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Why do SandForce SSD controllers have a bad reputation?

Askew
By Askew
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A MX100 is much cheaper than an evo but if I'm not mistaken somewhat slower?

 

No its not slower, its actually faster.

 

From what I saw of the EVO it is very fast initially but the sustained speeds drop off pretty severely?

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From what I saw of the EVO it is very fast initially but the sustained speeds drop off pretty severely?

Yep, due to turbowrite (nasty trick that samsung uses to fool people). 256GB EVO only has around 250MB/s sustained write, while mx100 has over 330MB/s

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Yep, due to trubowrite. 256GB version only has around 250MB/s sustained write, while mx100 has over 330MB/s

ah well that makes sense. I'm only looking at strait specs, peak speeds.

And mx100 is 112 USD, evo is slightly smaller and 169 USD

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148820

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA24G15X2750

muh specs 

Gaming and HTPC (reparations)- ASUS 1080, MSI X99A SLI Plus, 5820k- 4.5GHz @ 1.25v, asetek based 360mm AIO, RM 1000x, 16GB memory, 750D with front USB 2.0 replaced with 3.0  ports, 2 250GB 850 EVOs in Raid 0 (why not, only has games on it), some hard drives

Screens- Acer preditor XB241H (1080p, 144Hz Gsync), LG 1080p ultrawide, (all mounted) directly wired to TV in other room

Stuff- k70 with reds, steel series rival, g13, full desk covering mouse mat

All parts black

Workstation(desk)- 3770k, 970 reference, 16GB of some crucial memory, a motherboard of some kind I don't remember, Micomsoft SC-512N1-L/DVI, CM Storm Trooper (It's got a handle, can you handle that?), 240mm Asetek based AIO, Crucial M550 256GB (upgrade soon), some hard drives, disc drives, and hot swap bays

Screens- 3  ASUS VN248H-P IPS 1080p screens mounted on a stand, some old tv on the wall above it. 

Stuff- Epicgear defiant (solderless swappable switches), g600, moutned mic and other stuff. 

Laptop docking area- 2 1440p korean monitors mounted, one AHVA matte, one samsung PLS gloss (very annoying, yes). Trashy Razer blackwidow chroma...I mean like the J key doesn't click anymore. I got a model M i use on it to, but its time for a new keyboard. Some edgy Utechsmart mouse similar to g600. Hooked to laptop dock for both of my dell precision laptops. (not only docking area)

Shelf- i7-2600 non-k (has vt-d), 380t, some ASUS sandy itx board, intel quad nic. Currently hosts shared files, setting up as pfsense box in VM. Also acts as spare gaming PC with a 580 or whatever someone brings. Hooked into laptop dock area via usb switch

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ah well that makes sense. I'm only looking at strait specs, peak speeds.

And mx100 is 112 USD, evo is slightly smaller and 169 USD

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148820

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA24G15X2750

With those prices, you would have to be insane or a diehard samsung fan to buy EVO.

+°´°+,¸¸,+°´°~ Glorious PC master gaming race :wub: ~°´°+,¸¸,+°´°+
BigBox: Asus P8Z77-V, 3570k, 8GB Ram, Intel 180GB & Sammy 750GB, HD4000, W7
PiBox: Rasberry Pi, BCM @ 1225Mhz ^_^ , 256MB Ram, 16GB Storage, pIO, Raspbian

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I've been reading comparisons of the Samsung 840 EVO to the Intel 530 (and several other drives) and I'm seeing quite a lot of flak levied at Intel's use of a SandForce controller in the drives.

 

The people moaning about it don't elaborate very well, does anyone know the reason? What is it that those controllers do wrong as opposed to the controller in the 840 EVO for example?

 

The Intel 530 uses a SandForce SF-2200 controller.

they USED to have a REALLY bad reputation because of the crappy firmware it had

since LSI bought it  they made a deal with intel and worked together on a custom firmware specifically for intel which didnt have the issues found on other drives

 

but this was a LONG time ago

 

now sandforce ssds dont have these issues anymore

If your grave doesn't say "rest in peace" on it You are automatically drafted into the skeleton war.

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Yep, due to turbowrite (nasty trick that samsung uses to fool people). 256GB EVO only has around 250MB/s sustained write, while mx100 has over 330MB/s

 

OK then it is decided, I will wait for stock at my retailer for MX100 256GB and that will be my purchase.

