Any better sub options?

[Enderman]

The fun thing is: PA subs don't have to make a lot of excursion for high SPL. They can make huge noise with only a couple of mm excursion.

Don't underestimate their strength, they're made with performance in mind instead of looks. 

While they may not look fancy, they're definitely very strong in terms of performance and physical strength.

I searched up all the PA subs I could on amazon, and the trend I see is high SPL but minimum frequencies of about 30-50Hz (for a 15")

Anything below 30Hz is more common on 18" or 21" PA subs, which cost several hundred dollars each.

Even just a 15" PA sub already costs at least $100 (for a non-crap brand one)

 

So im kinda glad the MTX sub I bought can reach down to 19Hz

[mr moose]

I searched up all the PA subs I could on amazon, and the trend I see is high SPL but minimum frequencies of about 30-50Hz (for a 15")

Anything below 30Hz is more common on 18" or 21" PA subs, which cost several hundred dollars each.

Even just a 15" PA sub already costs at least $100 (for a non-crap brand one)

 

So im kinda glad the MTX sub I bought can reach down to 19Hz

 

Yep, P.A subs are generally much bigger,  no body wastes their time trying to fill a venue with sub 30hz signal from anything smaller than 18" for a moderate venue to several 18" units for larger auditoriums and 21"+ or sub arrays for anything bigger than that again. And keep in mind to get louder with these drivers means bigger ported enclosures, which means you need more accurate T/S parameters and the down side is that transient response (group delay) can be as high  as 50ms giving a muddy boomy sound instead of tight and controlled.

[Enderman]

Yep, P.A subs are generally much bigger,  no body wastes their time trying to fill a venue with sub 30hz signal from anything smaller than 18" for a moderate venue to several 18" units for larger auditoriums and 21"+ or sub arrays for anything bigger than that again. And keep in mind to get louder with these drivers means bigger ported enclosures, which means you need more accurate T/S parameters and the down side is that transient response (group delay) can be as high  as 50ms giving a muddy boomy sound instead of tight and controlled.

Which would basically mean I need a 5ft cabinet for $800 with a 24" sub to get down to 20Hz lol

I think a teensy weensy 15" car sub is enough for me :lol:

[mr moose]

Which would basically mean I need a 5ft cabinet for $800 with a 24" sub to get down to 20Hz lol

I think a teensy weensy 15" car sub is enough for me :lol:

 

But with the right amp you could blow your windows out B)

[Enderman]

But with the right amp you could blow your windows out B)

Well they wouldnt be my windows...it would be the school windows...and I would probably get in lots of trouble...

[Lutkeveld]

 

 

 

 

 

There is a reason that PA subs don't go to 20hz. It's called Hoffman's Iron Law: efficiency, small enclosure, deep bass. Pick 2.

Efficiency is key when you want to go loud. Take a 90db/w/m vs a 100db/w/m for example. To make up for a 10db difference you need 10x more power.

That can be the difference between 500 watt or 5kW. 5kW causes serious power compression and very high power power consumption.

Also: higher cost, less reliable, more space needed for the amp, bigger cables needed for low power loss, higher heat disappation in the amp and speaker.

The lower sensitivity of human hearing and the absence of <50hz bass in commercial tracks also doesn't help.

 

@mr moose I often use WinISD for simulating the low end, which is the only thing it can do really. It does BP/Sealed/Ported/PR with all graphs you need.

 

The bigger you go the bigger the tolerance is actually, but I agree that you need more accurate TSP's for a ported enclosure.

But if you design it well, the sound can really good. 

[Enderman]

There is a reason that PA subs don't go to 20hz. It's called Hoffman's Iron Law: efficiency, small enclosure, deep bass. Pick 2.

Efficiency is key when you want to go loud. Take a 90db/w/m vs a 100db/w/m for example. To make up for a 10db difference you need 10x more power.

That can be the difference between 500 watt or 5kW. 5kW causes serious power compression and very high power power consumption.

Also: higher cost, less reliable, more space needed for the amp, bigger cables needed for low power loss, higher heat disappation in the amp and speaker.

The lower sensitivity of human hearing and the absence of <50hz bass in commercial tracks also doesn't help.

 

@mr moose I often use WinISD for simulating the low end, which is the only thing it can do really. It does BP/Sealed/Ported/PR with all graphs you need.

 

The bigger you go the bigger the tolerance is actually, but I agree that you need more accurate TSP's for a ported enclosure.

But if you design it well, the sound can really good. 

ok thanks

I just thought about my speaker setup at school and I realized I have six 8-ohm speakers in parallel on one channel....

Thats 1.3 ohms on a receiver thats meant to do 8 ohm speakers and its been running for months with no issues.

Im going to need to fix that...

 

also, do you know of a program that can analyze the sound being output from your PC and tell you the frequency?

I know windows media player has a spectrum and bar graphs but theres no way to know what frequency each bar is.

[Lutkeveld]

Probably because you're not maxing it out. Running a lower resistance/impedance than the amplifier is rated for will often only cause thermal/current issues on max volume.

But yeah, you should probably fix that.

 

Do you want the program to see on which frequency the bass is in your music or how deep your system can properly reproduce bass?

What do you mean with 'at school' by the way? Are you the audio guy at school?

[Enderman]

Probably because you're not maxing it out. Running a lower resistance/impedance than the amplifier is rated for will often only cause thermal/current issues on max volume.

But yeah, you should probably fix that.

 

Do you want the program to see on which frequency the bass is in your music or how deep your system can properly reproduce bass?

