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"How many watts do I need"? Check Here!

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Here i have also a page which tells you with each GPU in all SLI and Crossfire options http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm


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Does anyone know how to get someone to pin it so it stays at the top


Planned I Hope Someday I Do First Build: CPU: Intel Core i7 5820k CPU Cooler: CM Hyper 212 EVO Mobo: MSI X99S SLI PLUS RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (4x4GB) DDR4-2133Mhz Storage: Corsair Force LS 240GB SSD & 2TB WD Green Graphics Card: ASUS GTX 970 4GB Turbo Case: NZXT S340 White PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ OS: Windows 8.1 64-bit OEM Monitor: AOC i2267Fw 60Hz 22" Monitor

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Hope this reference guide was of help to you if you're looking to get a new PSU to upgrade or for a build. If there's anything that you feel can be added to this, or if you have any questions then let myself know. Thanks!

 

tbh, that recommendations aren't really that good ...

you are talking about minimum recommended, but include HUGE headrooms with almost any configuration.

Then you call the Corsair CX a quality PSU.


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Posted · Original PosterOP

tbh, that recommendations aren't really that good ...

you are talking about minimum recommended, but include HUGE headrooms with almost any configuration.

Then you call the Corsair CX a quality PSU.

The CX is acceptable for what it costs. Would you rather buy a Corsair CX or a Diablotek...


"Rawr XD"

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A few things: with an intel CPU and no (or just modest) overclocking you can get away with a really low wattage PSU (in theory). I measured my system with an overclocked i5 4670k and a GTX 770, both under 100% load. The highest spike was at 350W if I remember correctly. I'm not saying you should power that kind of rig with a 400W PSU, I'm just saying that many people vastly overestimate, especially when they want to power 2 GPUs (my 680W PSU could handle a second 770 and I know that people went as low as 600-650W for a 770 sli setup)

Something more important than the total wattage is how much power the PSU can provide on the +12V rail. Even if you had a high quality 750W PSU, if it could only provide 30A on the +12V rail (for whatever reason) it would not be suitable for a high end PC. Of course that's not an issue for the most part and high quality PSUs can usually provide all their power on the +12V rail, but I think it is a good idea to tell people that they need to look this up.

The myth of single rail PSUs being better is also something that I have a gripe with, but not that important.

 

For the actual power consumption of only the GPU (most sites give you the total system power consumption, which is misleading for some people) I really like guru3d.com. Every GPU review usually comes with an estimate of the GPU power consumption, which is really handy.

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I still sense noobs asking how much power they need, sadly you can't fix newbiness but you can put it through a wall.


 

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Posted · Original PosterOP

A few things: with an intel CPU and no (or just modest) overclocking you can get away with a really low wattage PSU (in theory). I measured my system with an overclocked i5 4670k and a GTX 770, both under 100% load. The highest spike was at 350W if I remember correctly. I'm not saying you should power that kind of rig with a 400W PSU, I'm just saying that many people vastly overestimate, especially when they want to power 2 GPUs (my 680W PSU could handle a second 770 and I know that people went as low as 600-650W for a 770 sli setup)

Something more important than the total wattage is how much power the PSU can provide on the +12V rail. Even if you had a high quality 750W PSU, if it could only provide 30A on the +12V rail (for whatever reason) it would not be suitable for a high end PC. Of course that's not an issue for the most part and high quality PSUs can usually provide all their power on the +12V rail, but I think it is a good idea to tell people that they need to look this up.

The myth of single rail PSUs being better is also something that I have a gripe with, but not that important.

 

For the actual power consumption of only the GPU (most sites give you the total system power consumption, which is misleading for some people) I really like guru3d.com. Every GPU review usually comes with an estimate of the GPU power consumption, which is really handy.

 

Yeah you got a good point, it is based on the power on the 12V rail and not 100% on the watts. Most decent power supplies these days that are generally enthusiast/gamer oriented deliver most of the power through the 12V rail where it's most important, especially with higher wattage, decent OEM power supplies. I do remember the days when PSU's were advertised as extremely high wattage because they delivered half of it through the 5V rail. lol

 

That being said though I will definitely add that. Thank you :)


"Rawr XD"

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Yeah you got a good point, it is based on the power on the 12V rail and not 100% on the watts. Most decent power supplies these days that are generally enthusiast/gamer oriented deliver most of the power through the 12V rail where it's most important, especially with higher wattage, decent OEM power supplies. I do remember the days when PSU's were advertised as extremely high wattage because they delivered half of it through the 5V rail. lol

 

That being said though I will definitely add that. Thank you :)

 

Good, I just think it's important to educate people on what matters when they buy a PSU. Cooler master made a pretty stupid decision lately IIRC and released a 650W PSU with only one set of 6+2 pin connectors and an underpowered +12V rail (and it was not a budget PSU either). It still exists and giving people the tools and information to find out for themselves is always the best idea.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Good, I just think it's important to educate people on what matters when they buy a PSU. Cooler master made a pretty stupid decision lately IIRC and released a 650W PSU with only one set of 6+2 pin connectors and an underpowered +12V rail (and it was not a budget PSU either). It still exists and giving people the tools and information to find out for themselves is always the best idea.

