Programmers Lounge

[kingdorian]

In my experience, Computer Science people HATED learning about hardware and electronics, and the Engineers had little interest in programming (apart from the odd few). I was in the perfect course because I loved learning about both.

 

This is my experience too, people at Software and computer engineering at my study also hate the subject computer organisation which is basically learning about hardware and programming in Assembly, everyone hates that last part. But I love it...  But it also differs for different Universities here in the Netherlands what I study is called "Computer Science and engineering" at a technical university (studies like civil, Architecture, mechanical engineering and stuff like that) You can also study it at more alpha side universities, on which you can follow a lot of language or economical studies then it is called just "Computer Science". Ofcourse there is a huge difference between the study at those two types of universities aswell. That's why I choose for doing this study at the first one (Maybe also a little bit because its 10minutes from my house (A))

So all of that makes it hard to compare the same study in the same country, let alone compare it between different universities in different countries

[TizzyT]

CSS also isn't programming.

Nor is HTML, for that matter.

Good point, though my original post states "languages" I work with or I've at least touched on, whether it was programming or not was not specified as I would be saying high level, scripting, and markup etc but the list simply states "languages"

[Lumi]

CSS also isn't programming.

Nor is HTML, for that matter.

YOU DON'T SAY.. >insert sarcasm

[LukeTim]

YOU DON'T SAY.. >insert sarcasm

 

I do say.

[Lumi]

I do say.

Please use an exit bag.

[LukeTim]

Please use an exit bag.

 I don't know what is going on.

[FourBit]

I spent about a year learning the most widely used web languages, I'm fluent in js, html, php, css, ruby, python. I also can make some simple iOS apps. To go along, whenever Barnacules releases a Codegasm episode, I'll watch that.

[FourBit]

CSS also isn't programming.

Nor is HTML, for that matter.

Technically it is when it comes to webkit. Also, SCSS, Sass, Less are more advanced than regular CSS. If you've ever done animations, they're a pain to make. IMO it's considered a basic language.

[LukeTim]

Technically it is when it comes to webkit. Also, SCSS, Sass, Less are more advanced than regular CSS. If you've ever done animations, they're a pain to make. IMO it's considered a basic language.

 

If it doesn't compile to machine code to ultimately be executed directly by the CPU, I'm not sure it can be.

 

I agree that SASS and LESS blur the lines somewhat.

[Maximation]

This is my experience too, people at Software and computer engineering at my study also hate the subject computer organisation which is basically learning about hardware and programming in Assembly, everyone hates that last part. But I love it...  But it also differs for different Universities here in the Netherlands what I study is called "Computer Science and engineering" at a technical university (studies like civil, Architecture, mechanical engineering and stuff like that) You can also study it at more alpha side universities, on which you can follow a lot of language or economical studies then it is called just "Computer Science". Ofcourse there is a huge difference between the study at those two types of universities aswell. That's why I choose for doing this study at the first one (Maybe also a little bit because its 10minutes from my house (A))

So all of that makes it hard to compare the same study in the same country, let alone compare it between different universities in different countries

 

Aha, so you are studying at a technical university. I am in 5 vwo at the moment and I will probably go with a CS study at a tech. uni. Could you share your experiences you think are relevant to choosing a study and university with us, and maybe tell us a bit more about yourself and the knowledge you possibly already had before you went to uni? Thank you.

EDIT: Also, at which university are you studying? Delft, Eindhoven or Enschede?

[kingdorian]

Aha, so you are studying at a technical university. I am in 5 vwo at the moment and I will probably go with a CS study at a tech. uni. Could you share your experiences you think are relevant to choosing a study and university with us, and maybe tell us a bit more about yourself and the knowledge you possibly already had before you went to uni? Thank you.

EDIT: Also, at which university are you studying? Delft, Eindhoven or Enschede?

Thats a lot of questions . First the most simple one: I'm studying in Delft. I choose this one because I live really close to it (25min on a bike) but that is ofcourse a very stupid reason. I ofcourse also went to Eindhoven and Twente. However I liked the atmosphere at Delft most. I mean in the faculty but mostly on the campus, especially Eindhoven felt much more like a (ehm what is it called in English) area of the city where a lot of companies are located (I guess??) then the real campus feel that you have at TuD but all these things are really personally. But the most important advice is to just go on "meeloopdagen" see how it really is on that particular University and study.

For my knowledge before I started: I knew a couple of programming languages and more important I was quite good with Java. But this is not necessary at all. However what IS necessary is a good grade for wiskunde B. Not because all the statistics say only 20% of the people with under a 7 blablablabla. But because the subject calculus (Which a lot of my fellow students struggle with) is a lot easier when you have a good understanding of the stuff that is covered in middle school. Note: Calculus is basically the whole wiskunde B (and a bit of D) middle school stuff but then a lot more in dept and rushed trough in 3 months. Almost all concepts are familiar but they're one (or more) steps more advanced. For example how do you find a maximum or minimum from a function with 3 variables f(x,y,z).

