Potential new sponsor, G2A - Yay or nay?

[thorpj]

I dont know and neither does anybody... we can assume they were stolen keys etc which is likely but we dont know for sure

 

Did you buy it through the market place or through G2A? two very different things

Maybe they unknowingly bought stolen keys? maybe they did it on purpose... who knows, maybe Ubisoft or whatsoever were just being dicks, I know somebody who had their key revoked and then had a legit one emailed out a few hours later  and their key still works now - so that key is definitely legit or it would have been revoked again

Publishers know for sure, and they are revoking keys, such as mine which was purchased directly from G2A. I understand the difference between direct and marketplace.

 

As for that person you know. At least for FC, ubisoft revoked keys, then reissued keys (which is what happened to me), out of good faith. I still question why they did that. I bought (unknowingly) an illegitimate key, they should've revoked it and kept it that way.

Still, not complaining.

[fishy]

i bought most of my games trough them, it always went smooth and fast

so i never got the chance to use customer support or their shield service, so can't comment on that

 

my experience with them is very positive and i'd love to see them as sponsor and maybe having some discounts trough LMG or giving you some of the money for the games purchased

atm, there is no way for me to contribute to LMG trough other services, except by directly donating to you, so this would be very welcomed by me

that being said, they do have some fishy (hehe) reputation going around them, so some people who never even used their service are already influenced to believe it's a sketchy website

it's a tough one

[nicklmg]

I don't conveniently have a giant list of sources to provide unfortunately, but you can Google all of this and find it quite easily.

They've frequently been caught selling illegal and stolen keys, and make no effort to assure the legality of what they sell.

Developers and publishers have complained about how businesses like G2A hurt their profits, some indie developers have spoken out about this as well.

TotalBiscuit, who I know employees of LTT (Luke in particular) respect and listen to, has voiced his opinion on G2A occassionally, and it's not positive.

TB has said he's spoken to many developers about G2A and they've all spoken poorly of G2A because games purchased from them don't benefit the dev.

 

He's also said it's unfortunate so many Twitch streamers are partnered with G2A, they don't take the time to research the issues and just see money at take it.

Many streamers have also said G2A has practically harassed them with trying to get sponsorships, G2A has probably contacted half of Twitch regarding sponsorships.

You can often see debates in the Twitch chat of streamers who are sponsored by G2A, it's just a controversial company and isn't something you should want around.

 

Hopefully the community and the votes are enough for you guys to make the right decision.

You can find sources of sellers on G2A selling stolen keys through G2A, but do you have a source that directly links the company itself to the purchase of stolen keys?

 

There is a difference between a seller and a marketplace. No argument that there are stolen keys on their marketplace, but that do not claim to flesh out every seller. ANYONE can go and sell on their marketplace - that is something anyone who shops there should understand. Do you blame Ebay if a seller on their marketplace has stolen wares, or do you blame the seller?

 

Does the sale of an LED strip, bought in bulk and then resold on Amazon, directly benefit the manufacturer or that LED strip? No, that's not how a marketplace works. They're bought in bulk, at which point the manufacturer has been paid their cut of the sale of that product, then they are sold for a profit above that on the marketplace.

 

I guess it's a good thing we do more research than most Twitch streamers, like say, through making a thread on our community forum, asking about community members' experience with the site

 

Anyway, I'm not here to defend G2A - I have no stake in you guys liking or disliking them. I'm here to gain information and community opinions, most of which have been far too negative to instill confidence in the site as a sponsor (in my opinion at least).

 

Can I just ask you one thing, have they ever taken action against sellers of illegitimate keys. And then I mean not just given affected customers a new (hopefully legitimate) key, but taken actions against the ones who sold the keys in the first place

I did not ask about that during the call, but it definitely would be a good question to ask. The have a rating system for sellers, like many marketplaces, which gives purchasers an idea of whether or not they should trust that seller. I THINK they mainly rely on that to eliminate sellers of illegitimate keys.

 

I think by now it's a fairly moot point, as the response from the community has been pretty negative overall.