Absolutely. 

 

There will always companies that will try to pull fast ones in order to make a buck off people. It's much easier and cheaper to make a PSU that can deliver a lot of power on the 5V side and not enough on the 12V side, and slap a high wattage sticker on it. Times may have changed but the marketing business isn't going anywhere sadly


"Rawr XD"

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A few things.

 

Associating CWT and FSP with "low-end" PSUs can be rather misleading towards your readers. CWT and FSP can release both entry level power supplies to high-end power supplies. I mean the HX series are manufacturer by CWT, when you had recommended for the higher-end range. I would asked that you don't associated specific OEMs / Brands with tiers, and tell people to considered what is good or not based on that specific unit in question. RealhardtechX is a good websites for a compilation of PSU reviews.

 

While the RM series isn't the best quality PSU, you seem like you don't want to recommend it because you didn't give it a thumbs up. If you didn't do so because it isn't a high-end PSU like the Antec HCP Platinum, EVGA Supernova G2, etc. then I would agree; however, it is certainly a better PSU than the CX series that you had deemed acceptable in the lower-end segment. If you didn't give it a thumbs up due to it's price...well, price may differ overtime (due to sales or price drops) and regions, in which it being poorly priced in comparison to units like the EVGA Supernova G2 may not always be true. It seem to me you being a little biased even though you said you wouldn't.

 

The minimum can be actually be lower than what you had recommended. A quality power supplies like the Seasonic G, Rosewill Capstone (SF Golden Green), etc. can power a titan with an i7 on a 450w PSU. Northwest Falcon did it on their Tiki lineup with a Silverstone ST45SF-G. Of course, there are a few factors such as overclocking that can greatly affect this, but we are talking about minimum recommendation here.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Associating CWT and FSP with "low-end" PSUs can be rather misleading towards your readers. CWT and FSP can release both entry level power supplies to high-end power supplies. I mean the HX series are manufacturer by CWT, when you had recommended for the higher-end range. I would asked that you don't associated specific OEMs / Brands with tiers, and tell people to considered what is good or not based on that specific unit in question. RealhardtechX is a good websites for a compilation of PSU reviews.

 

Generally those are what you will find in the PSUs that people will commonly look at when it comes to the entry level power supples. If you take a look at the build advice section, below 600W, the CWT-based Corsair CX is what the majority go for, and as for the price it's a decent PSU, along with others like the EVGA 430/500/500B/600B

 

The Corsair HX will depend which HX you're talking about. Half of them are Seasonic based, while the other half are CWT but based on their DSG platform.

 

While the RM series isn't the best quality PSU, you seem like you don't want to recommend it because you didn't give it a thumbs up. If you didn't do so because it isn't a high-end PSU like the Antec HCP Platinum, EVGA Supernova G2, etc. then I would agree; however, it is certainly a better PSU than the CX series that you had deemed acceptable in the lower-end segment. If you didn't give it a thumbs up due to it's price...well, price may differ overtime (due to sales or price drops) and regions, in which it being poorly priced in comparison to units like the EVGA Supernova G2 may not always be true. It seem to me you being a little biased even though you said you wouldn't.

 

The section that I stated had explicit text at the beginning highlighted in bold that stated that my personal opinion will be stated in that paragraph and only that paragraph. It's pure opinion in that frame.

 

 

The minimum can be actually be lower than what you had recommended. A quality power supplies like the Seasonic G, Rosewill Capstone (SF Golden Green), etc. can power a titan with an i7 on a 450w PSU. Northwest Falcon did it on their Tiki lineup with a Silverstone ST45SF-G. Of course, there are a few factors such as overclocking that can greatly affect this, but we are talking about minimum recommendation here.

