Mini ITX Build (Help With External PSU)

[TheAlexProctor]

Hi Everyone.

 

I require your help on a project of mine.

My friend who hasn't built a computer before has asked me to source out some parts to make a really small 

media center computer. He likes to be creative so he goggled up some ideas and found this cool looking case

design and decided that he would like to build something like this.

 

So that is all and good. 

 

I have got him to source out some of the perspex he wants to use. the only trouble now is the power supply. After showing him a full atx power supply he doesn't want to have to build

that into the perspex case so he wants to do what was in the picture. (Dont know what is called but it Gets 12v from a power brick and does 24Pin and Cpu and other power from that.

 

He doesn't want this to be a amazing machine just to play basic 1080p movies. 

 

So we have chosen these parts

INTEL PENTIUM 20th Anniversary Edition

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=CPUIT3258&name=Intel-Unlocked-Pentium-20th-Anniversary-G3258-3.2G

 

Gigabyte Motherboard

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=MBDGBM2851&name=Gigabyte-GA-H81N-for-Socket-1150-Intel-H81-Mini-IT

 

And Just Some Basic Cheep Stuff that i have arround

4Gb Ram

500Gb Laptop Hdd

The Basics.

 

 

Now all we need it the psu. i have one of these 12v (Dc to DC???) adapters that i got of www.aliexpress.com it is a 160W (i hope {you never know with online stuff}) But i have a supition

that it is broken because i pluged it up to a old Lga775 Mobo with a Old Celeron D and the Cpu makes a hissing sound and now when i pluged it up to a normal atx psu the psu makes 

a hissing sound and the Cpu so im not sure weather it was the mini psu that did this because i was not sure weather the board and cpu worked in the first place. (it works but it hisses when trying and

fails to boot into windows.) 

 

 

So i think the mini psu from aliexpress is a bad product and i wouldent want to use this on a new system.

 

so on ebay i found this 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250W-DC-12V-Mini-ITX-Power-Supply-ATOM-HTPC-mini-picoPSU-PC-ATX-Power-Supplies/311047973028?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27538%26meid%3Da14003a086a7497897e6a48940143dba%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D11353%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D200477728947&rt=nc

 

and i was wondering if this would be any better than what i had.

 

all i want to know is 

 

1. is there a way to test weather my mini psu from aliexpress is truely 160W. and if it will break any more systems (if it did the first time)

2. is there any other form of external psu that i can try that will work propperly

3. any other ideas you might have.

4. weather my system i want to build would run fine on a mini psu like that.

 

 

Thanks for your help

[Deli]

http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-160-XT

 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=207

 

The motherboard you pick has H81 chip. you can use it for the Pentium G3258, but requires a BIOS update. Better choose a H97 motherboard for your build.

[SImoHayha]

So what else does he want to do with this tiny computer ? If he wants to game he might want a better processor or a dual core process with hyper threading in it.

[TheAlexProctor]

This computer is only for movies. He doesn't need to play games I allredy asked and said if ever you change his mind. But he said he is fine. He just wants to make a basic computer that looks cool and can play movies and browse the web. Basic stuff.

But I understand what you mean.

[TheAlexProctor]

Regarding the motherboard. I didn't know this would be overkill would this be better

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=MBDASR1808&name=ASRock-B85M-ITX-Socket-1150-Intel-B85-ChipsetMini-

He may upgrade the CPU in the future but he just said he wants it to be cheep and small and cool looking.

He said if he ever decided to game on a desktop he would build a whole new one.

[Deli]

Regarding the motherboard. I didn't know this would be overkill would this be better

http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?z=p&p=MBDASR1808&name=ASRock-B85M-ITX-Socket-1150-Intel-B85-ChipsetMini-

He may upgrade the CPU in the future but he just said he wants it to be cheep and small and cool looking.

He said if he ever decided to game on a desktop he would build a whole new one.

Sorry, I mis-read the price, different currency. The mobo isn't overkill.

