LGBT community

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, Nowak said:

I'm far from the only one like this, you know.

Yeah, and they're causing problems for other people.

[Nowak]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Yeah, and they're causing problems for other people.

How? By expecting to be able to work? You know, a human right?

[Lady Fitzgerald]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

You're not even remotely oppressed. We're on the same playing field in the eyes of government, business, etc.

 

The only thing people like you are doing now is trying to make things worse for everyone else.

Since ignorance is bliss, you must be very blissful when it comes to LGBT rights and discrimination.

 

Granted, things are better for LGBTs in the SSA (Squabbling States of America; we never have been truly united) than they were, say, ten years ago but discrimination and hatred against us is still alive and well (and actually growing). We currently have a Federal Government that is actively working to erase our very existence, many State Governments are doing the same, we still have a higher suicide and murder victim rates than straight people (especially among young LGBTs), etc.

 

Unless you have walked in our shoes for a while, like we do every day of our lives, you will have no clue what rights we do not have and the discrimination, harassment, and danger we face everyday.

 

For us, pride is the opposite of shame for being who we were born as, the same as it was for African Americans when they were fighting for their legal civil rights back in the sixties (btw, now legally having those rights still doesn't mean they always actually have them). Straight people have never faced discrimination and hatred for being straight unless it was from people who they mistreated. 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Nowak said:

human right?

The legal right to work is only that the government cannot impede your ability to work.

 

Otherwise, you have zero right to employment.

2 minutes ago, Nowak said:

How? By expecting to be able to work?

By refusing to work unless it is their dream job under their dream conditions, and instead creating white noise to drown out real issues and when it gets extreme enough, rioting.

 

2 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

We currently have a Federal Government that is actively working to erase our very existence

False.

2 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

many State Governments are doing the same

False.

2 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

we still have a higher suicide and murder victim rates than straight people

Murder rates are still exceptionally underrepresantative compred to other groups of people, like black or hispanic people.

 

And the high suicide rates aren't due to ficticious oppression, it's due to mental disorder.

[Citadelen]

3 hours ago, poochyena said:

explain
more specially, why lgbt pride does make sense.

The way I see it, it's a celebration of the milestones made in LGBT rights, (decriminalisation, marriage equality etc). Straight people haven't experienced institutional discrimination based on sexuality, hence there's nothing to overcome, meaning no need for straight pride. Someone can be proud of what they are (straight, for example), but having a specific event based on it as an alternative to gay pride doesn't make sense.

[Commodus]

8 minutes ago, Citadelen said:

The way I see it, it's a celebration of the milestones made in LGBT rights, (decriminalisation, marriage equality etc). Straight people haven't experienced institutional discrimination based on sexuality, hence there's nothing to overcome, meaning no need for straight pride. Someone can be proud of what they are (straight, for example), but having a specific event based on it as an alternative to gay pride doesn't make sense.

It reminds me of how racists whine that there's a Black History Month but not a White History Month.  Folks... White History Month is every other month of the year.  North American and European cultures tend to treat white, straight people as the "default" and portray most things from their perspective.  You don't need to hold a special event to celebrate white or straight culture because it's already celebrated around the clock.

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, Commodus said:

North American and European cultures tend to treat white, straight people as the "default" and portray most things from their perspective.

Probably because they're the vast majority.

 

Africa does the same with black people.

Asia does the same with Asians.

Latin America does the same with Hispanic people.

[Nowak]

15 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

By refusing to work unless it is their dream job under their dream conditions, and instead creating white noise to drown out real issues and when it gets extreme enough, rioting.

Honestly at this point I'm so desperate for money I'd work just about anything (unless said work involves just watching Windows install several times a day). It's why I applied at CVS.

 

I got turned down, which honestly... sucks. Maybe the Best Buy in North Attleborough is hiring tho. I'll have to check this week.

[poochyena]

16 minutes ago, Citadelen said:

The way I see it, it's a celebration of the milestones made in LGBT rights, (decriminalisation, marriage equality etc). Straight people haven't experienced institutional discrimination based on sexuality, hence there's nothing to overcome, meaning no need for straight pride. Someone can be proud of what they are (straight, for example), but having a specific event based on it as an alternative to gay pride doesn't make sense.

I'm not sure were you got the idea that a no straight people have ever been discriminated against. It sounds like oppression olympics and tribalism. "Our people have been oppressed more than your people!"