 

Generally what I'm trying to put out is an acceptable minimum and not a bare minimum. Yes an i7 and a Titan can run on a 450W, it's an 84W CPU and a 260W GPU, well below the 450W limit. However add in other components and you're edging on the high end of the PSU, which I wouldn't want to pull from it for too long, for the sake of heat, efficiency, and lifespan. The Toyota Tundra can tow a spaceship, but not all day. 


"Rawr XD"

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If you want people to read it, you need to make it shorter. Especially for the people who don't know much about power supplies and don't care very much. They simply want an answer.

 

e.g. There is more to a power supply than the brand on the box. Don't simply trust the brand (Corsair, EVGA) or the manufacturer (Seasonic, Superflower), or some specifications like the 80Plus Rating or semi- or full-modularity. The electrical performance is more important.

 

Look for common themes in threads and respond to them in as few words as possible.

 

You should mention that when asking for power supply recommendations, giving your location/preferred store, budget and any other preferences are helpful. If they don't, we simply ask for them immediately anyway.

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Generally those are what you will find in the PSUs that people will commonly look at when it comes to the entry level power supples. If you take a look at the build advice section, below 600W, the CWT-based Corsair CX is what the majority go for, and as for the price it's a decent PSU, along with others like the EVGA 430/500/500B/600B

 

You are providing a reference regarding PSUs and wattage recommendation. This type of reference doesn't need to be continuously updated, as if done correctly, what you say now will still imply months or years later to some extent (the only thing you may need to update may be just the components within each tiers). At one point in time, the ATNG-build Rosewill Green was actually a better value than the CWT DSA-II base CX. While it isn't exactly aesthetically pleasing and quiet, you can say that the Delta-build Antec VP-550P is a better unit than the CX series being an independent regulated PSU as opposed to the group-regulated design of the CX.  It's also cheaper than both the 500w and 600w variant of the CXv3 at PCCG (Corsair product in the AU are usually a bit more inflated than the US).  The Cooler Master GM series is also in the same price range as the CX series, and it will offer better voltage stability due to it being a DC-DC regulated PSU. And don't forget about the S12II Bronze based units from Seasonic.

 

Which bring back to what I had said, your suggestions is not always accurate, as the availability and pricing of different region at the time of purchase may be different from what you normally see. Because of this, it is much rather to educate people that there are more options than just what the "majority goes for" which you stated that the majority would go with the CX and the HEC-build EVGAs. You had a problem with people recommending the RM series, because you often see people recommend it while disregarding other options. The way I see it is that you are doing the same thing. You are making a statement that in the lower-end, look for CWT and FSP, while high-end look for Seasonic and Super Flower. What about Delta Electronics? What about the Enhance Electronics that manufacturer the Cooler Master VSM series and various of Silverstone PSUs? What about some solid ATNG units like the Rosewill Fortress? What about Enermax, Highpower, Flextronics, or various other OEMs that you didn't mentioned? The definition of "broad" is "covering a large number and wide scope of subjects or areas". Why are you making such statement through such a narrow scope?

 

Again, drop the statement "go for this or that", because it isn't always true. If it was, the Etasis build EVGA NEX1500 wouldn't have been such a disappointment (I generally class Etasis above Seasonic, btw). Make a more general statement stating to do some proper research on the unit they are looking at. There are various of good PSU reviewers for this such as Jonnyguru, HardOCP, TPU, Hardware Secrets (although Gabe had moved back to Brazil and no longer is doing PSU reviews...Not sure if they have a new guy or not), etc.

 

The Corsair HX will depend which HX you're talking about. Half of them are Seasonic based, while the other half are CWT but based on their DSG platform.

 

HX450 - Seasonic S12II (SS-***ES)

HX520/620 - Seasonic S12.

HX650v1 - Seasonic S12E

HX650v2 - Seasonic G (SSP-***RT).

HX750v1 - 850v1 - CWT DSG

HX1000 - CWT PUC.

HX750v2 - 850v3 - CWT PUQ-G

HX1050- CWT DSG

 

Five Seasonic units. Six CWT units. All of them are discontinued except for the Seasonic HX650v2 and the CWT HX750v2/850v2/1050w. The HXi is also CWT base. The available models belong in the high-end segment below the AX series. So you are saying that you only "thumbs up" the HX650v2 in the high-end segment for the current available unit? Personally, I won't, as while it is based on the Seasonic G series it lack the native connectivity for the option to SLI/CFX, when the original has it.

 

The section that I stated had explicit text at the beginning highlighted in bold that stated that my personal opinion will be stated in that paragraph and only that paragraph. It's pure opinion in that frame.

 

Please rephrased that. You written it as though that bolded "as for my opinion" has always been there, and I'm pretty sure you had edited it in when I made my post...