 

Ok, the G3258 is a Haswell refresh processor. It works out of the box with Z97, H97 chip set. Older Z87, H87, B81, etc, chip sets will require a BIOS update to work with G3258. And no all mobo manufacturers offer BIOS update for all their boards. If you really want to use 8 series chip set. You better check compatibility before go ahead with your purchase. 

 

Even if you can find the update for the motherboard BIOS. It can be tricky for certain boards. Some Asus boards can update the BIOS with USB flash drive without the processor installed. 

[TheAlexProctor]

Oh ok. Is there any mini itx boards you would reccomend. Because we have limited retailers out in KiwiLand. but I'm happy if there is something cheep online that will do the same job or better. And yeah sorry I forgot about the price diffrence. Just slipped my mind. It is kinda sad for example the nvidia shield is $199us and I can get it imported for about $240us and here to buy it is like $500nz which is like $460us so it is mega expensive for parts. So most I buy online or I source from elsewhere.

Thanks heaps

Alex proctor

[Deli]

Oh ok. Is there any mini itx boards you would reccomend. Because we have limited retailers out in KiwiLand. but I'm happy if there is something cheep online that will do the same job or better. And yeah sorry I forgot about the price diffrence. Just slipped my mind. It is kinda sad for example the nvidia shield is $199us and I can get it imported for about $240us and here to buy it is like $500nz which is like $460us so it is mega expensive for parts. So most I buy online or I source from elsewhere.

Thanks heaps

Alex proctor

You can keep your choice of mobo, but pick a Haswell Pentium G3250 or G3420, They perform more or less the same as G3258, and work with 8 series chipset. 

 

Also, the link I provided, Jonnyguru.com, is considered the bible when it comes to power supply. It's a must read if you need reliable information about those picoPSUs.

[spwath]

Called "pico PSU"

[TheAlexProctor]

OK thanks I've changed to

The g3240 CPU

And the gigabyte ga-h81n motherboard

Also regarding my 160w pico PSU I allredy have what ways would you reccomend for me to test it because I don't want to use it and have it break $250nz worth of hardware. Or would you reccomend buying a better quality one off eBay of Amazon or something because the one from www.aliexpress.com I only paid $12us for so it was super cheep.

[Deli]

OK thanks I've changed to

The g3240 CPU

And the gigabyte ga-h81n motherboard

Also regarding my 160w pico PSU I allredy have what ways would you reccomend for me to test it because I don't want to use it and have it break $250nz worth of hardware. Or would you reccomend buying a better quality one off eBay of Amazon or something because the one from www.aliexpress.com I only paid $12us for so it was super cheep.

Honestly, I don't feel comfortable to recommend a picoPSU to anyone. Since it isn't commonly used. Quality and reliability are big unknowns. As you know, if a power supply fails, it can take out the entire system.

 

Unless you have some specialized equipments, there is no easy way to test it before you plug it to you PC. The same for bigger, more commonly used ATX and SFX power supply. I prefer to stick with reputable brands like Seasonic, EVGA, etc. Well known for their quality. But they don't make super small picoPSU. The smallest PSUs from good brands are 4 SFX PSUs from Silverstone and a couple of TFX from Be Quiet.

 

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product_power.php?tno=7&area=en

 

http://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/be-quiet-tfx-power-2-300w-gold-review/

 

There is one more type, called Flex ATX. Which is not much bigger than a laptop power brick. If you're willing to make the case slightly bigger, it might fit nicely.

 

Whatever PSU you choose. Pick one with at least 80 plus bronze certified.

[TheAlexProctor]

Honestly, I don't feel comfortable to recommend a picoPSU to anyone. Since it isn't commonly used. Quality and reliability are big unknowns. As you know, if a power supply fails, it can take out the entire system.

 

Unless you have some specialized equipments, there is no easy way to test it before you plug it to you PC. The same for bigger, more commonly used ATX and SFX power supply. I prefer to stick with reputable brands like Seasonic, EVGA, etc. Well known for their quality. But they don't make super small picoPSU. The smallest PSUs from good brands are 4 SFX PSUs from Silverstone and a couple of TFX from Be Quiet.