 

11 minutes ago, Commodus said:

It reminds me of how racists whine that there's a Black History Month but not a White History Month.  Folks... White History Month is every other month of the year. 

 

How is wanting equality racist? Thinking someone deserves special recognition simply for having a specific skin color is racist. I'm also not sure what "White History Month is every other month of the year." means.

 

12 minutes ago, Commodus said:

North American and European cultures tend to treat white, straight people as the "default"

because it is....

 

[Nowak]

Just now, poochyena said:

I'm not sure were you got the idea that a no straight people have ever been discriminated against. It sounds like oppression olympics and tribalism. "Our people have been oppressed more than your people!"

Could you give examples of straight discrimination? And I don't mean some nobody on Twitter or Facebook saying "lmao straights suck".

[Citadelen]

14 minutes ago, Commodus said:

It reminds me of how racists whine that there's a Black History Month but not a White History Month.  Folks... White History Month is every other month of the year.  North American and European cultures tend to treat white, straight people as the "default" and portray most things from their perspective.  You don't need to hold a special event to celebrate it because it's already celebrated around the clock.

I have a complex relationship with BHM. On the one hand it's important that black people feel represented (even if they're the minority), but on the other hand I think where it's appropriate and relevant, history as a subject should become more granular and modular, allowing people to learn about whichever areas they want to learn about.

 

For example we had to learn about the civil rights movement, cold war, boom/bust periods, and while some will find these areas interesting I'm really not that bothered tbh, I'd much rather learn about the late Roman Empire, or go in-depth in the Hundred Years War, or Nazism as an ideology (as opposed brown just skimming over WW2). So on the otherhand if people wanted to learn about, say, the Kingdom of Mali or the history of the Congo then they could.

History, and how it's taught, is a passion of mine, if you can't tell. 

 

8 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Probably because they're the vast majority.

 

Africa does the same with black people.

Asia does the same with Asians.

Latin America does the same with Hispanic people.

I do have to agree with you for the most part, it makes sense that the world is seen from the perspective of the dominant culture, least said country loose what makes them, them. Though referring to my point above, people should be able to learn about their heritage via the state. Assimilation is incredibly important, though to expect people not to have a syncretic approach with their own culture to it is asking far too much, I believe.

 

3 minutes ago, poochyena said:

I'm not sure were you got the idea that a no straight people have ever been discriminated against. It sounds like oppression olympics and tribalism. "Our people have been oppressed more than your people!"

I specifically worded my reply to avoid that misconception, stop being disingenuous and making farfetched interpretations. I specified institutional discrimination, like how Alan Turning was forced to be chemically castrated for being gay. Pride celebrates such a law being overturned.

[poochyena]

4 minutes ago, Nowak said:

Could you give examples of straight discrimination? And I don't mean some nobody on Twitter or Facebook saying "lmao straights suck".

Here is just an example of my personal experience on okcupid. 3 different profiles. Also, like you said, lots of examples on twitter and facebook of people saying stuff like "lmao straights suck"

 

1 minute ago, Citadelen said:

Pride celebrates such a law being overturned.

 

But why? It just seems so cumbersome to women pride, black pride, gay pride, bi pride, trans pride, non-land owner pride, under 21 pride, non-religious pride, etc. Every single group of people have gained rights over the years. Why not just human rights pride or whatever? Why specifically lgbt pride?

[Nowak]

Just now, poochyena said:

Here is just an example of my personal experience on okcupid. 3 different profiles. Also, like you said, lots of examples on twitter and facebook of people saying stuff like "lmao straights suck"

Okay, so a dating site. So, is it wrong for people to have preferences about who they sleep with?

[Citadelen]

2 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Here is just an example of my personal experience on okcupid. 3 different profiles. Also, like you said, lots of examples on twitter and facebook of people saying stuff like "lmao straights suck"

People like that are cunts, I never implied straight people never faced discrimination because I had exactly what you've just shown in mind as examples of it, I was talking about institutionalised discrimination before it was derailed.

 

@Nowak Please don't defend those people, there are ways to express a preference without being a discriminatory twat, @poochyena made a valid point.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Citadelen

[Commodus]

Just now, Drak3 said:

Probably because they're the vast majority.

 

Africa does the same with black people.

Asia does the same with Asians.

Latin America does the same with Hispanic people.