 

Regardless, you asked for suggestions or possible corrections. You stated that this thread would be a broad reference for wattage recommendation, and as well as you had stated "These numbers are established assuming you are using a quality power supply. Now I will not be biased on what these are". By stating your opinion right before saying "not RM" later on in that paragraph and then looking at your signature, it shows you are being rather biased. If you are not going to recommend it, then don't mentioned it. There is not need to dismissed a viable option, that can potentially be priced properly in a region that you aren't familiar with.

 

Generally what I'm trying to put out is an acceptable minimum and not a bare minimum. Yes an i7 and a Titan can run on a 450W, it's an 84W CPU and a 260W GPU, well below the 450W limit. However add in other components and you're edging on the high end of the PSU, which I wouldn't want to pull from it for too long, for the sake of heat, efficiency, and lifespan. The Toyota Tundra can tow a spaceship, but not all day.

 

The power draw won't increase drastically to the point of making it run on the edge. Not to mentioned, unless you intentionally test it under synthetic loading, the components inside of your computer would rarely run at 100% simultaneously. Anandtech tested their system with an overclocked i7 and had it peaking at 325w AC. DC power draw will be lower. As long as it is a quality PSU like I had stated, a 450w PSU can indeed power that system without any problems. If you want other opinions, this is the type of recommendation you would also see at Jonnyguru.com.

 

Recommend whatever you are comfortable with. In most cases I would recommend a 550w for such a setup, but I'm merely making the point that your "acceptable minimum" can be lowered.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

You are providing a reference regarding PSUs and wattage recommendation. This type of reference doesn't need to be continuously updated, as if done correctly, what you say now will still imply months or years later to some extent (the only thing you may need to update may be just the components within each tiers). At one point in time, the ATNG-build Rosewill Green was actually a better value than the CWT DSA-II base CX. While it isn't exactly aesthetically pleasing and quiet, you can say that the Delta-build Antec VP-550P is a better unit than the CX series being an independent regulated PSU as opposed to the group-regulated design of the CX.  It's also cheaper than both the 500w and 600w variant of the CXv3 at PCCG (Corsair product in the AU are usually a bit more inflated than the US).  The Cooler Master GM series is also in the same price range as the CX series, and it will offer better voltage stability due to it being a DC-DC regulated PSU. And don't forget about the S12II Bronze based units from Seasonic.

 

I much rather educate people that there are more options than just what the "majority goes for" which you stated that the majority would go with the CX and the HEC-build EVGAs. You had a problem with people recommending the RM series, because you often see people recommend it while disregarding other options. The way I see it is that you are doing the same thing. You are making a statement that in the lower-end, look for CWT and FSP, while high-end look for Seasonic and Super Flower. What about Delta Electronics? What about the Enhance Electronics that manufacturer the Cooler Master VSM series and various of Silverstone PSUs? What about some solid ATNG units like the Rosewill Fortress? What about Enermax, Highpower, Flextronics, or various other OEMs that you didn't mentioned? The definition of "broad" is "covering a large number and wide scope of subjects or areas". Why are you making such statement through such a narrow scope?

 

Again, drop the statement "go for this or that", because it isn't always true. If it was, the Etasis build EVGA NEX1500 wouldn't have been such a disappointment (I generally class Etasis above Seasonic, btw). Make a more general statement stating to do some proper research on the unit they are looking at. There are various of good PSU reviewers for this such as Jonnyguru, HardOCP, TPU, Hardware Secrets (although Gabe had moved back to Brazil and no longer is doing PSU reviews...Not sure if they have a new guy or not), etc..

 

The "constantly updated" part takes into consideration things like this. The statistics might stay true for years, but it would be pretty horrible if it was just written and left like that. That is why I ask for suggestions so I can improve on the post.

 

As for the whole "majority" thing there's some looking around that needs to be done. When people are on the forum they're going to ask for common power supplies like the Corsair CX, and that is what the community also recommends and that's what people go for. There's other forums that do otherwise but adapting to LTT this is pretty much what goes on a lot. 

 

Again, this thread isn't perfect. Just because I started it doesn't mean that advice from other people isn't implemented. So I do thank you for your informative post, and I will do my best to adjust accordingly. 

 

 

So you are saying that you only "thumbs up" the HX650v2 in the high-end segment for the current available unit? Personally, I won't, as while it is based on the Seasonic G series it lack the native connectivity for the option to SLI/CFX, when the original has it.

