Windows 8.1 (Blue): new features!

[mrthuvi]

You can pin folders to the Start screen, actually. And a 1080p would show more than 20 programs and folders, so...

(Also I think he meant in the All Programs pane.)

And i remain correct. Goodbye specifically stated "Start menu".

And yes, it takes time to remove Aero/rework DWM, but it's much lighter on performance, so that's sort of nice.

Please bring me evidence that aero is resource-hogging. Cos i've seen benchmark and disable aero doesn't any performance improvement, even battery life.

 

And Windows 8.1 is bringing back unified search.

And File Explorer is being integrated into the SkyDrive app.

Okay, i didn't know anything about these two. And you are talking about things that doesn't happen yet. I remain skeptical until final version is out.

[arkon]

And i remain correct. Goodbye specifically stated "Start menu".

Please bring me evidence that aero is resource-hogging. Cos i've seen benchmark and disable aero doesn't any performance improvement, even battery life.

 

Okay, i didn't know anything about these two. And you are talking about things that doesn't happen yet. I remain skeptical until final version is out.

 

I'm fairly certain that DWM uses less resources in Windows 8 when compared to Windows 7... not sure.

Not even sure why you like Aero so much. I used to like it too, but it seems pretty messy whenever I go back to Windows 7. Personal preference, I guess.

 

Both unified search and the file explorer (updated SkyDrive app) are in leaked builds from at least a month ago.

[mrthuvi]

arkon, on 30 May 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

I'm fairly certain that DWM uses less resources in Windows 8 when compared to Windows 7... not sure.

Not even sure why you like Aero so much. I used to like it too, but it seems pretty messy whenever I go back to Windows 7. Personal preference, I guess.

Both unified search and the file explorer (updated SkyDrive app) are in leaked builds from at least a month ago.

Yeah, i just can't let go of old things. I actually delayed upgrading to windows 7 from windows vista for as long as i could because of toolbar and windows media player 11. I figured out how to get the toolbar back but i had to gave up on downgrading windows media player 12 to 11 on windows 7 because of how buggy it was.

I like to explore new things too, i tried out beta versions of windows Vista, 7 and 8. Some people seem to think that people don't like windows 8 just because they don't understand how to use it and those people keep trying to "educate" everyone about it. I'm here to tell you that i don't like windows 8 because i don't like windows 8.

[GoodBytes]

Like this ?: I have a 1600x900 monitor and i can pin 20 programs or folders in there. 1080p can pin even more.

Please, they are not the same, they are separated by Apps, settings and Files. Unified search in windows 7 is better. I can type [star button]/cmd/enter and boom, cmd is brought up. [star button]/user account/enter ;user account is brought up. Tell me how you navigate in windows 8 search again?

Actually it takes more time to remove aero completely than to disable aero by default.

Windows 8 is a freaking non-uniform experience. Why? File Explorer is in windows mode, not Modern UI. It would be faster to list the things that exist in modern ui than to list the things still in windows mode.

No, you can't. You have done a registry hack to get these folders in. And that breaks the flow of the Start Menu... the right side are folders... not the left... and the right side you can't put any folder you want beside the predefined ones.

Modern UI folder explorer didn't make the cut in Win8, yes. It will come to Win8.1, which is a free update.

 

The search is separate but not 'stupid'... it searches just as well as in Win7. It's the same engine.

 

Please bring me evidence that aero is resource-hogging. Cos i've seen benchmark and disable aero doesn't any performance improvement, even battery life.

 

Okay, i didn't know anything about these two. And you are talking about things that doesn't happen yet. I remain skeptical until final version is out.

When you run a program in full screen that is using OpenGL or DirectX, DWM is disabled on the window automatically.

As for the behind the game.. well its quiet simple. Since the early days of 3D capable graphic cards, they have an embedded optimization system, which makes the GPU not draw anything that you don't see on your screen. Pretty clever. Makes everyone life soooo much easier. So, your benchmark have no performance loss. :)

 

Windows 8 got further optimization on it's interface rendering engine, and of course, without glass, it makes things run smoother. This was done, obviously to accommodate tablets, and also help increase laptop battery life.

[mrthuvi]

No, you can't. You have done a registry hack to get these folders in. And that breaks the flow of the Start Menu... the right side are folders... not the left... and the right side you can't put any folder you want beside the predefined ones.

Modern UI folder explorer didn't make the cut in Win8, yes. It will come to Win8.1, which is a free update.

Please, by all means, try it for yourself to see i hacked it or whatever. It has been there since vista, not some revolutionary change. 

The search is separate but not 'stupid'... it searches just as well as in Win7. It's the same engine.

I.. just... What? The UI is freaking different (as that's what i've been talking about), why do you keep bringing up the search engine. Now tell me, a unified search or separate search is better? I think that if i have to type in the search to look something up, i'd better know what i'm supposed to look up in the first place, not needing to browse through different categories. It's just like one day google decided to categorize your search results to news, forums, websites,... instead of one unified search page.