[Counter-Strike Player]

Hmmmmmmm so this is a company supposedly based in Hong-Kong with a support center in Poland. Interesting.

[ShadowCaptain]

Publishers know for sure, and they are revoking keys, such as mine which was purchased directly from G2A. I understand the difference between direct and marketplace.

 

SOME - not all - there are developers and publishers that actively support the site 

 

I think by now it's a fairly moot point, as the response from the community has been pretty negative overall.

 

I think that is because it is inherently untrusted due to the bad press it has been getting, especially with the couple of stolen key fiascos that have happened involving the site

 

Unless G2A can come here and categorically say their service is legit etc then they will always be untrusted - obviously they cannot speak for the marketplace and that is why they have buy protection to help should a bad trade happen

 

Maybe if you speak to them again, you could ask them to come to the forum, or to a WAN show interview, and explain

[thorpj]

SOME - not all - there are developers and publishers that actively support the site 

 

 

I think that is because it is inherently untrusted due to the bad press it has been getting, especially with the couple of stolen key fiascos that have happened involving the site

 

Unless G2A can come here and categorically say their service is legit etc then they will always be untrusted - obviously they cannot speak for the marketplace and that is why they have buy protection to help should a bad trade happen

 

Maybe if you speak to them again, you could ask them to come to the forum, or to a WAN show interview, and explain

I haven't got a clue why they would. Perhaps they hope that it'll reduce piracy, as they still make a little money from sites such as g2a?

 

If G2A came and told us that they are legit, that would not change a thing. That's like the Microsoft Callers, they'll tell you that they're legit. But they're not. 

 

They can lie, nothing stopping them from doing that.

[nicklmg]

As I said, we dont know where the keys are from - it seems some developers support G2A so its possible that they are legitimately selling those keys

 

We are all basing our opinions on accusations and thoughts- we do not have cold hard facts.. we can only assume what we think. I would like evidence

 

 

Nick, I think the main problem with G2A is we have no assurances or facts on wether the service is legit or not  and what happens with dodgy keys. Are developers supported? are they keys stolen? are they against teams terms of service?

 

Can they clarify anything Perhaps you or Linus or anyone there could try and get the bottom of this once and for al

 

Can we get a G2A spokesman to the forum? or on the WAN show? to answer questions, or to explain things

maybe they can discuss how their business works, how they get keys, how they support developers, what happens with dodgy keys in the marketplace

 

Perhaps if they can explain how their business operates, we would all trust it a lot more and would be happy for them to sponsor LTT

 

Since there are so many unknowns and assumptions about it, it will never be 100% positive

I agree - the main issue is that no one really knows what's going on behind the scenes. I think the fact that they never have done an AMA, despite all of the negative press around them, doesn't bode especially well for them, or for the ways in which they acquire their products... But who am I to say for sure? I don't have any more info than you guys 

 

Given the fact that over 50% of the responses to the poll have been "no," and so much of this thread is filled with negative sentiments about G2A in general, I'm not sure if having them on any of our shows, even to answer questions, is a great idea. As they say, "all press is good press."

[ShadowCaptain]

I agree - the main issue is that no one really knows what's going on behind the scenes. I think the fact that they never have done an AMA, despite all of the negative press around them, doesn't bode especially well for them, or for the ways in which they acquire their products... But who am I to say for sure? I don't have any more info than you guys 

 

Given the fact that over 50% of the responses to the poll have been "no," and so much of this thread is filled with negative sentiments about G2A in general, I'm not sure if having them on any of our shows, even to answer questions, is a great idea. As they say, "all press is good press."

 

 

I am inclined to agree, it is just infuriating to not have the answers. If they were fine, it would be great to use them to save money, but I could not for example risk my steam account being banned or something over dodgy keys, since i have a few thousand £ of games on there

 

I wish they would hold themselves accountable and do the right thing and explain themselves

 

When you see popular big name youtubers telling people to buy games there, it would be dangerous if they were not trustworthy 

[Hunched]

You can find sources of sellers on G2A selling stolen keys through G2A, but do you have a source that directly links the company itself to the purchase of stolen keys?

