How mobile i7 CPUs work (information guide)

[GER_T4IGA]

Hey guys. I keep seeing a lot of people (especially Linus himself) having no idea how mobile i7s actually work, so I'm going to make a very small little info guide (nowhere near as detailed as my other two) to explain mobile CPUs better to people. This guide only applies to Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge and Haswell mobile i7 chips. Any chips before that I do not claim to know a great deal about. This is also my third guide, check out the other two!

Turbo clocks

Mobile CPU turbo clocks work very differently than the desktop variants do. Basically, the "base" clock that people so often point at should never be run at. If your CPU is running at this under load, YOUR MACHINE NEEDS TO BE FIXED SOMEHOW. The chips have 4 core, 3 core, 2 core and 1 core turbo boost clocks. Usually, the 4 core and 3 core turbo multiplier is the same, and the 2 core and 1 core turbo multipliers are higher. In general, whatever your "max turbo boost" is for the chip (for example, my i7-4800MQ is 2.7GHz base with a 3.7GHz max turbo) is what your single core turbo boost clock is. 100MHz under that (3.6GHz in my case) is your 2 core turbo boost clock, and a further 100MHz under this (3.5GHz) is your 3 core and 4 core turbo boost clocks. So, to summarize: 1 core = max turbo, 2 core = max turbo - 100MHz, and 3 core & 4 core = max turbo -200MHz for most i7 chips. This goes as far back as Sandy Bridge. For a full list of their turbo boost ratios, you can check out THIS LINK (starts at Haswell; scroll up for previous chips).

Essentially, under load, you should ALWAYS be operating at your 4-core turbo boost multiplier. If I were to livestream for 6 hours, I would sit at 3.5GHz for 6 hours. If I'm playing Binding of Isaac rebirth, I'm probably going to hover around 1.7GHz to 2GHz because I don't need any more power from the chip. Understand? If your mobile chip under sufficient load, downclocks below its 4-core turbo boost multiplier for ANY REASON, your chip is "throttling" and you should fix it. Linus recently reviewed the GS70 stealth from MSI and said that the chip hit 2.9GHz at one point but he was happy that it wasn't throttling... that was wrong. It WAS throttling, and should have kept at 3.3GHz constantly (the 4-core boost for an i7-4710HQ).

Next, throttling can occur in one of a few ways. The three most common I'll list below:

- First, your chip can overheat. Usually the thermal throttle limit is set to 95 degrees celcius on 1 core or the package, at which point the chip will slowly go down to its base clock speed in an attempt to not hit the TJMax (danger zone) of 100c that's set for mobile i7 CPUs. If this is happening, you need to fix your cooling. Either use a better thermal paste (NO, MX-2 and MX-4 are not good enough) and/or clean out your fans, or buy a notebook with better cooling for the kind of load you're going to put your CPUs through.

- Secondly, you can have too little voltage to hold a high clock for the instruction set you are using. For example: my undervolted CPU will not hold even stock clocks in AVX instruction set in LinX benchmarks (throttles to 3.3GHz). When I remove the undervolt, it works. If I overclock it and use stock voltage, I get limited to 3.5GHz during this time rather than the 3.8 GHz I usually test with. While this does not CRASH my PC or anything, if you need a program running these instruction sets and you only throttle in one or two instances like this, voltage is your go-to to raise a bit. If your machine is throttling at stock settings however without running out of power or overheating, you should make some noise at whoever sold you it.

- Thirdly, you can run out of power. This is usually as a result of an inefficient power adapter, being on battery, or simply the motherboard of the laptop not allowing enough power to be fed to the chip. If this is your issue and buying a bigger power adapter (assuming one is available) does not fix it... then buy a better notebook.

Overclocking

How much you can overclock is easy to figure out. It's limited by the second number in the chip's name. I'll summarize for you below:

For Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge: i7-x6xxQM = no overclocking allowed, i7-x7xxQM and i7-x8xxQM = +400MHz OC potential and any XM chip = unlocked multiplier. Ramp a XM chip UP TO 4.8GHz if you want.

For Haswell: i7-47xxMQ = +200MHz OC potential, i7-48xxMQ = +400MHz OC potential, i7-49xxMQ = +600MHz OC potential and any MX chip = unlocked multiplier. Good luck cooling Blast Furnace Haswell though.