So don't bother too much about "ohh I can't program so I can't do CS" which a lot of my friends say. Because after a couple of months almost everyone is on the same level anyway.  

 

Also you should be able to understand and speak English decent because some subjects are in English at the bachelor and all subjects are in English at the master. But that should not be a problem I think.

But I cannot stress it enough: Make sure you're math is on a 7+ level.

 

I hope this made at least a tiny bit of sense. If you have more questions feel free to ask me here or pm me.

[Maximation]

Thats a lot of questions . First the most simple one: I'm studying in Delft. I choose this one because I live really close to it (25min on a bike) but that is ofcourse a very stupid reason. I ofcourse also went to Eindhoven and Twente. However I liked the atmosphere at Delft most. I mean in the faculty but mostly on the campus, especially Eindhoven felt much more like a (ehm what is it called in English) area of the city where a lot of companies are located (I guess??) then the real campus feel that you have at TuD but all these things are really personally. But the most important advice is to just go on "meeloopdagen" see how it really is on that particular University and study.

For my knowledge before I started: I knew a couple of programming languages and more important I was quite good with Java. But this is not necessary at all. However what IS necessary is a good grade for wiskunde B. Not because all the statistics say only 20% of the people with under a 7 blablablabla. But because the subject calculus (Which a lot of my fellow students struggle with) is a lot easier when you have a good understanding of the stuff that is covered in middle school. Note: Calculus is basically the whole wiskunde B (and a bit of D) middle school stuff but then a lot more in dept and rushed trough in 3 months. Almost all concepts are familiar but they're one (or more) steps more advanced. For example how do you find a maximum or minimum from a function with 3 variables f(x,y,z).

So don't bother too much about "ohh I can't program so I can't do CS" which a lot of my friends say. Because after a couple of months almost everyone is on the same level anyway.  

 

Also you should be able to understand and speak English decent because some subjects are in English at the bachelor and all subjects are in English at the master. But that should not be a problem I think.

But I cannot stress it enough: Make sure you're math is on a 7+ level.

 

I hope this made at least a tiny bit of sense. If you have more questions feel free to ask me here or pm me.

 

Thank you very much for your reply and your different vision on CS studies, I did not hear anyone until now about the math part of it

I think I will be covered on the math part though (I had a 9 averaged at the end of 4vwo), but good to know it will be important.

English should absolutely be no problem, as I have been learning everything about CS in English so far.

 

But, could you tell something about your experiences with your classes and subject? What kind of projects are you working on in different years (what year are you in?)? What is the developing standard in each year (what will be expected of you to be able to create)?

 

Thank you very much for taking your time to answer my questions, I really appreciate it.

[kingdorian]

Thank you very much for your reply and your different vision on CS studies, I did not hear anyone until now about the math part of it

I think I will be covered on the math part though (I had a 9 averaged at the end of 4vwo), but good to know it will be important.

English should absolutely be no problem, as I have been learning everything about CS in English so far.

 

But, could you tell something about your experiences with your classes and subject? What kind of projects are you working on in different years (what year are you in?)? What is the developing standard in each year (what will be expected of you to be able to create)?

 

Thank you very much for taking your time to answer my questions, I really appreciate it.

Thats really hard to tell since I'm only just 3 months in. But you can find the program of the study (at Tu Delft) somewhere on the internet I think. We have a OOP project in 2nd quarter for example. We don't know the exact subject yet however last year the assignment was to build a spreadsheet program (so after 3 months in) with a group of around 4 persons I think. Also I heard some higher year students say the subjects don't necessarily get harder the more you advance in the study. Which you could see as a good or a bad thing. 

 

What do you exactly mean about classes and subjects? Do you mean the courses, so like Calculus, Object oriented programming, Redeneren & logica and stuff like that?

We will also be doing some bot programming for unreal tournament bots and there will be a smal tournament between groups later this year for example.

[Maximation]

Thats really hard to tell since I'm only just 3 months in. But you can find the program of the study (at Tu Delft) somewhere on the internet I think. We have a OOP project in 2nd quarter for example. We don't know the exact subject yet however last year the assignment was to build a spreadsheet program (so after 3 months in) with a group of around 4 persons I think. Also I heard some higher year students say the subjects don't necessarily get harder the more you advance in the study. Which you could see as a good or a bad thing. 

 

What do you exactly mean about classes and subjects? Do you mean the courses, so like Calculus, Object oriented programming, Redeneren & logica and stuff like that?

We will also be doing some bot programming for unreal tournament bots and there will be a smal tournament between groups later this year for example.

 

Are you in your first year?

And yes, I mean courses. What do you do at the university? What will you learn, when do you get to work on what? I know this may vary from semester to semester (is it correct to talk about semesters like this?) and from university to university, but some real world examples would be great.

Sounds really fun so far! Thank you very much!