 

There is a difference between a seller and a marketplace. No argument that there are stolen keys on their marketplace, but that do not claim to flesh out every seller. ANYONE can go and sell on their marketplace - that is something anyone who shops there should understand. Do you blame Ebay if a seller on their marketplace has stolen wares, or do you blame the seller?

 

Does the sale of an LED strip, bought in bulk and then resold on Amazon, directly benefit the manufacturer or that LED strip? No, that's not how a marketplace works. They're bought in bulk, at which point the manufacturer has been paid their cut of the sale of that product, then they are sold for a profit above that on the marketplace.

 

I guess it's a good thing we do more research than most Twitch streamers, like say, through making a thread on our community forum, asking about community members' experience with the site

 

Anyway, I'm not here to defend G2A - I have no stake in you guys liking or disliking them. I'm here to gain information and community opinions, most of which have been far too negative to instill confidence in the site as a sponsor (in my opinion at least).

If I'm going to be completely honest, I don't know all the specifics and details. 

All it took for me to think G2A is bad, is to hear they're constantly involved with illegal copies of games one way or another, it just helps even more that tons of people I respect dislike them too.

You don't hear about this with GOG or Green Man Gaming or Humble Bundle or Bundle Stars or so many other marketplaces you can buy Steam keys from, they're all highly regarded.

 

When you have many large Twitch streamers, TotalBiscuit, other big gaming YouTubers, developers, publishers, etc, all speaking poorly of G2A, the average PC gamers opinion of G2A is going to really struggle to be positive.

If public opinion is what makes or breaks this deal, the case is closed lol.

 

I find it highly unlikely G2A is so disliked all because all of these people and developers I respect just don't know what they're talking about, and that it's all a big misunderstanding and G2A are actually good guys. 

Most of the people who dislike G2A are probably in the same boat I am with that.

Not that I just take all their words and blindly agree with them, I researched a bit about the issues of G2A, I didn't dig insanely deep because seeing G2A is pretty frequently involved with illegal/shady stuff was all I needed to make up my mind.

 

Also, nearly everybody speaking positively about G2A is either sponsored by G2A, or they think just because they can buy stuff from them and it works that they're great.

If all someone cares about is getting a functioning product and couldn't care less about what goes on behind the scenes, G2A is probably a pretty great company to them.

[AxelRantila]

Does the sale of an LED strip, bought in bulk and then resold on Amazon, directly benefit the manufacturer or that LED strip? No, that's not how a marketplace works. They're bought in bulk, at which point the manufacturer has been paid their cut of the sale of that product, then they are sold for a profit above that on the marketplace.

The issue for me is not buying in bulk and reselling it later. Heck, I noticed that the hard drive in my PC was bought in bulk and resold later given the "neutral" packaging it arrived in. The issue is acquiring stuff in bulk illegitimately and reselling it later.

 

Anyhow, thanks for doing some research and at least giving your community a say in this matter Nick.

[VirtualNinja]

I've had no problems with my dealings with G2A.

 

Regarding G2A shield it is insurance you may never need it but for a price it is worthwhile, just incase something does go wrong.

[nicklmg]

I am inclined to agree, it is just infuriating to not have the answers. If they were fine, it would be great to use them to save money, but I could not for example risk my steam account being banned or something over dodgy keys, since i have a few thousand £ of games on there

 

I wish they would hold themselves accountable and do the right thing and explain themselves

 

When you see popular big name youtubers telling people to buy games there, it would be dangerous if they were not trustworthy 

It certainly would be nice!

Personal opinion time:

 

I don't necessarily think G2A is bad, but again, I don't have proof. They're very careful with their messaging (they're a marketplace, not a reseller), and I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that (it can be argued that sellers on the marketplace are taking advantage of market conditions, buying from poor regions and selling to rich nations, but that is not illegal), but I don't necessarily think it's a line we want to walk right now, as it seems like a pretty treacherous one at times lol.

