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Dietrichw

Valve taken to court by Australian consumer commission over Steam refund policy

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Guys i think your missing the point of the refund.

Its not there because you change your mind or because you didn't like the game

It is there for Major Defect reasons.

Down here in Australia we are protected under the law from large corporations via our ACCC

If a product is found to have a major flaw or defect that is unrepairable in a fair and reasonable period of time we are entitled to a refund. 

Valve as a company are trading in the confines of Australia and thus are required to respect the trade agreements and laws they trade under.

 

Also note guys, no matter what contract or fine print is written into a deal or purchase we are entitled to this right as Australian consumers

So no matter what Valve say or try to do, they are required to adhere to these laws.

 

Valve can easily work out a system to offer refunds. Every other trader inside Australia has worked it out, because they are legally obligated to.

 

This is the article people should be using for factual information as this is the grounds ACCC are taking on Valve.

http://www.accc.gov.au/business/treating-customers-fairly/warranties/warranties-against-defects

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Valve has refunded customers in the past. Remember the game warz? It was atrotious so valve refunded those who requested.

Under accc laws even gifts are able to be refunded. This would also make it for gifted games.

I play dota, a lot. I want a refund for the 500 hours of my life wasted in there!!

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Also note guys, no matter what contract or fine print is written into a deal or purchase

 

Just to ad to that, in Australia it is actually illegal to write fine print that contradicts consumer law in Australia. Trying to bypass consumer law with fine print or sales conditions is illegal. That is why at the end of all EULAs and warranty forms in Australia is a note that effectively says:  "this product comes with warranties that cannot be excluded under Australian law" or "the above warranty does not exclude legal obligations under Australian consumer law"

 

In fact there is no legal way to exclude statutory warranty or the right to a refund when a product is not suitable for it's intended purpose.  That intended purpose is defined as the reasonable expectation of a product based on an ad, salespersons description/explanation or any information given in a brochure or on the box.

 

 

Australians are really well looked after in this regard.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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Just to ad to that, in Australia it is actually illegal to write fine print that contradicts consumer law in Australia. Trying to bypass consumer law with fine print or sales conditions is illegal. That is why at the end of all EULAs and warranty forms in Australia is a note that effectively says:  "this product comes with warranties that cannot be excluded under Australian law" or "the above warranty does not exclude legal obligations under Australian consumer law"

 

In fact there is no legal way to exclude statutory warranty or the right to a refund when a product is not suitable for it's intended purpose.  That intended purpose is defined as the reasonable expectation of a product based on an ad, salespersons description/explanation or any information given in a brochure or on the box.

 

 

Australians are really well looked after in this regard.

 

Yep what he said, you can't contract out of Consumer warranties and rights in Australia. The ToS saying no refunds means sweet fuck all here because the Competition and Consumer act prevents companies from doing so.

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How do you get a faulty digital product?


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How do you get a faulty digital product?

Full of bugs to the point it's unplayable.


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Full of bugs to the point it's unplayable.

 

So, you buy a game from EA then?

 

Ow, Snap!


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So, you buy a game from EA then?

 

Ow, Snap!

EA(origin) gives refunds though


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So, you buy a game from EA then?

 

Ow, Snap!

 

 

EA(origin) gives refunds though

 

Bahahaha *rolls on the floor laughing*

 

Yes in this case, EA is the good guy :P If you bought a buggy EA game, you COULD get a refund. The irony of this little playout here is killing me.

 

@A.D.A.M you get one awesome cookie.


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How do you get a faulty digital product?

 

If the product does not work in any way intended it is faulty. 

I.E: does not play at full resolution as advertised (WD anyone), has a bug that causes any form of audio sync or jittering, fails to save games as promoted etc.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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fails to save games as promoted etc.

Never finished bf4 Sp because of this, not like it was any good though


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Never finished bf4 Sp because of this, not like it was any good though

I have an issue with ubisoft and heroes of might and magic doing exactly this, I just couldn't be arsed making an official complaint to the ACCC.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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By what logic to people have a "right" to demand a refund? You paid for it, deal with it like the rest of the world (to my knowledge). If I could get a refund on dayz standalone and watch dogs I would, but I can't so I just delete both and go on with my life.

Promised features of a game that are missing, right to a refund.

Game doesn't launch because of incompatibility that wasn't clarified before purchase, right to a refund.

Game is buggy and unplayable, right to a refund. 

 

Seems completely fair to me. 


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By what logic to people have a "right" to demand a refund? You paid for it, deal with it like the rest of the world (to my knowledge). If I could get a refund on dayz standalone and watch dogs I would, but I can't so I just delete both and go on with my life.

