIA hardware, I know personally because I played all of them on NVIDIA hardware. You can even look at benches and see that this is the case.

 

But gaming evolved titles does not use closed proprietary middleware, so the comparison is fundamentally flawed. Tomb Raider did use TressFX, but NVidia has full access to the source code of TressFx.Devs are not allowed to share/show a single line of code of GameWorks to AMD. Unlike NVidia, AMD does not have prior history of sabotaging performance on the competition. The same cannot be said of NVidia.


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I understand that they might be annoyed right now with many AMD customers complaining, but when a dev says retarded fucking shit like "Oh AMD sucks look at the consoles right #PCMR!" I generally loose any interest in buying your fucking game for good, even if AMD eventually addresses things on a future driver.


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To be fair, a Dev shouldn't be carrying a banner for one company. While yes, they may get paid to do it, it also restricts their audience. It's the same old story with EVERYTHING these days. In reality "walled garden" = smaller audience, and nothing more than an attempt to create a monopoly.

I agree with you, but a corporation cares more about their bottom line. Corporations are not charities. Even their good deeds are nothing but PR.


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What is the issue? it runs fine on a 290x I get 50 fps at 3440 x1440


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I agree with you, but a corporation cares more about their bottom line. Corporations are not charities. Even their good deeds are nothing but PR.

Wider audience = more customers = more money in reality.

 

Just like the apple streaming music thing. People want to buy music, they will buy music, if they have no money to buy music, they can listen over stream and generate profit for that company just the same, the difference is the up front price to the customer. I re-iterate my analogy, a walled garden is like this

 

*customer offers company a cookie*

*company slaps cookie out of customers hand, and yells "I want a box of cookies, or I'll starve"*

 

*logic*

 

They could sell their product EVERYWHERE and saturate the market, but instead, they'd rather get a higher price per unit (and in the end sell less units, meaning they make less money) and tell the customers "NO. YOU BUY IT HERE, FOR THIS PRICE, BECAUSE WE SAID SO". It makes NO sense in the online world.

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So, in other words, he tried to support his point with a factoid. Do we wish that devs worked together? Sure. Do they? NOPE.

Let's stop for a minute, and instead of thinkinig like gamers put yourselves in the shoes of the decision makers of either company: Why the fuck would you send your people over to help a dev make their game if they're only going to give your competitor's recognition and not you? If the game turns out crappy you get to use slogans like "Nvidia, the way it's not meant to be played" or "AMD: Gaming Devolved". If the game turns out fine, but doesn't work run fine on yours, you fix it later with a driver update, you know, the same shit that's literally been happening forever, but for some reason is now outrageous to some people because reasons.

 

Like I said, both AMD and Nvidia will work with the same developers to get their hardware to work better on the games. Crysis 3, Bioshock: Infinite and so on. Yes, this has been happening forever, but your words were "You mean people are wondering why AMD didn't work with them when they will have Nvidia plastered all over their game?"

 

But gaming evolved titles does not use closed proprietary middleware, so the comparison is fundamentally flawed. Tomb Raider did use TressFX, but NVidia has full access to the source code of TressFx.Devs are not allowed to share/show a single line of code of GameWorks to AMD. Unlike NVidia, AMD does not have prior history of sabotaging performance on the competition. The same cannot be said of NVidia.

 

Nvidia does not sabotage performance. See my signature.

 

EDIT: you were one of the ones I made that for, holy shit. Well this is going to go well..

 

I understand that they might be annoyed right now with many AMD customers complaining, but when a dev says retarded fucking shit like "Oh AMD sucks look at the consoles right #PCMR!" I generally loose any interest in buying your fucking game for good, even if AMD eventually addresses things on a future driver.

 

That's not even what's going on or what was said by the developer. You're misinterpreting it.

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I understand that they might be annoyed right now with many AMD customers complaining, but when a dev says retarded fucking shit like "Oh AMD sucks look at the consoles right #PCMR!" I generally loose any interest in buying your fucking game for good, even if AMD eventually addresses things on a future driver.

I agree. I don't really understand the point in just blaming them. I don't see any devs supported by AMD to just blame nvidia. Too be honest, it's nvidia supported games that ruined the industry for me (such as Watchdogs and FarCry4 and Unity). Haven't even seen an AMD game dev to speak up about Nvidia's lack of interest in Mantle... 

Wouldn't be suprised if Project Cars fell off their radar... I completely forgot about it too. >.<

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Holy shit man, stop with the "Wishful thinking of wanting different devs to sing Kumbaya and work together with a dev...".