These OC potentials apply to all the turbo clocks. So for example with my 4800MQ again, I can hit 3.9GHz on 3 or 4 cores, 4GHz on 2 cores and 4.1GHz on 1 core. If I had a 4900MQ however (2.8GHz base, 3.6GHz default 4-core turbo) I could hit 4.2GHz on 3 or 4 cores, 4.3GHz on 2 cores and 4.4GHz on 1 core. This does not mean I need to boost 1-core above whatever OC I wish. I could easily set my CPU to run at 3.8GHz max and whether it's using 1 core or 4 cores for a task, it will never cross 3.8GHz. This can be done if you have a machine with an unlocked BIOS with OCing options or using Intel XTU (with a locked BIOS) for overclocking, unless the motherboard is programmed not to supply power or voltage to a CPU beyond stock.

Just like with a desktop CPU however, it's up to you to apply enough but not too much power and voltage, as well as keeping it cool enough when OCing. We do have a LOT OF OPTIONS when trying to OC these things (if your BIOS allows it) . Don't OC if you have a thin and light notebook or one with generally bad cooling (like a consumer HP, or a Razer Blade) though. Especially with Haswell, those will probably overheat and die.

Also, don't let the inborne TDP fool you... these things can draw a lot of power. Here's my CPU with a max draw of 80W under load with Linpack at stock speeds with an undervolt (increased current limit and increased TDP limit) for some proof.

Addendum: It seems that in MSI's brilliant decision to ship 180W PSUs with 120W TDP GPUs and ~50W CPUs in their GT60 and GT70 line, the BIOS in those systems is configured to act like the 49xxHQ chips do. The 49xxHQ's power throttling is explained in another section below. No, you cannot unlock it with one of Svet's custom BIOSes. We've tried.

HQ chips and their power limitations

The HQ line of chips, while having an allowance for OCing (eg i7-4980HQ's 3.6GHz 4-core base turbo can hit 4.2GHz like a 4900MQ), are very bad at actually holding their clocks. I've asked multiple users across multiple notebooks to test for me, and I've compiled the information about these extremely weird chips here. Also, the 48xxHQ chips are almost never sold, so I have no information on them.

47xxHQ chips: Increasing TDP limits, AMPs and power time windows via BIOS or XTU do not actually change for the chips. This means their max OC is likely not going to happen. In fact, under heavy load at stock boost clocks, there is a high likelihood of the chips downclocking, due to haswell being extremely power hungry. There is a slight circumvention to this however. Undervolting the processor and the cache can help reduce power drawn, and if you have a good enough chip, you can undervolt and overclock and mostly keep your clocks... but this is more luck of the draw than ever before, as unlike buying chips standalone, you would need to buy a whole new laptop to try for another roulette. If you have a bad chip like my 4800MQ is (I need stock voltage to overclock; compared to my last one which could do -80mV & +400MHz stable) you're never getting that changed. Good luck with the silicon lottery!

There also seems to be an issue depending on the BIOS of the machine. Most chips lock themselves to their 57W turbo boost short power max value for some duration if load spikes, however some machines (like the GT72 from MSI) lock themselves to the chip's 47W limit 24/7. This is a serious problem in demanding games like Star Citizen, or other exceedingly CPU-heavy games like other Cryengine 3 titles, Frostbite 3 titles and MMOs, especially in a scenario where the action spikes and your CPU load spikes... if the chip needs to and attempts to draw more power, your $3000 laptop will suddenly start throttling like a piece of crap. Angry about this? Go bitch at MSI and Intel.

48xxHQ chips: No information available. Have had no contact with users owning this chip. If you own this chip, PLEASE contact me so I can have you run tests. Until such time, assume behaviour of 49xxHQ chip line.

49xxHQ chips: increasing TDP limits and AMPs etc via BIOS or XTU *DOES* actually work for these chips. Confirmed using both Alienware and MSI notebooks. The problem however, is that the CPUs only keep the higher power limits for approximately 2 and a half minutes, just like with the 47xxHQ chips. This is more than enough for most benchmarks however, as anything that doesn't cross the base power consumption for the CPU will hold (such as GPU-heavy parts) and the parts that stress the CPU are usually ~1 minute long at most. When under serious load in gaming, however, such as unlocked FPS BF4 or if you're a livestreamer etc? These chips are not for you. They're not gonna keep their clocks (likely not even stock, unless you SERIOUSLY undervolt) under extended load times.

This cannot be fixed via system BIOS updates either. The Alienwares would be the most likely to allow it in their BIOS, but their BIOSes are locked down with Secure Flash and thus custom BIOSes cannot be used. Custom BIOSes for the MSI models exist, and can be used, but do not fix it. If CPU power is truly important to you, you want an older MQ-using machine from Clevo, Alienware or POSSIBLY ASUS (not tested on ASUS) or a desktop CPU-using laptop.