[ShadowCaptain]

It certainly would be nice!

Personal opinion time:

 

I don't necessarily think G2A is bad, but again, I don't have proof. They're very careful with their messaging (they're a marketplace, not a reseller), and I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that (it can be argued that they're taking advantage of market conditions, buying from poor regions and selling to rich nations, but that is not illegal), but I don't necessarily think it's a line we want to walk right now, as it seems like a pretty treacherous one at times lol.

 

 

Yeah I am not sure its right for LTT I agree with you there

[nicklmg]

If I'm going to be completely honest, I don't know all the specifics and details. 

All it took for me to think G2A is bad, is to hear they're constantly involved with illegal copies of games one way or another, it just helps even more that tons of people I respect dislike them too.

You don't hear about this with GOG or Green Man Gaming or Humble Bundle or Bundle Stars or so many other marketplaces you can buy Steam keys from, they're all highly regarded.

 

When you have many large Twitch streamers, TotalBiscuit, other big gaming YouTubers, developers, publishers, etc, all speaking poorly of G2A, the average PC gamers opinion of G2A is going to really struggle to be positive.

If public opinion is what makes or breaks this deal, the case is closed lol.

 

I find it highly unlikely G2A is so disliked all because all of these people and developers I respect just don't know what they're talking about, and that it's all a big misunderstanding and G2A are actually good guys. 

Most of the people who dislike G2A are probably in the same boat I am with that.

Not that I just take all their words and blindly agree with them, I researched a bit about the issues of G2A, I didn't dig insanely deep because seeing G2A is pretty frequently involved with illegal/shady stuff was all I needed to make up my mind.

 

Also, nearly everybody speaking positively about G2A is either sponsored by G2A, or they think just because they can buy stuff from them and it works that they're great.

If all someone cares about is getting a functioning product and couldn't care less about what goes on behind the scenes, G2A is probably a pretty great company to them.

Once again, we need to make the distinction between a marketplace and a reseller. GOG, Green Man Gaming, and Humble Bundle are all resellers. They acquire keys in bulk and sell to the public through their platform. G2A is a marketplace. They give buyers and sellers a platform to do business, but for the most part they do not sell the items themselves. Would you blame Ebay for contraband merchandise being sold on their marketplace, or would you blame the seller? I think it's a big short-sighted to think that a site like Ebay or G2A would have the time to check proof of acquisition for every single product sold on their marketplace.

Knowledgeable people in the industry disliking what they do does not mean that what they do is wrong, or even illegal. However, like you said, it does influence the community's opinion on them, which in turn influences our decision of whether or not we should do business with them.

 

The issue for me is not buying in bulk and reselling it later. Heck, I noticed that the hard drive in my PC was bought in bulk and resold later given the "neutral" packaging it arrived in. The issue is acquiring stuff in bulk illegitimately and reselling it later.

 

Anyhow, thanks for doing some research and at least giving your community a say in this matter Nick.

In that example I was just trying to illustrate the conditions of a reseller, since someone was comparing game devs not directly benefiting from sales by a reseller to piracy...

 

Of course, you guys give us the opportunity to do what we do... We would be stupid not to take what you guys have to say into account in decisions like this.

[darwin006]

I personally have never bought anything from them given the fact that they obtain the keys in a less then 100% legit way. From reading what some people have said in the thread they have ok customer service but that is not enough for me to ever buy anything from them.

[nicklmg]

One more point of clarification - I don't think that stealing games is "right" or "ok" in any sense. I just think we should assign blame where the blame is due - on the people buying stolen game codes in bulk and selling them to the public, not on the marketplace facilitating the transaction. Maybe I'm just splitting hairs at that point though...

[Sharif]

I never Bought anything from them but lot of shady news about them 

[GlassBomb]

I for one wouldn't want to see LTT associated with a grey market. Since it is just that, in the grey area.

I don't know. But I can understand why LTT wants to make business with them.

[NumLock21]

Don't want to loose your current sponsors or any future sponsors over this one. Have anyone seen a video sponsor by ebay or craiglist?