When you run a program in full screen that is using OpenGL or DirectX, DWM is disabled on the window automatically.

As for the behind the game.. well its quiet simple. Since the early days of 3D capable graphic cards, they have an embedded optimization system, which makes the GPU not draw anything that you don't see on your screen. Pretty clever. Makes everyone life soooo much easier. So, your benchmark have no performance loss. :)

 

Windows 8 got further optimization on it's interface rendering engine, and of course, without glass, it makes things run smoother. This was done, obviously to accommodate tablets, and also help increase laptop battery life.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Even if you disable aero (and as you have said, GPU doesn't draw any fancy glass effect), battery benchmark still show no battery life improvement.

Of course this means that you acknowledge what you said earlier about saving time by removing aero is incorrect, is that right?

[GoodBytes]

Please, by all means, try it for yourself to see i hacked it or whatever. It has been there since vista, not some revolutionary change.

Sorry, but you played with your registry.

They are countless tutorial on this hack on the web. Here is one: http://windows7themes.net/pin-folders-to-start-menu-in-windows-7.html

 

I.. just... What? The UI is freaking different (as that's what i've been talking about), why do you keep bringing up the search engine. Now tell me, a unified search or separate search is better? I think that if i have to type in the search to look something up, i'd better know what i'm supposed to look up in the first place, not needing to browse through different categories. It's just like one day google decided to categorize your search results to news, forums, websites,... instead of one unified search page.

Now you are changing to the representation of search results. So it's not stupid, the presentation of search result is stupid. Big difference. But yea I agree with you on that one. Also shutting down the PC is a pain. Both of which are rumored to be improved in Windows 8.1

 

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Even if you disable aero (and as you have said, GPU doesn't draw any fancy glass effect), battery benchmark still show no battery life improvement.

Funny, on my laptop, I lose battery life with Aero disabled :)

The reason is simple, The CPU sucks at drawing, it always did. That is why we have graphic card, and Intel has it's integrated graphic solution on it's chipset or CPU depending on how old or new the computer is, and if it has one. On my side, my laptop GPU consumes the same amount of power between drawing Aero and not, as it stays at minimum power all the time, as it's easy for it to do such task. SO when I disable Aero, the CPU struggles as I move windows. If I shake a window continuously one of my core on the CPU spikes at 100%. While if I did this on my GPU, it won't pass 10%.

In your case, it just happen that you have a perfect balance between your GPU requiring more power to draw Aero, and your CPU drawing more power for Aero basic, or you are not allowing enough time for the battery circuit to adjust it's prediction on remaining battery life time.

[S2000Gan]

Sounds like few changes.

It should been this way in the beginning and the name should have been Windows 7.5

Nah, "Windows 7 Touch"

[mrthuvi]

Sorry, but you played with your registry.

They are countless tutorial on this hack on the web. Here is one: http://windows7themes.net/pin-folders-to-start-menu-in-windows-7.html

No, i didn't change anything to achieve that. 100% vanilla windows. And i pinned those folders just to show you that it can be done, i don't pin folders there cos i use clover bookmark.

BTW, i just read that article you mentioned. I don't pin folders that way (right click sent to start menu). Drag your folder to the start menu icon and it shows "Pin to start menu." No hack needed. Folders, files, anything can be pinned.

[gjrud]

[...]

Windows 8 has a steep learning curve. People that go in with an open mind, and ready to learn something new, end up loving Windows 8.

Those that don't, hate Windows 8.

[...]

 

I'm sorry but this is a generalization, as I said to you in a different topic I use windows 8 at work and I develop apps for it yet I dislike it (as the rest of my co-workers).

I see this changes and I'm wondering if microsoft can be that dumb (sorry, lack of better terms), start button or not the way of opening the start menu was pretty similar and I'm sure that most of the complains are not for just the lack of icon but rather because the new start screen feels and works differently, and not in a good way.

Let's forget that these boxes look as terrible as the one I make in MS Paint and that they occupy an unnatural amount of space (even the smallest one), the start screen is just an additional step that discontinues your experience without any possible reason, because I'm pretty sure a small "overlay" would have worked just fine.

Oh, right, we must push an input system that is slower, less precise and lacks of physical feedback because now it's the cool thing around.

What I dislike the most is that they wanted to make a touch oriented change to the OS but for the fear of being bashed for it they tried to mix it up with the "classic" experience that most were used to, resulting in an abomination that is neither of the two and it's being bashed far more than it would have been if they took the decision and stuck with it. I'm sorry if I'm defining it some sort of monster, but the result is an OS made out of 2 different parts that have an hard time coexisting, breaking the experience even more the moment you are required to switch between the two very often. The fact that you can't have an app and a program at the same time on screen it's just abysmal and I can't see how any could be ok with it considering they could have easily avoided it (hell, even by emulation, it would have been better).