[kingdorian]

Are you in your first year?

And yes, I mean courses. What do you do at the university? What will you learn, when do you get to work on what? I know this may vary from semester to semester (is it correct to talk about semesters like this?) and from university to university, but some real world examples would be great.

Sounds really fun so far! Thank you very much!

Yeah I'm in my first year, I'm in the last week of my semester right now so the "tentamens"(/exams?) are this week. What you do varies very very much for each subject. Calculus for example is just a teacher makes some example exercises on a blackboard and you just have to make exercises yourself and you've got a couple of exams. OOP is some lectures (hoorcolleges) and a couple of hours of lab each week where you get a simple programming task you need to complete and have checked by a Lab assistant (usually higher years). I've done all the exercises at home. And I went only a couple of times to have them checked (not checked == failed for the course). The organization of the course Computer organization is a bit more complex the course is "gamified" as my teacher calls it. You can get points by doing a lot of different things for example answering a question or asking a good question during a lecture (50points), making exersizes about the theory in the book, or doing extra things in the lab for Computer organization, (assembly) I made a brainf*ck interpreter for example (check the 100line challenge thread) and ofcourse you can earn points answering questions correct at the exams (300 each). So you can get points by learning in the way you like to learn. (10.000=grade 10) I think I got a 10 for this subject

 

About the other courses this year I cannot say a lot yet but if you ask me in a couple of weeks/months again I might be able to give you some more information.

[Maximation]

Yeah I'm in my first year, I'm in the last week of my semester right now so the "tentamens"(/exams?) are this week. What you do varies very very much for each subject. Calculus for example is just a teacher makes some example exercises on a blackboard and you just have to make exercises yourself and you've got a couple of exams. OOP is some lectures (hoorcolleges) and a couple of hours of lab each week where you get a simple programming task you need to complete and have checked by a Lab assistant (usually higher years). I've done all the exercises at home. And I went only a couple of times to have them checked (not checked == failed for the course). The organization of the course Computer organization is a bit more complex the course is "gamified" as my teacher calls it. You can get points by doing a lot of different things for example answering a question or asking a good question during a lecture (50points), making exersizes about the theory in the book, or doing extra things in the lab for Computer organization, (assembly) I made a brainf*ck interpreter for example (check the 100line challenge thread) and ofcourse you can earn points answering questions correct at the exams (300 each). So you can get points by learning in the way you like to learn. (10.000=grade 10) I think I got a 10 for this subject

 

About the other courses this year I cannot say a lot yet but if you ask me in a couple of weeks/months again I might be able to give you some more information.

 

Thank you very much! If you are still interested in answering more questions, I will ask some more questions in a couple of weeks/months.

I really want to go to university now, do not want to do high school anymore

[kingdorian]

Thank you very much! If you are still interested in answering more questions, I will ask some more questions in a couple of weeks/months.

I really want to go to university now, do not want to do high school anymore

Well you're almost done, just a year of doing nothing left in 6vwo (that's what I did atleast ) its almost only repeating thesame stuff from 4vwo and 5vwo

[grimmjow660]

Where can I learn this stuff to get into I.T?

[babbaj]

Where can I learn this stuff to get into I.T?

street smarts

[grimmjow660]

street smarts

How so? And what programs can I download to get started and learn?

I heard taking classes is pointless since things change

[-TesseracT-]

I started programming in C# early september, so I'm still a beginner at it.

[Maximation]

Well you're almost done, just a year of doing nothing left in 6vwo (that's what I did atleast ) its almost only repeating thesame stuff from 4vwo and 5vwo

Haha nice! This stuff is so easy.

[kingdorian]

I heard taking classes is pointless since things change

This the most common fucking misconception there is. In fact there does not change a lot, if you look at for example Java, apart from some (but not major) new features it is about thesame as the java 10 or 15 years ago. And we still use thesame concepts in computers that we used when the first desktops for home release got on the marked. You only have to make sure you keep up with new things and stuff after you have taken classes but its just bullshit stuff changes so fast that there is no point in taking classes... Ofcourse computer science changes a little bit more then studies like History (changes more then you would think) or Biology stuff. 

 

Just do some reading first on internet "Where to start" is not a good question....

[Mo5]

I feel like I should join this "conversation"...

I'm currently studying programming (first year) and we're working in Java and C, but JavaScript will come in the next couple months. Outside school I have played with C# (following Barnacules' tutorials) and Ruby (Codecademy).

[prolemur]

Hey guys I've been interested in programming for a while before I knew what it really was, I just wanted to make a video game.

A few years ago in school I learned Turing and made my first program which was a lame name guessing game

Now I'm doing Java in school, and c++ on the side and want to get into either SDL or SFML can't make up my mind.

Anyways I'd love to talk to some of you guys and maybe sit in on you making a program or something to get some insight as I haven't really had the opportunity to ever sit there and question why a programmer is typing that code or suggesting other ways of solving the same problem.