Are there any good amp/dac's for around £50

[Scepsis]

Yes, and a blind test ensure that the "differences" you distinguish are real and not imagined.

The difference between a Schitt stack and a motherboard audio is readily apparent.

The difference between a Schitt stack and a a shitty Chinese dac/amp is readily apparent.

 

Denying the facts because you can't afford the gear or don't want to spend the money on the gear doesn't magically make the benefits disappear.

C'mon man... this is like comparing Beats to Senheiser or AKG. The difference in quality is obvious... at least to a trained ear.

[Weirdybeardyman]

I myself am not an audiophile but I can appreciate that people who are and have trained ears can distinguish between good hardware to a point but the law of diminishing returns applys in audio hardware.

[Scepsis]

I myself am not an audiophile but I can appreciate that people who are and have trained ears can distinguish between good hardware to a point but the law of diminishing returns applys in audio hardware.

Indeed, which is why I recommend a $200 Schiit stack. Great performance per dollar.

[SSL]

The difference between a Schitt stack and a motherboard audio is readily apparent.

The difference between a Schitt stack and a a shitty Chinese dac/amp is readily apparent.

 

Denying the facts because you can't afford the gear or don't want to spend the money on the gear doesn't magically make the benefits disappear.

C'mon man... this is like comparing Beats to Senheiser or AKG. The difference in quality is obvious... at least to a trained ear.

 

So now you're an "audio engineer" with a "trained ear". Neat.

 

As I said, a blind test removes bias. I did not say unequivocally that there is no audible difference between onboard and a dedicated amp and DAC, only that expectation and confirmation bias can be very powerful. There is a lot of evidence for the phenomena and even legitimately trained professionals aren't immune.

[SSL]

I myself am not an audiophile but I can appreciate that people who are and have trained ears can distinguish between good hardware to a point but the law of diminishing returns applys in audio hardware.

 

Absolutely. And again, I'm not saying that bad onboard is indistinguishable from an O2. Just that once the differences become inaudible, there is no point in spending more money to make inaudible imperfections even more inaudible.

[Weirdybeardyman]

Indeed, which is why I recommend a $200 Schiit stack. Great performance per dollar.

There is always a point where price/performance peaks and then starts to diminish, in terms of headphones as far as im aware its around £400.

[Scepsis]

So now you're an "audio engineer" with a "trained ear". Neat.

 

As I said, a blind test removes bias. I did not say unequivocally that there is no audible difference between onboard and a dedicated amp and DAC, only that expectation and confirmation bias can be very powerful. There is a lot of evidence for the phenomena and even legitimately trained professionals aren't immune.

Yes, I am. A hobbyist one.

I'm not even talking about $1000 gear, (which is indeed snake oil) I'm talking about a $200 amp/dac combo that really does make a difference.

[Scepsis]

There is always a point where price/performance peaks and then starts to diminish, in terms of headphones as far as im aware its around £400.

That sounds pretty spot on.

[Weirdybeardyman]

Absolutely. And again, I'm not saying that bad onboard is indistinguishable from an O2. Just that once the differences become inaudible, there is no point in spending more money to make inaudible imperfections even more inaudible.

I think some people have an ear that allows them to distinguish better than other people do, such as for an example how Linus is able to distingush between refresh rates because he has sensitive eyes.

[SSL]

Yes, I am. A hobbyist one.

I'm not even talking about $1000 gear, (which is indeed snake oil) I'm talking about a $200 amp/dac combo that really does make a difference.

 

Then I'm not sure why you would call blind testing "misguided". Musicians have this figured out, it's why orchestra auditions are blind: because what you see and affects your perception of what you hear.

 

I think some people have an ear that allows them to distinguish better than other people do, such as for an example how Linus is able to distingush between refresh rates because he has sensitive eyes.

 

Not debating that.

[Weirdybeardyman]

Then I'm not sure why you would call blind testing "misguided". Musicians have this figured out, it's why orchestra auditions are blind: because what you see and affects your perception of what you hear.

Not debating that.

What im trying to say is that people with sensitive ears would be able to tell in blind tests but not people who don't.

[EmoRarity]

Have fun with that brick wall bby? 

[Scepsis]

I think some people have an ear that allows them to distinguish better than other people do, such as for an example how Linus is able to distingush between refresh rates because he has sensitive eyes.

 

Yeah, I have a 144Hz display and the difference vs 60Hz is astounding.

 

Then I'm not sure why you would call blind testing "misguided". Musicians have this figured out, it's why orchestra auditions are blind: because what you see and affects your perception of what you hear.

 

 

Not debating that.

I never called double blind testing misguided, I called you misguided. Don't strawman my arguments, dude.

 

Cheap audio gear sounds cheap. Good audio gear around $200-$300 sounds light years better.

It's not bias, but fact, especially if you are driving uber sensitive headphones and speakers.

 

End of story.

[Weirdybeardyman]

Even blind tests have too many variables to be fully controlled.

[EmoRarity]

"My objective experience tells me this, there for every contradiction must be wrong, regardless of science." 
 

[Scepsis]

"My objective experience tells me this, there for every contradiction must be wrong, regardless of science." 

 

Can't take somebody with an MLP avatar seriously... next!

[SSL]

It's not bias, but fact, especially if you are driving uber sensitive headphones and speakers.

 

Or it could be bias. Consider the sleek industrial design and $200 price point of a Schiit stack next to the cheap, plasticky, $40 Syba (made in China). Which would you immediately expect to sound better? Set up a blind test and the differences may be slightly smaller than you make out.

 

Even blind tests have too many variables to be controlled.

 

This is simply false. Blind tests are useful precisely BECAUSE they eliminate otherwise uncontrollable variables. And if this were true, how do you think science would get done?

[Scepsis]

Or it could be bias. Consider the sleek industrial design and $200 price point of a Schiit stack next to the cheap, plasticky, $40 Syba (made in China). Which would you immediately expect to sound better? Set up a blind test and the differences may be slightly smaller than you make out.

Considering cheap dacs make my Eris 5s hiss like a motherfucker and my Schiit Modi doesn't? I'd say there's a substantial difference.

[SSL]

Considering cheap dacs make my Eris 5s hiss like a motherfucker and my Schiit Modi doesn't? I'd say there's a substantial difference.

 

I ain't talking about random cheap dacs.

[Weirdybeardyman]

Or it could be bias. Consider the sleek industrial design and $200 price point of a Schiit stack next to the cheap, plasticky, $40 Syba (made in China). Which would you immediately expect to sound better? Set up a blind test and the differences may be slightly smaller than you make out.

This is simply false. Blind tests are useful precisely BECAUSE they eliminate otherwise uncontrollable variables. And if this were true, how do you think science would get done?

This is a bit of a ridiculous disscussion when audio experience can be quite subjective.

[EmoRarity]

Can't take somebody with an MLP avatar seriously... next!

I can't take ignorance seriously, another please. 

[Scepsis]

I ain't talking about random cheap dacs.

A Syba is a random, cheap dac.

[EmoRarity]

A Syba is a random, cheap dac.

Syba has been producing audio equipment longer the Schiit. 

[Weirdybeardyman]

Syba has been producing audio equipment longer the Schiit.

That doesn't mean it is better in any way.

[EmoRarity]

That doesn't mean it is better in any way.

That comment wasn't in reference to quality, just the standings the companies have. Syba has been in business producing products before Aaron took out his loan.