Sound cards are.........Irrelevant?

[EmoRarity]

le sigh.

At least no one linked the video...

[Lays]

At least no one linked the video...

 

@GoodBytes , most sound cards are bested by dedicated external dac's and amps.  If someone cares enough about sound quality to spend $100-200 on something, a sound card shouldn't be on the radar at all when things like the O2, ODAC, magni, modi, SMSL & Syba DAC exist.

 

 

 

rofl

[othertomperson]

Complete wrong. Dedicated sound card can clean the power it receives stabilizing it, and shield components from interference. To get a more extreme protection some sound card have a EMI shield and takes power directly from the PSU. The distance is sufficiently far to not cause a problem. This is a very known fact.

Also a dedicated sound card feature an SPU or Sound Processing Unit, while onboard solution takes the work it needs to do, simplify it in some way, and send for teh CPU to process, takes it passes it though an super el-cheapo DAC. Not to mention that all components are super cheap in managing the sound.

 

"Clean the power it receives." That's the kind of language products marketed to audiophiles normally use. Doesn't mean anything.

 

Yeah you can shield the hell out of a card, which helps to an extent (and I've yet to see an internal sound card that *is* sufficiently shielded), but by far the best solution is to just remove it from the whole PSU/motherboard area. In decent sound equipment you *always* have the power stage completely separate (or as from from it as possible) from any sound input. This just isn't possible in the internals of a PC. It is far better for any analogue sound processing to be external.

[weez]

At least no one linked the video...

 

why did you have to mention the video? 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1rXcJuEsy0

 

rofl

 

:angry:

 

dang guys lol

[kirBi]

Sure there is. Dedicated sound card is a simple, easy and integrated to the system solution which will deliver a significantly improved experience (assuming good speakers or headphones, not mention source used, of course).

 

What I'm saying is that external solution will have the same improvements with some additional benefits. In many cases, external solution is even simpler than sound card, performs better (especially on the amp part), and sometimes portable. 

[Lays]

why did you have to mention the video? 

 

 

:angry:

 

dang guys lol

 

 

I only did it coz SSL and Emo are buds of mine, and if I didn't post it, shearme probably would of

[GoodBytes]

@GoodBytes , most sound cards are bested by dedicated external dac's and amps.  If someone cares enough about sound quality to spend $100-200 on something, a sound card shouldn't be on the radar at all when things like the O2, ODAC, magni, modi, SMSL & Syba DAC exist.

Dedicated sound card provides an easy solution to get started, and also is integrated. Therefore still relevant.

 

Yeah you can shield the hell out of a card, which helps to an extent (and I've yet to see an internal sound card that *is* sufficiently shielded), but by far the best solution is to just remove it from the whole PSU/motherboard area. In decent sound equipment you *always* have the power stage completely separate (or as from from it as possible) from any sound input. This just isn't possible in the internals of a PC. It is far better for any analogue sound processing to be external.

Yea well, even outside it is prone to interference. Should be on the moon.

[Lays]

Dedicated sound card provides an easy solution to get started, and also is integrated. Therefore still relevant.

 

Yea well, even outside it is prone to interference. Should be on the moon.

 

 

Except for the fact that onboard is getting much better these days, and sound cards can still be prone to interference, since it's still inside the case.

My onboard on my z97 m power is actually great, it sounded very very close in quality to my O2 Odac, and my Schiit Lyr with all of the headphones I've tried with it, (He-500, HD800, LCD-2, AKG K712)

 

I had interference problems with my Xonar Phoebus about 2 years ago, ended up buying an external solution that cost 1/4 the price, and sounded the same in terms of quality, without the interference. Later that day I sold the phoebus on ebay.

Any issues with external interferance can usually be fixed easy with a ground loop isolator, or by using optical instead of USB.

[SSL]

Except for the fact that onboard is getting much better these days, and sound cards can still be prone to interference, since it's still inside the case.

My onboard on my z97 m power is actually great, it sounded very very close in quality to my O2 Odac, and my Schiit Lyr with all of the headphones I've tried with it, (He-500, HD800, LCD-2, AKG K712)

 

I had interference problems with my Xonar Phoebus about 2 years ago, ended up buying an external solution that cost 1/4 the price, and sounded the same in terms of quality, without the interference. Later that day I sold the phoebus on ebay.

Any issues with external interferance can usually be fixed easy with a ground loop isolator, or by using optical instead of USB.

 

Don't bother.

[GoodBytes]

Except for the fact that onboard is getting much better these days, and sound cards can still be prone to interference, since it's still inside the case.

People have been saying this since 2005. It is not true.

I had interference problems with my Xonar Phoebus about 2 years ago, ended up buying an external solution that cost 1/4 the price, and sounded the same in terms of quality, without the interference. Later that day I sold the phoebus on ebay.

Any issues with external interferance can usually be fixed easy with a ground loop isolator, or by using optical instead of USB.

Don't use your case audio connector. Most of them have the audio jack ground connected to the USB connectors ground and connected to the case. it is connected to the case so that you don't get shocked when you touch the metal of the case due to static charge, and ground again the components. Connecting to the ground to the audio connector is just cost cutting measure. Case manufacture goes "Well you are using onboard, you probably don't care about sound quality". Another factor, is the cable that goes through your case collecting interference.