So the chips suck but your laptops can be really thin now, so that's good, right?

What do the letters at the end of their names mean?

As of Ivy Bridge and later:

M = These are socketed chips... this means I can take it out and put in a new one if I feel like it, just like on a desktop.

H = These are soldered, unlike the M chips. They cannot be changed at all without a motherboard change. They often (not always) also have higher turbo boost potentials (not higher OC potentials), have Iris Pro graphics and contain no extreme variants (regardless of what MSI's marketing team says about their GT80 Titan).

Q = These are quadcores.

X = These are unlocked quadcores.

U = These are "Ultra Low Voltage", also called "ULV". There are no quadcore ULV chips; only dualcore + hyperthreading. They are very very weak and not meant for heavy workloads of any kind. All ULV chips are unable to overclock.

If a chip does NOT have a "Q" or an "X" at the end of the name, BUT contains a M or H, then it is not a quadcore, even if it has i7 in the name. There ARE dual-core mobile i7s. Macs use them.

If a chip does NOT have a "X" in its name, it is NOT an "extreme" CPU. I don't care who says what. If there's a "Q" and not a "X", it's not an extreme chip.

The point of the H-series chips is usually because it has a lower profile, allowing for a lower profile heatsink to be installed for thinner notebooks. Be wary again though, that thinner notebooks usually cool much worse; case in point the GS70 Stealth. So be wary of what you want to buy and what you want to use it for. Also, as of ~August 2014, ALL new notebooks use soldered (or ULV) chips from Intel, including the GT72 and GT80 Titan people are raving about from MSI (except Clevo's P750ZM and P770ZM with desktop CPU sockets). This means that MSI's GT80 Titan with its "extreme CPU" is not selling an extreme CPU at all (feel free to legally demand they change this advertisement). No new laptop is. Hopefully broadwell returns us to socketed CPUs, Ain't happenin; Intel only plans to release a "H" line for broadwell's mainstream laptop CPUs. We have officially stepped backwards ~13 years in laptop hardware.

I hope this clears up a bit about how mobile CPUs work; I don't really see too much more that I need to add here, but I hope this helps you all understand things better.

Also, some of the pictures shown are from a friend of mine, Mr. Fox, over on notebookreview forums. I don't own a XM or MX chip, so I showed you his pictures of high OCs instead.

If you're looking for the SLI information guide or the vRAM information guide, they're in my sig!

May God bless you for taking the time to create this.

[Brandon Cassie]

Thank you for this information, I can now forward this to my stubborn friends who seem to think any i7 is godly

[D2ultima]

May God bless you for taking the time to create this.

If it helps you, then I'm glad.

 

Thank you for this information, I can now forward this to my stubborn friends who seem to think any i7 is godly

Haha go for it! I'm fed up with people who always assume anything is just fine. For most gaming, 3.3-3.5GHz would definitely be fine on an i7, but it doesn't mean it's the best thing in the world for a user trying to say... stream on that same machine. Especially witha  47W TDP lock, etc etc.

[Brandon Cassie]

This is a little dated and off topic, but can I OC my i5 560M? I'd love to squeeze some more life out of it

No buddy, unfortunately this isn't possible to my knowledge, had one myself in an old Toshiba, no options...

[Electronics Wizardy]

Unfortunately, I have not fiddled with desktop turbo clocks. I know for sure they work very differently from mobile turbos, which work 24/7 as needed, so you would have to find this information elsewhere. Sorry I couldn't help more.

The 3.8 turbo is only when using one core, when using all core the cpu turbo's at 3.6 and will stay at 3.6 unless it is over power or heat or current limits.

[D2ultima]

The 3.8 turbo is only when using one core, when using all core the cpu turbo's at 3.6 and will stay at 3.6 unless it is over power or heat or current limits.

What are you talking about? Did you read the whole guide?

[Electronics Wizardy]

What are you talking about? Did you read the whole guide?

The turbo on the xeon e3 1231 v3. Intel does limit turbo speeds if you are using all cores.

[D2ultima]

The turbo on the xeon e3 1231 v3. Intel does limit turbo speeds if you are using all cores.

If you mean when i was talking to that guy, I didn't know that chip at the time so I didn't answer him. I do know now however. But what does that have to do with the mobile i7s?

[D2ultima]

Bump; fixed throttle reasons, expanded on current limit, preliminary preparations for Skylake's new letter and a little info for broadwell/skylake's HQ line.

[D2ultima]

Reworked guide, bump.

 

ALSO. ANYBODY WHO HAS A SKYLAKE HQ OR HK CPU-USING LAPTOP AND WILL RUN TESTS FOR ME, PLEASE CONTACT ME. I need to find out how they work with regards to TDP throttling.