 

I'm sorry if this sounded as an attack, I tried to explain myself at my best. I don't have any issue with you or who else likes this W8, I just don't like people that keep saying to me that I don't like it because I didn't give it a chance.

 

TL;DR:

[arkon]

Official news from Microsoft here: http://feedly.com/k/15e5o4y

[gjrud]

Sorry, but you played with your registry.

They are countless tutorial on this hack on the web. Here is one: http://windows7themes.net/pin-folders-to-start-menu-in-windows-7.html

 

Sorry I forgot to answer this part, I just checked, you can now pin folders to the start menu in windows 7, probably they added the functionality with an update.

I just drag it over the start icon, let the start menu open and then I stop holding the left click in the position I want it to, I haven't done any editing to the register, I didn't even know there was this issue before know. 

if you click on it it will open the folder, you can't navigate it in the menu like you do with program's ones, were you referring to this when you said you can't pin them?

[That Norwegian Guy]

Wow, what a feature rich release, I'm absolutely blown away at the sheer heft of this monolithic upgrade, that sure was 6 months well spent, Microsoft!

 

Maybe in 12 months they can fix unsigned drivers being blocked, yeah, how about that.

[arkon]

Wow, what a feature rich release, I'm absolutely blown away at the sheer heft of this monolithic upgrade, that sure was 6 months well spent, Microsoft!

Maybe in 12 months they can fix unsigned drivers being blocked, yeah, how about that.

That's always been an issue, hasn't it? Even in previous versions of Windows?

[That Norwegian Guy]

That's always been an issue, hasn't it? Even in previous versions of Windows?

Not really, in Windows 7 you can unblock them yourself permanently. In Windows 8, you can only do so temporarily when you do an "advanced boot", thus making the whole thing a completely unusable pain in the rectum. And the advanced boot doesn't even help with all hardware. If it doesn't you'll have to enable test mode and sign the damn thing yourself.

[Loe]

Do you still have to ALT F4 to close programs?

I never used Alt F4 when I used Windows 8, I am assuming you mean apps, to close an app I put my mouse in the top left corner than right clicked the app and hit close.

[GoodBytes]

Not really, in Windows 7 you can unblock them yourself permanently. In Windows 8, you can only do so temporarily when you do an "advanced boot", thus making the whole thing a completely unusable pain in the rectum. And the advanced boot doesn't even help with all hardware. If it doesn't you'll have to enable test mode and sign the damn thing yourself.

Did you try installing the driver in Device Manager, not the driver setup. I was able to install unsigned driver this way.

[That Norwegian Guy]

Did you try installing the driver in Device Manager, not the driver setup. I was able to install unsigned driver this way.

 

There is no way to access the driver file itself. It's embedded in a USB device. (Mouse)

[arkon]

I never used Alt F4 when I used Windows 8, I am assuming you mean apps, to close an app I put my mouse in the top left corner than right clicked the app and hit close.

 

Or just go to the top of the screen, click and drag down.

[Loe]

Or just go to the top of the screen, click and drag down.

Surprisingly I do not think I ever did that apart from when I misclicked.

[arkon]

Surprisingly I do not think I ever did that apart from when I misclicked.

 

That's how I usually close apps, unless I'm using a trackpad.

[Loe]

That's how I usually close apps, unless I'm using a trackpad.

The only apps I ever used were by mistake really. I didn't like the skype app or the photo and stuff so I just changed it to not use them.

[mr-nipples]

Official link http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/05/30/continuing-the-windows-8-vision-with-windows-8-1.aspx

[arkon]

The only apps I ever used were by mistake really. I didn't like the skype app or the photo and stuff so I just changed it to not use them.

 

Heh yeah, I don't like the Skype app either (I just use the desktop version). I really only use Mail, Calendar, and Twitter.

 

Official link http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2013/05/30/continuing-the-windows-8-vision-with-windows-8-1.aspx

 

I posted a link to it (at the top of this page), but I'll edit the first post too. :)

[Chevaishr]

Do some of you guys mind explaining about that a bit more? I'm intrigued, as 99% of what I've heard before this thread was people raging about no start button.

 

More importantly, are they going to make the search global again? Splitting it up made no sense to me.

well since ppl have finally tried out the os .. they realised that they don't need the start button 

[Ngrungebb91]

It brings up the all apps screen and thats about it...

 

http://www.slashgear.com/windows-8-1-start-button-wont-do-what-you-expect-29284098/

 

If it brings up the apps menu then I may be pretty happy about that. Think of that as a updated start menu.... You can start searching with typing anything on that screen and it will search an application for you, you can pin settings and folders there. I don't think it will be bad. 

 

On a side note: After reading a lot of replies here on this forum about Windows 8 (and other things) it seems that people are really helping each other out and informing each other, instead on hating on each other for their lack of knowledge or... grammar... *COUGH, OCN, COUGH* So!! GREAT JOB EVERYONE AT LINUSTECHTIPS FORUM! We are awesome! :)