 

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product_power.php?tno=7&area=en

 

http://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/be-quiet-tfx-power-2-300w-gold-review/

 

There is one more type, called Flex ATX. Which is not much bigger than a laptop power brick. If you're willing to make the case slightly bigger, it might fit nicely.

 

Whatever PSU you choose. Pick one with at least 80 plus bronze certified.

 

 

Ok Thanks (Im On My Desktop So I Can Quote People Now. (Phone Issues)

 

I have Found A Shuttle Power supply (Model PC35I2402)

 

Its Total Power Output is 240W

 

It doesn't say about the efficiency but it has this table

 

Dc Output

 

| +12V | +5Vsb | -12V  |  +3.3v |   +5V  |

| 16A   |    2A    | 0.3A  |  16A    |  19A   |

 

Ac Input

 

|            VOLTAGE                    |           CURRENT          |           FREQUENCY       |

|        100VAC-200VAC             |         6A / 3A                 |        60HZ / 50Hz             |

 

 

I Dont know what any of this really means and if this means the efficenty

 

The CPU Uses 53W on intels website and not sure about mother board and other hardware. but should be fine with this psu

 

Intel Pentium G3240 3.1Ghz 

Gigabyte GA-H81N

4GB Crucial DDR3 1600Mhz

Intel Wireless Ac Mini Pci Card (Slots into Motherboard)

Shuttle Power Supply As Mentioned before

Some Led's Mabye for effect

 

Thanks Alex Proctor

[Deli]

Ok Thanks (Im On My Desktop So I Can Quote People Now. (Phone Issues)

 

I have Found A Shuttle Power supply (Model PC35I2402)

 

Its Total Power Output is 240W

 

It doesn't say about the efficiency but it has this table

 

Dc Output

 

| +12V | +5Vsb | -12V  |  +3.3v |   +5V  |

| 16A   |    2A    | 0.3A  |  16A    |  19A   |

 

Ac Input

 

|            VOLTAGE                    |           CURRENT          |           FREQUENCY       |

|        100VAC-200VAC             |         6A / 3A                 |        60HZ / 50Hz             |

 

 

I Dont know what any of this really means and if this means the efficenty

 

The CPU Uses 53W on intels website and not sure about mother board and other hardware. but should be fine with this psu

 

Intel Pentium G3240 3.1Ghz 

Gigabyte GA-H81N

4GB Crucial DDR3 1600Mhz

Intel Wireless Ac Mini Pci Card (Slots into Motherboard)

Shuttle Power Supply As Mentioned before

Some Led's Mabye for effect

 

Thanks Alex Proctor

My second system(which I'm using to reply this thread) is similar to the one you want to build, except it has a i3 processor and uses a SFX PSU. It consumes about 90-95W under full load from the wall.

 

One thing to consider is the efficiency, hence the 80 plus thing. Especially for small PSU, which uses a small cooling fan. If the PSU has low efficiency, it generates more heat, requires the fan to spin faster, and makes a lot of noise. You don't want a hair dryer blowing next to your ears when watch movies. I still recommend if you can find one with 80 plus bronze certified.

 

If you have to buy a separate Wifi card. Why not simply buy a motherboard already has Wifi?

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130786

[TheAlexProctor]

My second system(which I'm using to reply this thread) is similar to the one you want to build, except it has a i3 processor and uses a SFX PSU. It consumes about 90-95W under full load from the wall.

 

One thing to consider is the efficiency, hence the 80 plus thing. Especially for small PSU, which uses a small cooling fan. If the PSU has low efficiency, it generates more heat, requires the fan to spin faster, and makes a lot of noise. You don't want a hair dryer blowing next to your ears when watch movies. I still recommend if you can find one with 80 plus bronze certified.

 

If you have to buy a separate Wifi card. Why not simply buy a motherboard already has Wifi?

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130786

Thanks 

 

Note i allredy have a wireless card it came off a old laptop it is a good intel one (wireless ac and stuff)

and i have another i can try off an old gigabyte board from someone who dident need wifi.