[byalexandr]

You're welcome! That's the point of these guides I write whenever I get bored enough to do another one (and/or see enough people confused).

Shoulda posted in Guides and Tutorials.

[D2ultima]

Shoulda posted in Guides and Tutorials.

My other two are are under graphics cards because they deal with graphics cards. This deals with CPUs, so I left it here.

[Ivelin__]

Arrendale? 1st gen. I have a i3-370m, is a 560m worth the money?

[D2ultima]

Arrendale? 1st gen. I have a i3-370m, is a 560m worth the money?

It'll definitely be a decent bit faster. If turboing correctly, it should sit near about 2.9-3GHz when both cores are loaded.

 

The question is how much it's costing you. 500-600MHz on a dual core, even with an older architecture, isn't really a small bump, but 1st gen might be something you might want to upgrade from, depending on what you're using it for. I wouldn't pay more than about $80 for that i5-560M upgrade today.

[Ivelin__]

It'll definitely be a decent bit faster. If turboing correctly, it should sit near about 2.9-3GHz when both cores are loaded.

The question is how much it's costing you. 500-600MHz on a dual core, even with an older architecture, isn't really a small bump, but 1st gen might be something you might want to upgrade from, depending on what you're using it for. I wouldn't pay more than about $80 for that i5-560M upgrade today.

50€ at max here. The problem is that the laptop has become shit- HDD has bad sectors, screen has dead pixels, battery life is 5 minutes...

I was asking- will you do arrendale guide?

[D2ultima]

50€ at max here. The problem is that the laptop has become shit- HDD has bad sectors, screen has dead pixels, battery life is 5 minutes...

I was asking- will you do arrendale guide?

I don't know enough to go that far back for the mobile sector, unfortunately.

[D2ultima]

Bump because it's been about half a year.

[PokeCatz]

@D2ultima

 

I have a Clevo w650sz

 

It has an i7 4700MQ

 

When running cinebench r15 I can get it to turbo to 3.17 GHz at like 80 C. RIP. However I have never reapplied the thermal paste in my 3 years of using it so... It has 627 cinebench incase you were wondering. Also, is there a way to overclock the GPU only? How far do you think this system could OC with new thermal paste? Linking a pic.

 

Spoiler

Sorry for that random sports authority card

 

[D2ultima]

49 minutes ago, PokeCatz said:

I have a Clevo w650sz

 

It has an i7 4700MQ

 

When running cinebench r15 I can get it to turbo to 3.17 GHz at like 80 C. RIP. However I have never reapplied the thermal paste in my 3 years of using it so... It has 627 cinebench incase you were wondering. Also, is there a way to overclock the GPU only? How far do you think this system could OC with new thermal paste? Linking a pic.

 

Mmm I think there should be a way to overclock the GPU a bit, but that might be BIOS-blocked for you. If you really want to give it a try, consider contacting Prema via this website and requesting information about a BIOS mod for your W650SZ. His mods are free, but donations help him eh... pick up the pace, let's say xD. It might well be that your machine doesn't even support it, so consider that too.

 

As for the cinebench, 3.2GHz for a 4700MQ on 4-core load is correct. You're doing well if you can manage to keep your turbo and not overheat on that with a Blast Furnace CPU. I think 627 sounds give or take about right; not too sure. I've seen other 4710HQ machines that are throttling via power or heat get under 600, so it makes sense for you to be over it.

 

I would suggest, if you want, to repaste with IC Diamond at the minimum. If you can verify that your heatsink is copper and not aluminum (it looks copper to me) and you feel confident enough, then you can use liquid metal pastes. I recommend Coolaboratory Liquid Ultra or Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut (link added because hard to find, apparently). Be careful if ever removing IC Diamond. Most people tend to scrub it off with alcohol/solvent-soaked cloth, which just scratches the dies and heatsinks. You need to soak ICD, or gently dab at it with say... a cotton swab (like for your ears) soaked in solvent/alcohol until it WANTS to come off. Then it'll be just fine. The instructions say that's how it needs to be removed, but people don't listen because everything else works fine without listening, and then they complain.

[PokeCatz]

8 hours ago, D2ultima said:

Mmm I think there should be a way to overclock the GPU a bit, but that might be BIOS-blocked for you. If you really want to give it a try, consider contacting Prema via this website and requesting information about a BIOS mod for your W650SZ. His mods are free, but donations help him eh... pick up the pace, let's say xD. It might well be that your machine doesn't even support it, so consider that too.