[mr moose]

-snip-

And in pops the rare and illusive Emo for quick insult and a stab at a fellow forumer.   Look at the way his tongue expertly phrases the harshest of insults in elegant and simple words so even the dumbest forum users knows where they stand.  :lol:

Edited March 23, 2015 by prolemur
quoted content was hidden

[EmoRarity]

And in pops the rare and illusive Emo for quick insult and a stab at a fellow forumer.   Look at the way his tongue expertly phrases the harshest of insults in elegant and simple words so even the dumbest forum users knows where they stand.  :lol:

And its gone. 

[mr moose]

And its gone. 

I'm sure we will be graced with another in the not too distant future.

[EmoRarity]

I'm sure we will be graced with another in the not too distant future.

Unless I get temped for insulting a friend In a completely and utterly serious manner on the complete and utterly serious forum, its like they wanted it to be treated like a full time job. To bad the pay is ass. 

[EmoRarity]

Doubled woot.  

 

[mr moose]

Dang, they gone edited mah posty too. I feel somewhat violated.

[EmoRarity]

Dang, they gone edited mah posty too. I feel somewhat violated.

You get use to others touching your posts after awhile. 

[creatip123]

"Clean the power it receives." That's the kind of language products marketed to audiophiles normally use. Doesn't mean anything.

 

Yeah you can shield the hell out of a card, which helps to an extent (and I've yet to see an internal sound card that *is* sufficiently shielded), but by far the best solution is to just remove it from the whole PSU/motherboard area. In decent sound equipment you *always* have the power stage completely separate (or as from from it as possible) from any sound input. This just isn't possible in the internals of a PC. It is far better for any analogue sound processing to be external.

 

Well, in light of my recent experience:

 

I have an external dac/amp combo, with its own separate PSU unit (separated from the case/device, by almost 1m distance), and it was still bothered by noises/EMIs. I originally didn't know this, and just thought, 'well, this is as good as my device can go'. Then, mostly out of curiosity, I bought and installed a simple RFI filter to the dac's PSU power input. Couldn't be happier, the sound was upgraded by quite a bit, a lot cleaner. Best thing was, the filter only costs $3

 

In context of soundcard vs dac/amp, I'd say a soundcard is only worth its extra features (output plugs, surround mode, 3D gaming virtual surround, etc), as most external dac/amps focus on the quality of a simple stereo channel. 

 

I think in the past companies like Onkyo produced 'audiophile soundcards', with hi-end components, caps, resistors, and whatnot. Didn't do too well, and they stopped producing it. 

[Tiby]

I'll start by saying that when I first started with PC's I did not even know what a sound card is. This was way back when I was using a pair of cheap Genius cans that made enough sound to make me feel good while gaming (and even listening to audio).

A few years after, I had a friend come over with a pair of soundbars from Altec Lasing. When I hooked them up to my PC they sounded like my Genius speakers, partially even worse because they did not have good bass levels. Being very very anxious to understand why these where priced much higher than my Genius speakers, I went ahead and bought a cheap external sound card.

Once I hooked them up to it, it was totally different story with Altec Lansing ones (but not so much with my Genius).

Bottom line is that a sound card matters once you do have higher end equipment to rock it.

You can't buy for example a pair of HD 800's or any high impedance headset and expect that they will sound crystal clear on onboard audio solution (regardless of how much they are hyped now). 

Also if you want special effects in game, want to mix sounds or use professional equipment then again this is a must. 

 

In case you are on a budget when building a system, don't consider the integrated audio a priority (because nowadays the chipsets have improved so much that even lower end cards have better audio capabilities than 4-5 years back). You just need to choose lower impedance headset or soundbars (usually under 32 ohmi) that do not need this. It's certainly welcomed to have one, but you do need the right equipment to use them with.

 

PS: I still prefer my Fiio E11k dac to my onboard SupremeFx card from my PC. It's mosty due to portability (laptops onboard sound are decent to say at least) but even comparing to high end onboard solution it's still better.

[RatedBlam]

And I thought these threads were dead and buried a while ago.

[creatip123]

 

You can't buy for example a pair of HD 800's or any high impedance headset and expect that they will sound crystal clear on onboard audio solution (regardless of how much they are hyped now). 

 

 

I think @Dark_wizzie and @Lays did just that, using their HD800 with various sources, and couldn't find 'good enough' differences between onboard and various dac/amps... 

[SSL]

And I thought these threads were dead and buried a while ago.

 

Nothing wrong with rehashing the same tired discussion ad nauseam.

[GoodBytes]

Nothing wrong with rehashing the same tired discussion ad nauseam.

The question is on relevancy, not what is the best buy.

No one said that external DAC setup is better for your money (and no drivers).

[SSL]

The question is on relevancy, not what is the best buy.

No one said that external DAC setup is better for your money (and no drivers).

 

Rehashing the same tired discussion ad nauseam.

[needmorewood]

@kbmb13,  I have the logitech wireless g930 and I LOVE THEM!!! 

you cant even use a soundcard for that headset anyways