 

the psu was from a shuttle pc. and it was a old one with a amd athalon 64. it is quite slow and the sata ports on the 

old motherboard doesent work so that is why im not useing that. but when i had windows running off a usb

and was running the windows exprence index under load it wasent getting that hot (the psu) and the fan was quite quiet. 

the clear case we want to build will have plenty ventilation. 

 

also im happy to buy any similar sized psu's does anyone make them like shuttle do. this psu is about 20cm x 5cm x 4cm so it is nice and compact.

if shuttle make a 80plus one that would be nice ( im not sure if they do) 

[Deli]

Thanks 

 

Note i allredy have a wireless card it came off a old laptop it is a good intel one (wireless ac and stuff)

and i have another i can try off an old gigabyte board from someone who dident need wifi.

 

the psu was from a shuttle pc. and it was a old one with a amd athalon 64. it is quite slow and the sata ports on the 

old motherboard doesent work so that is why im not useing that. but when i had windows running off a usb

and was running the windows exprence index under load it wasent getting that hot (the psu) and the fan was quite quiet. 

the clear case we want to build will have plenty ventilation. 

 

also im happy to buy any similar sized psu's does anyone make them like shuttle do. this psu is about 20cm x 5cm x 4cm so it is nice and compact.

if shuttle make a 80plus one that would be nice ( im not sure if they do) 

http://www.umart.com.au/umart1/pro/Products-details.phtml?id=10&id2=140&bid=4&sid=191031

 

This one is only 180w.

[TheAlexProctor]

http://www.umart.com.au/umart1/pro/Products-details.phtml?id=10&id2=140&bid=4&sid=191031

 

This one is only 180w.

 

Thanks For that. looks good and olny for $49.00AU thats about $53.00NZ i will have to see about shipping.

i also have decided to build one of these small machines. 

so im buying 2 lots of everything.

2x CPU. ( i may get a i3 for myself. or something else because i might game on it. (Verry Light Gaming) e.g console type games )

2x Gigabyte Motherboards

2x Intel lan cards from old laptops.

2x of those psu's you reccomended. i will still do bit more looking for cheeper deals or better product.

 

also on Nz's version of amazon or eBay (TradeMe) i have found a seller selling sheets of Acrylic for $3.80Nz ($2.00Us?) these sheets are about the size of a A4 Sheet of paper. (21cm x 29.70cm) @ 3mm thick. 

i have measured out on Sheet of paper that exact size where everything would go and the dimensions of the case.

and sised it up with a old *broken* mini-itx motherboard. and everything will fit perfectly. and i will need about 4 pieces of this A4 sized Acrylic. and because im buying 2 lots i will need 8 Sheets of this.

 

$3.80 x 8 = $30.40 (don't worry i've done the math this is cheaper than buying one full sheet or a custom cut one that size. and im happy to do the cutting for the sides and front and back myself

Just fitting it with the Shuttle pc PSU i currently have which fits perfectly next to the motherboard. The cables are quite short so i will have to either make custom cables ( i don't have a good soldering iron so NOPE) or i can

buy cable extensions (if someone knows where i can buy cheep cable extensions Preferably sleeved that would be a good help. but it looks like i can get them on www.aliexpress.com for about $20US for the Motherboard Cable. 4-Pin Cpu, and One Molex And one Sata Power

But for cable management im probably gonna make the case bit higher and fit the HDD/SSD under the motherboard and hide the cables under there. 

I will use all the off cuts from the Acrylic to make a space between the motherboard and the cables. and i will put the stands offs in those parts.

 

 

Also i discovered something which is pretty cool and im going to use on both of these systems. 

It is called (i think) "LCD SMARTIE"

it is where you can use a Arduino and a lcd screen (Mine i have 2 of arduino and 2 "20x4" lcd displays)

Lcd SMARTIE emulates on the Arduino a type of display a company makes. and this display can show stuff like

system status, cpu usage, temps, current thing playing, the time, anything you want so this will be 

quite cool for the media pc. to have this ability to show you features like this without the tv even being on.