[cyphon21]

You guys are being pretty silly. Amazon is grey market by definition and you sure as hell support them pretty well!... Just recently it was noted some items they have for sale are inadvertantly supporting certian groups as well that support some pretty awful views.

 

I've used G2A once. Did my research, and didn't buy from a shady seller but bought from G2A directly. There were a LOT of comments about the keys being working, and so I took a shot. Saved me a good chunk of money as well on a game I personally don't think deserved the amount they were asking retail. There is a lot of reasons why people continue to use G2A, and to me it seems like they do try to make "some" effort to make it a solid business model. May not be for everyone, but it sure is a decent start.

 

The insurance stuff? Yeah, who DOESN'T do this now a days. Look at Best Buy, they are HATED on this business plan, but they still do it? Why.. it makes sense for their business. Why not? What harm is it doing? You don't need to buy it, you're not forced. So ignore it if that's your perogative. Just like it was mentioned, car insurance is the same thing. Different model and product, but sure is the same thing. You will see insurance companies declining claims as well, just like G2A might not have grounds to protect you on a buy. Same story, different pile.

 

Anyways, I voted for. I think the more people that use their services, and use them right (like Amazon, eBay etc) then why not throw their name up on the site? No one is forcing you to believe in the company 100% behind. Both you and Linus should know that there are certain aspects of any company you sponsors that you won't agree with totally, but still like having them as a sponsor. It's not like you're getting a drug dealer to sponsor you here.

 

Sorry for ranting . Thanks for reading.

[The_Strict_Nein]

Bought a Windows 7 key through them and the process was excellent with a lot of support. I was connected to a live chat with a guy and he told me where to go to enter my code before posting it in the chat and ensuring the key activated correctly.

 

Isolated case I know.

[Anarchyz11]

From an objective side of things:  Buying things from them is probably pretty safe, and if a code is bad, it's the seller's fault, G2A will protect you.  I have no isse with them.


From the context 90% of people will see:  LTT would be supporting a company that sells keys stolen from innocent, starving children in Africa bought for them by their dying Grandmother.

[Nico123473]

@nicklmg I've never used them, but i don't really care  

[Yoinkerman]

I agree - the main issue is that no one really knows what's going on behind the scenes. I think the fact that they never have done an AMA, despite all of the negative press around them, doesn't bode especially well for them, or for the ways in which they acquire their products... But who am I to say for sure? I don't have any more info than you guys

Given the fact that over 50% of the responses to the poll have been "no," and so much of this thread is filled with negative sentiments about G2A in general, I'm not sure if having them on any of our shows, even to answer questions, is a great idea. As they say, "all press is good press."

I've bought some Windows keys from them, and a few d2 copies, and they all worked fine. Even paid for the "insurance" but whatever ncix does the same thing with their shipping/doa insurance. It was still 1/3 retail.

I'm a little on the fence, because selling keys from different regions is kind of a grey area, but this is 2015 and I really, really, really hate the bullshit region lock stuff.

Dealing with the dude and the screen sharing was fine, it was just logmein. I mean I guess they have my ip and stuff but they already have my cc/PayPal info so them having my ip/seeing my computer is really the least of my worries.

It sounds like they've more or less adequately dealt with the disabled keys, which is good.

I guess it comes down to how you guys feel about region based crap. Personally I think it's a dinosaur and needs to go extinct. I see a lot of people being game company apologists or something like this is terrible for them? I don't know, I would rather look out for us consumers. We consumers are the only ones who lose when they sell keys in Russia for 6 rubles. And sell the same thing here for $69.99. I don't much care if stuff costs less in Russia, I'm still overpaying.

Edit: there's always a trial run. I feel like buying software from them is better than buying games. I also feel like a lot of the young people here who like LTT have no idea what putting the consumer first means and suckle the teats of software/game companies.

[Gr0egercesg]

Used them 3 times, never a problem, but i always paid the 2 dollars extra for the "shield", because my trust in them is somewhat limited