 

It is £77 for the 256GB model and cheaper than both of the others. it seems to be steaming past all other drives in the 256GB category, so I tend to believe the things you have said about it.

 

Again thank you for the responses.

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they USED to have a REALLY bad reputation because of the crappy firmware it had

since LSI bought it  they made a deal with intel and worked together on a custom firmware specifically for intel which didnt have the issues found on other drives

 

but this was a LONG time ago

 

now sandforce ssds dont have these issues anymore

 

Firmware was NOT the issue. It was the design of power logic, that caused random bsods and disconnects (ssds rapidly switch from power saving idle to active and that stresses the logic alot). They kinda fixed this with firmware, but its still there.

 

And no, Sandforce still has those issues. I own 3 sandforce drives (one of them is Intel) and all of them have occasional BSODs, even though they are updated to the latest firmware.

+°´°+,¸¸,+°´°~ Glorious PC master gaming race :wub: ~°´°+,¸¸,+°´°+
BigBox: Asus P8Z77-V, 3570k, 8GB Ram, Intel 180GB & Sammy 750GB, HD4000, W7
PiBox: Rasberry Pi, BCM @ 1225Mhz ^_^ , 256MB Ram, 16GB Storage, pIO, Raspbian

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OK then it is decided, I will wait for stock at my retailer for MX100 256GB and that will be my purchase.

 

It is £77 for the 256GB model and cheaper than both of the others. it seems to be steaming past all other drives in the 256GB category, so I tend to believe the things you have said about it.

 

Again thank you for the responses.

 

No problem mate, hope you enjoy the #ssdmasterrace feeling :)

+°´°+,¸¸,+°´°~ Glorious PC master gaming race :wub: ~°´°+,¸¸,+°´°+
BigBox: Asus P8Z77-V, 3570k, 8GB Ram, Intel 180GB & Sammy 750GB, HD4000, W7
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im gonna hijack this post

 

got a hyperX 3k and i dont regret it ._.

CPU: Amd fx 8120 3.9ghz...Motherboard: Asus m5a97 evo R:2.0...RAM: 8gb 1600 kingston hyperx blu...GPU: XFX R9 280x ...CASE: Nzxt h440...

 

HDD: Kingston adata ssd 500 gigs, wd blue 500gb...PSU: Corsair gs700...Monitors: Asus vk222h Cooler: Noctua nh-d14...Keyboard:coolermaster masterkeys m...Mouse: logitech g300...Headphones: Logitech g430

 

 

 

 

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im gonna hijack this post

 

got a hyperX 3k and i dont regret it ._.

 

 

 

I really hope you didn't buy this garbage recently :)

+°´°+,¸¸,+°´°~ Glorious PC master gaming race :wub: ~°´°+,¸¸,+°´°+
BigBox: Asus P8Z77-V, 3570k, 8GB Ram, Intel 180GB & Sammy 750GB, HD4000, W7
PiBox: Rasberry Pi, BCM @ 1225Mhz ^_^ , 256MB Ram, 16GB Storage, pIO, Raspbian

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I really hope you didn't buy this garbage recently :)

uhh its not really garbage, well at least im not experiencing "garbage" 

CPU: Amd fx 8120 3.9ghz...Motherboard: Asus m5a97 evo R:2.0...RAM: 8gb 1600 kingston hyperx blu...GPU: XFX R9 280x ...CASE: Nzxt h440...

 

HDD: Kingston adata ssd 500 gigs, wd blue 500gb...PSU: Corsair gs700...Monitors: Asus vk222h Cooler: Noctua nh-d14...Keyboard:coolermaster masterkeys m...Mouse: logitech g300...Headphones: Logitech g430

 

 

 

 

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uhh its not really garbage, well at least im not experiencing "garbage"

because it works at the moment.

muh specs 

Gaming and HTPC (reparations)- ASUS 1080, MSI X99A SLI Plus, 5820k- 4.5GHz @ 1.25v, asetek based 360mm AIO, RM 1000x, 16GB memory, 750D with front USB 2.0 replaced with 3.0  ports, 2 250GB 850 EVOs in Raid 0 (why not, only has games on it), some hard drives