Yeah, not how it works. Here's a response to all the whine in this thread about this in video form.

http://youtu.be/uE8BB-ioNRw

 

If you CBFed watching it? In a nutshell Australian Consumer Law covers us for:

- Information about the product that would mislead a "reasonable person" 

- Products that aren't fit for purpose. Both the specified purpose on the box and what the salesperson said

- Products that aren't at a "suitable durability" for that type of product

 

It doesn't cover you changing your mind but it does make every statement about the product an implied guarantee

 

................ why is this such a crazy concept?


Fools think they know everything, experts know they know nothing

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................ why is this such a crazy concept?

IKR, making companies actually provide what they promise, mind blowing.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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I guess it's hard for people to "get" what a faulty piece of software is but it is the same thing at the end of the day. If you brought a something from a PC shop there are good reasons why you might want a refund.

 

For example if you brought a motherboard you'd be entitled to a refund if:

- It was a dud, wouldn't boot

- After a few months it died, the expectation is that a component like that would last years not months

- You were told by the sales guy that it supported a particular CPU or had a particular feature and it didn't

- Something it said on the box didn't work

 

but you wouldn't be covered if:

- You changed your mind about the colour

- You changed your mind about what sort of hardware you wanted to install

- It had been a LONG time since you brought the product. Long enough that you got a fair amount of use out of it

- You abused the product

 

 

Same stuff should apply to digital goods and services where it can apply


Fools think they know everything, experts know they know nothing

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Yeah, not how it works. Here's a response to all the whine in this thread about this in video form.

 

If you CBFed watching it? In a nutshell Australian Consumer Law covers us for:

- Information about the product that would mislead a "reasonable person" 

- Products that aren't fit for purpose. Both the specified purpose on the box and what the salesperson said

- Products that aren't at a "suitable durability" for that type of product

 

It doesn't cover you changing your mind but it does make every statement about the product an implied guarantee

 

................ why is this such a crazy concept?

Ok those things make sense then. I thought that it meant you had the right to just demand a refund for no reason at all. So by that logic, does xbox and playstation then own every single AUS customer a refund? lol


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Ok those things make sense then. I thought that it meant you had the right to just demand a refund for no reason at all. So by that logic, does xbox and playstation then own every single AUS customer a refund? lol

i suppose someone can say that its not really "next gen" and marketing it as such is false adverstisement.


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i suppose someone can say that its not really "next gen" and marketing it as such is false adverstisement.

I was thinking the line, and as far as I can remember they both say this, "the best gaming experience possible"


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GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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I was thinking the line, and as far as I can remember they both say this, "the best gaming experience possible"

Can't even run 1080p let alone 4K so...


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Can't even run 1080p let alone 4K so...

Not just that, but can't even run above 60fps. Most of the games aren't 1080p, those that are usually run at 30fps, the simple fact is, everything they claim is a lie


Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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Ok those things make sense then. I thought that it meant you had the right to just demand a refund for no reason at all. So by that logic, does xbox and playstation then own every single AUS customer a refund? lol

Well, to take your point way too seriously, you buy a game on consoles with the expectation that they'll perform about as well as most games do on consoles. It's common knowledge that game trailers are usually running on a fairly powerful PC. So if you buy a game on console you expect it to not look as good as it did in the advertising.

 

But where they might get into trouble is where they advertise the game using the PC spec and then cripple the PC version so it runs like it does on console. Every other PC game you've brought runs at a decent framerate, you expect that unless your PC is underpowered this new game will do the same. It's locked at 30fps. You couldn't have guessed that from the stuff in the description and it might ruin the game for you particularly if it's a fast paced game. In theory? Yeah, you should be able to ask for a refund. That's probably the least clear-cut example I can think of where I personally think you should get a refund. Anything less than that? Nope.


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Well, to take your point way too seriously, you buy a game on consoles with the expectation that they'll perform about as well as most games do on consoles. It's common knowledge that game trailers are usually running on a fairly powerful PC. So if you buy a game on console you expect it to not look as good as it did in the advertising.

 

But where they might get into trouble is where they advertise the game using the PC spec and then cripple the PC version so it runs like it does on console. Every other PC game you've brought runs at a decent framerate, you expect that unless your PC is underpowered this new game will do the same. It's locked at 30fps. You couldn't have guessed that from the stuff in the description and it might ruin the game for you particularly if it's a fast paced game. In theory? Yeah, you should be able to ask for a refund. That's probably the least clear-cut example I can think of where I personally think you should get a refund. Anything less than that? Nope.

I was talking about the people who bought consoles, not the games on the consoles. The console creators often espouse their creation as "the best gaming experience possible" or "light years ahead of PC" (to quote one rather idiotic CEO). Both statements are not true by any stretch of the imagination, at least to anyone who's educated themselves on the subject.


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GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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