 

They're not working along side each other. The devs of Project Cars were trying to get with AMD to get their drivers to work better on AMD cards, and this happens with other games as well. Even though you see "Nvidia: The Way It's Meant To Be Played" on an intro screen for a game doesn't mean those devs didn't work with AMD to get some optimizations and fixes done on AMD's side.

 

It's not AMD and Nvidia holding hands and running through the meadow to meet the devs, so please turn that down a bit.

 

If AMD and Nvidia never worked on the same games, then there'd be a huge gap in performance between the two, especially on mainstream titles from big publishers. I even explored the whole "Gameworks cripples AMD cards" spiel that AMD fangirls like to spew out everywhere and came to the conclusion that they're full of it (see my signature). Ubisoft even talked about working with AMD to get their game to work properly on AMD cards because tons of people were having issues playing Ass Creed: Unity (go figure, since everyone was/probably still are) regardless of that game being a Gameworks title.

 

All this BS about AMD being all about the community just keeps turning into more and more BS with things like ignoring the development of Project Cars and their devs even reaching out to them.

You're contradicting yourself. If AMD did actually have a hand in the development process, Watch Dogs and Ass Creed Unity would not have had issues running on AMD cards at launch. I also don't see why there would be huge performance gaps with each game release. It's not like AMD or Nvidia literally give new tech to each dev everytime they use their tools to make a game.

 

Take BF4, BF Hardline and Dragon Age Inquision for example. After BF4 came out, Nvidia got their performance on that game up to speed with driver updates. With BF Hard line and Inquisition, it wasn't new tech. So improving drivers for those games wasn't a huge feat since they had already laid down some ground work with BF4.

 

This happens with EVERY PC game. Dev solicits a vendor for their tools to help make their game. Game releases. Competitor upgrades drivers to work better with said game. People are seriously outraged over something that has been going on since forever and is never going to change.


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Nvidia does not sabotage performance. See my signature.

 

EDIT: you were one of the ones I made that for, holy shit. Well this is going to go well..

 

Yeah, I clicked on it to check it out. My post, your post is an answer to in your link, has all the relevant links, you ignore in your post. Primarily Nvidia's DX11 upgrade for Crysis 2, with the worlds most detailed concrete slab, hammering amd cards, and the example I used earlier in this thread, about Batman Origins. All ignored.

 

Then of course the debacle of NVidia making PhysX x87 instruction set, which made it useless on all CPU's. For people not understanding the problem with x87, it is so extremely shitty, that intel GAVE mmx technology to AMD for free, just to remove x87 from the industry. Nvidia does not have a good record about this.


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You're contradicting yourself. If AMD did actually have a hand in the development process, Watch Dogs and Ass Creed Unity would not have had issues running on AMD cards at launch. I also don't see why there would be huge performance gaps with each game release. It's not like AMD or Nvidia literally give new tech to each dev everytime they use their tools to make a game.

Everyone was having issues, it wasn't just Nvidia users. Regardless, Ubisoft even made an announcement soon after Unity was released that they were going to get with AMD to see what they could do about the issues that were specific to AMD users.

 

Take BF4, BF Hardline and Dragon Age Inquision for example. After BF4 came out, Nvidia got their performance on that game up to speed with driver updates. With BF Hard line and Inquisition, it wasn't new tech. So improving drivers for those games wasn't a huge feat since they had already laid down some ground work with BF4.

Okay?

 

This happens with EVERY PC game. Dev solicits a vendor for their tools to help make their game. Game releases. Competitor upgrades drivers to work better with said game. People are seriously outraged over something that has been going on since forever and is never going to change.

Lol, here we go again. The repeating circle of an argument on LTT is getting annoying.

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If the game turns out crappy you get to use slogans like "Nvidia, the way it's not meant to be played" or "AMD: Gaming Devolved". If the game turns out fine, but doesn't work run fine on yours, you fix it later with a driver update, you know, the same shit that's literally been happening forever, but for some reason is now outrageous to some people because reasons.

 

 

 

This happens with EVERY PC game. Dev solicits a vendor for their tools to help make their game. Game releases. Competitor upgrades drivers to work better with said game. People are seriously outraged over something that has been going on since forever and is never going to change.

 

I'm going with this same opinion too. Issues getting blown out of proportion when this kind of thing happens on almost every new games launched. 

 

Edit:Also I still think this game is a bit overhyped except for the graphics department. The AI are really dumb from what I can tell.

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