No kidding, Sherlock.  The issue isn't that North American/European media reflects the majority; it's that overly entitled white and straight people whine that being considered the default isn't enough, that whiteness and straightness need special celebrations in order to be 'fair.'  This would be true for other cultures, of course, but it's particularly acute in western culture where this sense of entitlement is particularly loud.

[poochyena]

2 minutes ago, Nowak said:

Okay, so a dating site. So, is it wrong for people to have preferences about who they sleep with?

no, but its discrimination.

 

2 minutes ago, Citadelen said:

People like that are cunts, I never implied straight people never faced discrimination because I had exactly what you've just shown in mind as examples of it, I was talking about institutionalised discrimination before it was derailed.

What difference does it make exactly?

[Nowak]

2 minutes ago, Citadelen said:

@Nowak Please don't defend those people, there are ways to express a preference without being a discriminatory twat, @poochyena made a valid point.

Alright, alright.

[Citadelen]

7 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Here is just an example of my personal experience on okcupid. 3 different profiles. Also, like you said, lots of examples on twitter and facebook of people saying stuff like "lmao straights suck"

 

 

But why? It just seems so cumbersome to women pride, black pride, gay pride, bi pride, trans pride, non-land owner pride, under 21 pride, non-religious pride, etc. Every single group of people have gained rights over the years. Why not just human rights pride or whatever? Why specifically lgbt pride?

Because people want to celebrate it, I personally don't really see the fuss and don't partake in pride parades because I don't care enough to really go, but I see their place and the reasons for their existence, as well as the reasons that straight pride is silly.

 

The difference it makes, is if someone goes around screening ‘Kill the straights’ they're being a twat but we can move on with our lives and they don't really have any power. But when the entire apparatus of state is against you, it can really fuck up your life, an individual oppressing you is minute to an entire state doing it.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Citadelen

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, Citadelen said:

But when the entire apparatus of state is against you,

Which, it isn't.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

Religious freedom is a fundemental right and you have no right to the work or approval of others. These laws protect the rights of others, they don't violate any rights of yours.

 

I know for a fact that you aren't.

It is.

I cannot believe you actually believe all that with all that is happening to LGBTs being in the news.

 

I agree religious freedom is a fundamental and you should be free to worship who and hoever you want but that right stops at the point it infringes on the rights of others. It does not give anyone the right to ram your religion down anyone's throats. it does not give anyone the right to violate anyone else's rights.

 

The right to work means you have the right to be treated equally in employment, including hiring and firing. LGBTs have not, and still are not, been treated equally.

 

When it comes to what Governments have been, and still are, doing to discriminate against LGBTs, you are completely clueless. It most definitely has happened and still happens. Even if I didn't see it in the news, I would still know it because I have experienced it first hand. I would provide references to this but it's painfully obvious you will choose to ignore them because you don't want to know the truth.

 

Btw, when you get your degree in Psychology (I got mine from Abilene Christian College in '71), we can can discuss whether the suicides, etc. are due to mental disorders or not (for the record, they are not).

 

  

[Citadelen]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

Which, it isn't.

Not now of course, did you even read my post and the context it's in?

[poochyena]

4 minutes ago, Citadelen said:

But when the entire apparatus of state is against you, it can really fuck up your life

It just isn't really much of a thing in modern countries. People get punished for anti-gay remarks much more than people get punished for pro-gay remarks. I get being pro-lgbt, i am, its just the more personal being prideful of being lgbt. Being prideful of anything you don't choose is kinda weird to me. meh.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

3 minutes ago, poochyena said:

It just isn't really much of a thing in modern countries. People get punished for anti-gay remarks much more than people get punished for pro-gay remarks. I get being pro-lgbt, i am, its just the more personal being prideful of being lgbt. Being prideful of anything you don't choose is kinda weird to me. meh.

You are still missing the meaning of the term "pride" in this context. It means the opposite of shame.

[WkdPaul]

8 minutes ago, poochyena said:

It just isn't really much of a thing in modern countries. People get punished for anti-gay remarks much more than people get punished for pro-gay remarks. I get being pro-lgbt, i am, its just the more personal being prideful of being lgbt. Being prideful of anything you don't choose is kinda weird to me. meh.

So you're saying you haven't made the link that it's because they're being shammed by most of society, that the pride movement is born?

[poochyena]

7 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

You are still missing the meaning of the term "pride" in this context. It means the opposite of shame.

I don't feel pride or shame towards any part of my self.

 

3 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

So you're saying you haven't made the link that it's because they're being shammed by most of society, that the pride movement is born?

umm