Screens- Acer preditor XB241H (1080p, 144Hz Gsync), LG 1080p ultrawide, (all mounted) directly wired to TV in other room

Stuff- k70 with reds, steel series rival, g13, full desk covering mouse mat

All parts black

Workstation(desk)- 3770k, 970 reference, 16GB of some crucial memory, a motherboard of some kind I don't remember, Micomsoft SC-512N1-L/DVI, CM Storm Trooper (It's got a handle, can you handle that?), 240mm Asetek based AIO, Crucial M550 256GB (upgrade soon), some hard drives, disc drives, and hot swap bays

Screens- 3  ASUS VN248H-P IPS 1080p screens mounted on a stand, some old tv on the wall above it. 

Stuff- Epicgear defiant (solderless swappable switches), g600, moutned mic and other stuff. 

Laptop docking area- 2 1440p korean monitors mounted, one AHVA matte, one samsung PLS gloss (very annoying, yes). Trashy Razer blackwidow chroma...I mean like the J key doesn't click anymore. I got a model M i use on it to, but its time for a new keyboard. Some edgy Utechsmart mouse similar to g600. Hooked to laptop dock for both of my dell precision laptops. (not only docking area)

Shelf- i7-2600 non-k (has vt-d), 380t, some ASUS sandy itx board, intel quad nic. Currently hosts shared files, setting up as pfsense box in VM. Also acts as spare gaming PC with a 580 or whatever someone brings. Hooked into laptop dock area via usb switch

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uhh its not really garbage, well at least im not experiencing "garbage" 

Well i hope you didn't pay a lot for it (if it was more than mx100 or 840EVO then my friend, you were scammed).

 

Also, run as ssd to see the real speed of this "magnificent"  ssd :)

 

 

 

Its all fun and games, untill you get your first BSOD :)

+°´°+,¸¸,+°´°~ Glorious PC master gaming race :wub: ~°´°+,¸¸,+°´°+
BigBox: Asus P8Z77-V, 3570k, 8GB Ram, Intel 180GB & Sammy 750GB, HD4000, W7
PiBox: Rasberry Pi, BCM @ 1225Mhz ^_^ , 256MB Ram, 16GB Storage, pIO, Raspbian

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Firmware was NOT the issue. It was the design of power logic, that caused random bsods and disconnects (ssds rapidly switch from power saving idle to active and that stresses the logic alot). They kinda fixed this with firmware, but its still there.

 

And no, Sandforce still has those issues. I own 3 sandforce drives (one of them is Intel) and all of them have occasional BSODs, even though they are updated to the latest firmware.

hmm i own two  intel 330 ssds in raid 0

never had a bsod

a quote from anand

 

although it's not clear if Intel ever had access to the firmware's source code or not. The result is a solution that performs a little differently than a standard SandForce drive,but should be less prone to compatibility/stability/reliability issues that have plagued SandForce drives for the past year. The latter is difficult to quantify.

 

always thought it was a firmware issue

 

can you link me  to how you knew about "design of power logic" flaw

If your grave doesn't say "rest in peace" on it You are automatically drafted into the skeleton war.

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hmm i own two  intel 330 ssds in raid 0

never had a bsod

a quote from anand

 

always thought it was a firmware issue

 

can you link me  to how you knew about "design of power logic" flaw

 

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5508/intel-ssd-520-review-cherryville-brings-reliability-to-sandforce

 

The BSOD is caused by a bug in SandForce's power state logic that ultimately results in the drive disconnecting from the system while it's running. It turns out that Windows isn't a fan of you hot un-plugging the drive it's running on, which results in the BSOD. We had two systems that exhibited the BSOD, both of which were fixed by the update last October.

 

 

Its a draw of luck really. I also own intel 330 and i've had several BSODs since i own it, even though i have the latest firmware.

+°´°+,¸¸,+°´°~ Glorious PC master gaming race :wub: ~°´°+,¸¸,+°´°+
BigBox: Asus P8Z77-V, 3570k, 8GB Ram, Intel 180GB & Sammy 750GB, HD4000, W7
PiBox: Rasberry Pi, BCM @ 1225Mhz ^_^ , 256MB Ram, 16GB Storage, pIO, Raspbian

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Well i hope you didn't pay a lot for it (if it was more than mx100 or 840EVO then my friend, you were scammed).