What do you mean with 'at school' by the way? Are you the audio guy at school?

Well I have been using it near max, at about 60/74 volume. I think the cooling fans I added are helping to keep it from overheating.

 

I would like a program that tells me what the lowest frequency of a song is (in realtime if possible)

 

And at school I built my audio setup in the robotics room, Im not part of sound crew if thats what youre thinking.

We have a bunch of robotics people and we all hang out there for several hours a day, so I kinda turned it into party

[Lutkeveld]

Increased current due too lower impedance is often a bigger problem than thermals.

Amp won't blow because of the overcurrent and high temperature protection, but it is of course better to prevent the need of these circuits

 

Don't know any program out the top of my head. I'm sure others can help you with it.

[Enderman]

Increased current due too lower impedance is often a bigger problem than thermals. 

 

Don't know any program out the top of my head. I'm sure others can help you with it.

alright thanks

at least the amp hasnt blown yet seems to be pretty capable

[mr moose]

There is a reason that PA subs don't go to 20hz. It's called Hoffman's Iron Law: efficiency, small enclosure, deep bass. Pick 2.

Efficiency is key when you want to go loud. Take a 90db/w/m vs a 100db/w/m for example. To make up for a 10db difference you need 10x more power.

That can be the difference between 500 watt or 5kW. 5kW causes serious power compression and very high power power consumption.

Also: higher cost, less reliable, more space needed for the amp, bigger cables needed for low power loss, higher heat disappation in the amp and speaker.

The lower sensitivity of human hearing and the absence of <50hz bass in commercial tracks also doesn't help.

 

@mr moose I often use WinISD for simulating the low end, which is the only thing it can do really. It does BP/Sealed/Ported/PR with all graphs you need.

 

The bigger you go the bigger the tolerance is actually, but I agree that you need more accurate TSP's for a ported enclosure.

But if you design it well, the sound can really good. 

 

 I love ISD, I used speaker workshop for a while but it seemed unnecessarily over complicated for the task it was doing.  

 

On the P.A front While Hoffmans is true, I was referring to the general driver size for a target output FR.  I have never (and know of no one else) who would try to get low end extension out of 15"  drivers unless they were contemplating a TM array.  The go to is always 18" and up in a large ported enclosure (also thrown in the corner as best as possible to give  some loading).  P.A subs can go as low as 30Hz, I have used a few that can hit sub 30Hz. 

[Lutkeveld]

I only love WinISD for its simplicity, it's nothing special otherwise ;p

 

There are loads of people using 15" for low end extension. It's a very popular size for tapped horns for example.

For very heavy duty or very low frequencies applications 18" might be the way to go. 

Multiple 15" subs for smoothed response (horns), placing them apart for a larger working area and flexiblity, cardiod setup, reducing room modes etc is very common.

[mr moose]

I only love WinISD for its simplicity, it's nothing special otherwise ;p

 

There are loads of people using 15" for low end extension. It's a very popular size for tapped horns for example.

For very heavy duty or very low frequencies applications 18" might be the way to go. 

Multiple 15" subs for smoothed response (horns), placing them apart for a larger working area and flexiblity, cardiod setup, reducing room modes etc is very common.

 

If space was not an issue and large SPL was essential I'd go a TM array with 15". 

 

Something like this:

 

[Enderman]

Well it seems I made my purchase at the perfect time!

Before I was looking for a sub it was $70 (based on the pricing history) then I bought it for $65 and now after I bought it the price has spiked to $90...

lol

I wonder how they determine this super-variable pricing thing...

And it still costs $260 from amazon.ca

 

I'm lucky I have relatives that live in the states, and I can ship all my crap to them and have them bring it to me

[BoredErica]

If space was not an issue and large SPL was essential I'd go a TM array with 15". 

 

Something like this:

 

Uhm... holy shit, that guy's hair is memorizing. 

[mr moose]

Uhm... holy shit, that guy's hair is memorizing. 

 

It's pretty common of some of the old guys who work in the background for metallic ( or just old school rock/metal in general).

 

Cliff burnstein, Torben Ulrich, Mick hughs, and I dare say even the janitor.

[Stagea]

Just looking for some 3rd party opinions before I make my purchase...

 

I'm planning to buy a 15" sub to add to my speaker system at school. Is this the best option I can get for the money?

I see plenty of cheaper options but they seem like cheap brands, and afaik MTX has quite a good reputation.

At first I questioned the performance due to the abnormal surround, but after some research it seems like its actually better than the normal dome ring.

 

http://www.amazon.com/MTX-Audio-5515-44-Series-Subwoofer/dp/B00BJF4VB4/ref=sr_1_117?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1415585707&sr=1-117

 

 

Is this the best I can get for $65?

Or is there something much better for just a bit more money?

Just remember that the enclosure design should work with the driver's parameters. Try fiddling with WinISD to estimate if the current enclosure will work with your driver in mind.

[Stagea]

Oh I didnt notice you asked a question there...sorry

This is the sub I bought https://www.mtx.com/5515-44-mtx-car-subwoofer

And this is what the enclose looks like because I dont have a product number or brand since I got it for free from craigslist:

If I have any turbulence issues with the sub I can always get someone from the woodshop to build me a better one but first I will try it and see how it performs.

 

That enclosure may be too small for low end extension outside of a car with a car sub driver. Try to simulate with WinISD or something similar.

[Enderman]

That enclosure may be too small for low end extension outside of a car with a car sub driver. Try to simulate with WinISD or something similar.

Alright I will try that, thanks.