And this is all over the USB headder on your motherboard

 

Example of LCD smartie

 

 

Thanks Alex Proctor

[Deli]

It's going to be an interesting build. Just want to remind one thing. The iGPU in Pentium and even i3 aren't powerful enough to play game. You will need a discrete graphics card. And with that power supply, a 60W graphics card, like GTX750 Ti, is more or less the max it can handle. 

 

Have fun with your build.

[TheAlexProctor]

It's going to be an interesting build. Just want to remind one thing. The iGPU in Pentium and even i3 aren't powerful enough to play game. You will need a discrete graphics card. And with that power supply, a 60W graphics card, like GTX750 Ti, is more or less the max it can handle. 

 

Have fun with your build.

ok thanks i will keep that in mind.

 

just so where all clear tho.

 

1 machine will be my friends media machine which will only need to play 1080p movies at a reasonable bit rate (where not talking like full blue ray here people) and he wont be playing games.

all the movies are stored on the portable hdd in his cupboard or the usb dvd drive he already owns. and will be connected with wifi for basic web browsing and YouTube

 

the other machine will be also a media machine which will be running a plex client. all the encoding is done from the plex server so it wont have much trouble and mine will be connected to network with cat 6. with gigabit switches.

but it may be used in the future for some Light gaming. e.g (FTL, or the games that would run on my old Pentium 4 single core 2.8ghz ddr1 machine. should have no trouble there.

 

and if possible. (not quite sure if the CPU can handle it but i would like to hear your ideas about this) i would like to try steam in home streaming. because of my cat6 + gigabit connection to the gaming rig. it shouldn't have a bottleneck there. 

but im wondering if the CPU can handle the Decoding. (hopefully it can,) do i need a discrete gpu for in home streaming???

 

but there is certainly enough room in the pc case with my design for a discrete gpu. with a pcie. extension cable. but i would have to see about the power usage

would something really basic "like this doesn't even need pci power"  Asus GT740 2GB GDDR3

would that work even though it might be pushing it and it looks like it might not even preform that well.

also if i decided to upgrade the cpu instead. to like a i5 or a i3. isint the integrated graphics on the 4th gen Cpu's enough. my friend has a surface pro 2 with a i5 and it seams

to run most games quite well on medium settings. (im talking about games such as Garrys Mod, FTL, Dont Starve, Portal 2, Starbound.)

 

i don't have many games with cutting edge graphics. like i said "console like games"  

 

Thanks Heaps.

 

Wondering if i should do a build log of this project. as it seems like a interesting project.

[Deli]

For streaming, playing HD movies, the i3's HD4600 iGPU can handle it no problem. My second rig has no discrete graphics card either. For gaming, I'm really not sure, because I use my other rig which has a GTX780. 

 

If you decide to add a graphics card, anything less than GTX750 Ti isn't recommended. This card is a little wonder because of the Maxwell architecture. Use only 60W but on par with PS4 in terms of graphics performance. EVGA makes two versions of GTX750 Ti which are very short with one fan, no longer than a itx motherboard. Perfect for an itx build.

[TheAlexProctor]

For streaming, playing HD movies, the i3's HD4600 iGPU can handle it no problem. My second rig has no discrete graphics card either. For gaming, I'm really not sure, because I use my other rig which has a GTX780. 

 

If you decide to add a graphics card, anything less than GTX750 Ti isn't recommended. This card is a little wonder because of the Maxwell architecture. Use only 60W but on par with PS4 in terms of graphics performance. EVGA makes two versions of GTX750 Ti which are very short with one fan, no longer than a itx motherboard. Perfect for an itx build.

Ok thanks. Just was looking because i recently built my friend who is a stock trader a machine. it had a 660sc and a i5 in it and it was a itx build in a bit-phoenix prodigy (small, Portable, can handle 5+ displays. but he has given me his old system i beleve it is ddr2 i cant check right now. but he had 2 asus radon cards. im not sure what model. they dident have a fan on it so it was either one of the low end cards or one of the bigness cards.  i think it is this model http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121439 but will have to check later. im not sure if this will help the performance of the inter-graded graphics or be worse. but would it be good to put this in the system?