 

Also, run as ssd to see the real speed of this "magnificent"  ssd :)

 

 

 

Its all fun and games, untill you get your first BSOD :)

paid like 60 euros :D

CPU: Amd fx 8120 3.9ghz...Motherboard: Asus m5a97 evo R:2.0...RAM: 8gb 1600 kingston hyperx blu...GPU: XFX R9 280x ...CASE: Nzxt h440...

 

HDD: Kingston adata ssd 500 gigs, wd blue 500gb...PSU: Corsair gs700...Monitors: Asus vk222h Cooler: Noctua nh-d14...Keyboard:coolermaster masterkeys m...Mouse: logitech g300...Headphones: Logitech g430

 

 

 

 

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paid like 60 euros :D

 

Thats pretty decent actually. Although one can get mx100/m500 even cheaper, but since i like your profile pic, im gonna let this one slide :lol:

+°´°+,¸¸,+°´°~ Glorious PC master gaming race :wub: ~°´°+,¸¸,+°´°+
BigBox: Asus P8Z77-V, 3570k, 8GB Ram, Intel 180GB & Sammy 750GB, HD4000, W7
PiBox: Rasberry Pi, BCM @ 1225Mhz ^_^ , 256MB Ram, 16GB Storage, pIO, Raspbian

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Good news I don't have to wait for stock because Crucial sell direct in UK with free shipping, they even take PayPal.

 

me gusta.

 

3ddf4eb37b946039ab5d62f4e0dbc0b2.png

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Crucial, you da real MVP :P :P :P

+°´°+,¸¸,+°´°~ Glorious PC master gaming race :wub: ~°´°+,¸¸,+°´°+
BigBox: Asus P8Z77-V, 3570k, 8GB Ram, Intel 180GB & Sammy 750GB, HD4000, W7
PiBox: Rasberry Pi, BCM @ 1225Mhz ^_^ , 256MB Ram, 16GB Storage, pIO, Raspbian

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http://www.anandtech.com/show/5508/intel-ssd-520-review-cherryville-brings-reliability-to-sandforce

 

 

Its a draw of luck really. I also own intel 330 and i've had several BSODs since i own it, even though i have the latest firmware.

very interesting

good read

thanks

If your grave doesn't say "rest in peace" on it You are automatically drafted into the skeleton war.

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And then you wake up with samsungs willy up your a** :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

MX100 is faster (in almost every corner), has better flash (quality MLC instead of TLC garbage), powerloss protection...

i have a laptop, so I dont care about that powerloss thing
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i have a laptop, so I dont care about that powerloss thing

 

Laptops can have dead or empty batteries just aswell :)

 

 

 

Samsung fanboys are really funny sometimes :)

+°´°+,¸¸,+°´°~ Glorious PC master gaming race :wub: ~°´°+,¸¸,+°´°+
BigBox: Asus P8Z77-V, 3570k, 8GB Ram, Intel 180GB & Sammy 750GB, HD4000, W7
PiBox: Rasberry Pi, BCM @ 1225Mhz ^_^ , 256MB Ram, 16GB Storage, pIO, Raspbian

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Laptops can have dead or empty batteries just aswell :)

 

 

 

Samsung fanboys are really funny sometimes :)

lol, but the pc turns to standby if your battery is low and if your battery is dead you will buy a new one anyway.......
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lol, but the pc turns to standby if your battery is low and if your battery is dead you will buy a new one anyway.......

Really, this is your argument against a feature, that you get practily for free ?

And not everyone uses ssds in laptops either.

 

 

 

Face it fellas, crucial is treating its budget line of ssds better :)

It has features, that some other brands offer only on their enterprise drives.

 

 

tl:dr

840evo is out, Crucial is in :)

+°´°+,¸¸,+°´°~ Glorious PC master gaming race :wub: ~°´°+,¸¸,+°´°+
BigBox: Asus P8Z77-V, 3570k, 8GB Ram, Intel 180GB & Sammy 750GB, HD4000, W7
PiBox: Rasberry Pi, BCM @ 1225Mhz ^_^ , 256MB Ram, 16GB Storage, pIO, Raspbian

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@hojnikb you seem to hate anything that might use atrick or two. I personally dont like it for my uses but the average consumer buying a entry level SSD actually benefits.

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