 

Regardless, you asked for suggestions or possible corrections. You stated that this thread would be a broad reference for wattage recommendation, and as well as you had stated "These numbers are established assuming you are using a quality power supply. Now I will not be biased on what these are". By stating your opinion right before saying "not RM" later on in that paragraph and then looking at your signature, it shows you are being rather biased. If you are not going to recommend it, then don't mentioned it. There is not need to dismissed a viable option, that can potentially be priced properly in a region that you aren't familiar with.

 

Again, it was there since the beginning that the paragraph is only opinion. I thumbs up and thumbs down power supplies that I have personally used and built with, which is why not every single power supply in the world is on the list. What I'm saying is that they should do their research and see what's a good power supply for them. It'll take some text reduction in the OP anyways

 

 

The power draw won't increase drastically to the point of making it run on the edge. Not to mentioned, unless you intentionally test it under synthetic loading, the components inside of your computer would rarely run at 100% simultaneously. Anandtech tested their system with an overclocked i7 and had it peaking at 325w AC. DC power draw will be lower. As long as it is a quality PSU like I had stated, a 450w PSU can indeed power that system without any problems. If you want other opinions, this is the type of recommendation you would also see at Jonnyguru.com.

 

Recommend whatever you are comfortable with. In most cases I would recommend a 550w for such a setup, but I'm merely making the point that your "acceptable minimum" can be lowered.

 

Yeah I get your point and I'll adjust accordingly, I just don't want it to be so low that people think "wow 450W for a titan? The box says 700W these people are crazy" or something like that. lol


"Rawr XD"

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Posted · Original PosterOP

If you want people to read it, you need to make it shorter. Especially for the people who don't know much about power supplies and don't care very much. They simply want an answer.

 

e.g. There is more to a power supply than the brand on the box. Don't simply trust the brand (Corsair, EVGA) or the manufacturer (Seasonic, Superflower), or some specifications like the 80Plus Rating or semi- or full-modularity. The electrical performance is more important.

 

Look for common themes in threads and respond to them in as few words as possible.

 

You should mention that when asking for power supply recommendations, giving your location/preferred store, budget and any other preferences are helpful. If they don't, we simply ask for them immediately anyway.

Good advice, will do :)


"Rawr XD"

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I'll spare any newbie too lazy to read.

 

Generally speaking, a single GPU set up, even on the high end, all you'd need is roughly the 500-650w range of PSU (a solid 550w is plenty for the majority of single gpu high end set ups - 430w is fine for mid range/office PCs). For high end SLI/Crossfire, a well built 850w unit will do. For more than 2 GPUs, you are entering the 1kw+ range with very little returns in power, but hey, if you like wasting cash for no real benefit, be my guest.

 

It bothers me people still believe they need a 1kw PSU for a GTX 780/290X. (or the equivalent high end GPU at the time)


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If I came out to be a bit aggressive, I apologized. It seem like you wasn't taking my suggestions into consideration and just wanted to defend your thread (at least it seems like to me at the time). Now I see that wasn't the case.

 

Anyways, when I say "constantly updated", I'm not saying you should just leave it as how you written it originally. You should make revisions to it if you are capable on improving it. But for the most part, the foundation of what you want to say should be already be set. Skimming over what you have took the time to change, I can say it is much better than what you had. I appreciate that you took my suggestion and incorporated it into your thread.

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My recommendation for a simpler Wattage estimate reference would be:

 

Look up the CPU and GPU/s TDP. It's often stated on their website. Add them together. (Ignore the recommended power supply Wattage. Consider only the GPU and CPU Wattages themselves). And then add 100W or so for HDDs, RAM, fans, and any other little things. These often don't use much. Remember, just because your GTX 780 has a 250W TDP, doesn't mean it will always use 250W. Most of the time your CPU and GPU won't be running at 100% load simultaneously, so the total power draw will be lower.

For example: Intel i7 4770k has an 84W TDP, EVGA GTX 780 has a TDP of 250W. 84 + 250 = 334W. Most systems with a 4770k and GTX 780 can run on 430W or so.

 

And something about overclocking power consumption.

 

This doesn't tell you what power supply to buy. Not all power supplies are equal. There is more to the power supply than the brand or manufacturer. To get an idea of how good a power supply is, you can read reviews or simply make a thread and ask us. If you do make a thread asking for suggestions, remember to include your location (country is fine), preferred store or retailer, budget, and any other preferences. When reading reviews, remember that they often vary depending on the test software they used, the different hardware they used, whether they overclocked both CPU and GPU, and how they measured the power. Reading multiple reviews is a good idea.

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