 

As for the cinebench, 3.2GHz for a 4700MQ on 4-core load is correct. You're doing well if you can manage to keep your turbo and not overheat on that with a Blast Furnace CPU. I think 627 sounds give or take about right; not too sure. I've seen other 4710HQ machines that are throttling via power or heat get under 600, so it makes sense for you to be over it.

 

I would suggest, if you want, to repaste with IC Diamond at the minimum. If you can verify that your heatsink is copper and not aluminum (it looks copper to me) and you feel confident enough, then you can use liquid metal pastes. I recommend Coolaboratory Liquid Ultra or Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut (link added because hard to find, apparently). Be careful if ever removing IC Diamond. Most people tend to scrub it off with alcohol/solvent-soaked cloth, which just scratches the dies and heatsinks. You need to soak ICD, or gently dab at it with say... a cotton swab (like for your ears) soaked in solvent/alcohol until it WANTS to come off. Then it'll be just fine. The instructions say that's how it needs to be removed, but people don't listen because everything else works fine without listening, and then they complain.

I've verified 625 (I think) in the LTT Cinebench Score Submissions. How would I know if it is copper? My laptop is like 5 pounds so that's probably where all the weight comes from. I mean it does a good job keeping the turbo i7 cool so... No thermal throttling, however 80c is still a bit hot for me. It idles at 50 C with no fans on and doesn't try kicking on the fans until the past second like at 60-65 C

 

I guess this is a good system for doing CPU stuff since it has intergrated graphics and there is no GPU producing tons of heat.

 

I will try contacting Prema but I may not have time for it. Also it could be months before I get around to re applying thermal paste because this is a "family" computer and if I jack anything up they would be so mad at me, I wouldn't be there child anymore. 

 

Also not even sure how to overclock CPU so probably would need that modded bios.

[D2ultima]

7 hours ago, PokeCatz said:

How would I know if it is copper?

 

I mean it does a good job keeping the turbo i7 cool so... No thermal throttling, however 80c is still a bit hot for me. It idles at 50 C with no fans on and doesn't try kicking on the fans until the past second like at 60-65 C

 

I guess this is a good system for doing CPU stuff since it has intergrated graphics and there is no GPU producing tons of heat.

 

I will try contacting Prema but I may not have time for it. Also it could be months before I get around to re applying thermal paste because this is a "family" computer and if I jack anything up they would be so mad at me, I wouldn't be there child anymore. 

 

Also not even sure how to overclock CPU so probably would need that modded bios.

You'd either look, or contact the seller and ask them to verify. Though it looks wholly copper to me, I can't see the contact point which COULD be aluminum (though I would be surprised if it was).

 

Here's a trick. When you're under CPU stressing, press FN + 1. Press it again when you're idling. I hope you've been cleaning the system regularly too =D.

 

That was the purpose of the machine. A literal workstation type machine.

 

Up to you entirely, though as long as you take the proper steps (grounding yourself, etc) there should be no issues.

 

You need BIOS support for overclocking, which I doubt your workstation-esque machine has. You could get +200MHz on the overclock, for 3.4GHz under 4-core load.

[PokeCatz]

2 hours ago, D2ultima said:

You'd either look, or contact the seller and ask them to verify. Though it looks wholly copper to me, I can't see the contact point which COULD be aluminum (though I would be surprised if it was).

 

Here's a trick. When you're under CPU stressing, press FN + 1. Press it again when you're idling. I hope you've been cleaning the system regularly too =D.

 

That was the purpose of the machine. A literal workstation type machine.

 

Up to you entirely, though as long as you take the proper steps (grounding yourself, etc) there should be no issues.

 

You need BIOS support for overclocking, which I doubt your workstation-esque machine has. You could get +200MHz on the overclock, for 3.4GHz under 4-core load.

What does Fn + 1 do?

[D2ultima]

1 minute ago, PokeCatz said:

What does Fn + 1 do?

Try it and you'll see =D. Remember to press it again to cancel the effect =D.

[PokeCatz]

41 minutes ago, D2ultima said:

Try it and you'll see =D. Remember to press it again to cancel the effect =D.

It turns all fans to Warp 9 

 

However, sometimes it will turn from max to extremely low to max very quickly.

[D2ultima]

2 minutes ago, PokeCatz said:

It turns all fans to Warp 9 

 

However, sometimes it will turn from max to extremely low to max very quickly.

Now when you need cooling, use Warp 9 mode.

 

It shouldn't go to low then back to max when forced to max. Also, your fans only hit 80% max speed on "auto". Warp 9 will cool better than auto, without a doubt.