Why do SandForce SSD controllers have a bad reputation?

[hojnikb]

We will see how long I can run my MX100 then, it arrives on Wednesday and from then the clock begins ticking, I'm using it as an OS drive plus a few apps I'd like more responsiveness on so it will probably outlive this PC.

 

The drive will probably never be over 200GB data.

 

Its not just gonna outlive your current PC, its gonna outlive you

 

So no need to worry about endurance.

[Askew]

Its not just gonna outlive your current PC, its gonna outlive you

 

So no need to worry about endurance.

 

Question, does reading from the drive affect its life or is it only writes that degrade the memory?

[hojnikb]

Question, does reading from the drive affect its life or is it only writes that degrade the memory?

Nope reading does not effect the life at all (a little read on floating gate transistors would explain why is it so) just the writes.

 

Not that you need to worry about that.

[Askew]

Nope reading does not effect the life at all (a little read on floating gate transistors would explain why is it so) just the writes.

 

Not that you need to worry about that.

 

I have planned more reading on flash technology tomorrow, whenever I buy something I don't know much about I like to learn.

 

The only thing I remember about the term 'floating gate transistor' is that it maybe means the flash does not lose its memory when you take the power away, where as in RAM it fades away a few seconds after you turn off the power, I know that it is possible to take RAM that has just been powered down and quickly freeze it with nitrogen before the data fades away so that recovery of data can be performed, that fascinates me.

[TheProfosist]

Same could be said for the EVO, since its not _that_ faster than MX100 (in lots of corners its actually slower).

All SSDs are kinda like that I mean the 840 EVO has 90% of the speed the new 850 Pro which is the new top dog. It is hands down the fastest SATA III SSD. The only drive that really beats it is the Intel 730 and thats only when it comes to the consistency of the performance. The 850 Pro isnt too shabby with that either though. I would have gotten the Intel 730 a while ago but you need to get the 480Gb to get max performance. I run RAID0 for my OS drive and I dont need a terrabyte and nor do I want to pay for storage I dont need and wouldnt really utilize.

[TheProfosist]

Question, does reading from the drive affect its life or is it only writes that degrade the memory?

only writes degrade the flash.

[Ant-Man]

The way in which the sandforce controllers are implemented is totally up to the manufacturer. The controllers have worked great for the INtel over the years now. Proof is that it has worked great for me. And to people claming that TRIM does not work properly you should please read this http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5513/sandisk-extreme-ii-240gb-ssd-review/index10.html

And to people who have not had first hand experience using the sandforce ssds or are basing what they say on what they've read does not make sense.

There was a reddit session held recently that answers most of the questions that users have had. heres a link to that
http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/27yvkm/rbuildapc_i_recently_wrote_an_extensive_article/

[TymmVonD]

I feel like a straight up noob for my SSD choices now...

[Askew]

The way in which the sandforce controllers are implemented is totally up to the manufacturer. The controllers have worked great for the INtel over the years now. Proof is that it has worked great for me. And to people claming that TRIM does not work properly you should please read this http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5513/sandisk-extreme-ii-240gb-ssd-review/index10.html

And to people who have not had first hand experience using the sandforce ssds or are basing what they say on what they've read does not make sense.

There was a reddit session held recently that answers most of the questions that users have had. heres a link to that

http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/27yvkm/rbuildapc_i_recently_wrote_an_extensive_article/

 

 

@hojnikb

 

Will you respond to this?

 

The post looks like a copypasta to me due to the font/text format, I'd say it has been posted in a number of places or perphaps prepared to be posted here after this thread was seen on Google. (I will show why this is likely in the spoiler)

 

[Rekx]

Because Samsung/Intel SSD

[hojnikb]

 

The way in which the sandforce controllers are implemented is totally up to the manufacturer. The controllers have worked great for the INtel over the years now. Proof is that it has worked great for me. And to people claming that TRIM does not work properly you should please read this http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5513/sandisk-extreme-ii-240gb-ssd-review/index10.html

And to people who have not had first hand experience using the sandforce ssds or are basing what they say on what they've read does not make sense.

There was a reddit session held recently that answers most of the questions that users have had. heres a link to that

http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/27yvkm/rbuildapc_i_recently_wrote_an_extensive_article/

 

 

Actually, pretty much every sandforce manufacturer sticks with the reference design; only variation between different manufactures are usually only with nand.

 

As far as trim is concerned http://www.anandtech.com/show/6107/corsair-force-series-gs-240gb-review

It STILL doesnt work properly. Write speeds drop, once drive is filled with data and numerous people can confirm this (i experience that behaviour on all of my sandforce drives.

 

And you really can't believe everything their PR department is saying

[hojnikb]

@hojnikb

 

Will you respond to this?

 

The post looks like a copypasta to me due to the font/text format, I'd say it has been posted in a number of places or perphaps prepared to be posted here after this thread was seen on Google. (I will show why this is likely in the spoiler)

 

 

Yeah, don't believe everything their PR department says

[Askew]

Yeah, don't believe everything their PR department says

 

I don't think they like that Google ranking of this thread, all top 3 placements for those keywords that is an issue indeed. <_<

[hojnikb]

And here is an example, how badly trim is broken in sandforce.

Drive is Adata s510 (async flash, rated for 200MB/s read and 140MB/s write)

 

 

As you can see, its quite a significant decrease in write speeds (almost 50MB/s).

And people say, trim works properly in sandforce :P :P :P

[Askew]

@hojnikb time for installing oh yes

 

[RatedBlam]

I was gonna buy that same ssd, but I bought something else. Informative isn't it.

But I will post my purchase arrives, but it probably only interests a few.

[hojnikb]

@hojnikb time for installing oh yes

 

 

Enjoy the #ssdmasterrace feel :wub:

[patrickjp93]

With those prices, you would have to be insane or a diehard samsung fan to buy EVO.

Or we'd prefer having a drive which supports full disk encryption at the hardware level. Screw Marvell and Sandforce controllers both. At least with the 850 Pro series you get RAID support finally in addition to full disk encryption.

[hojnikb]

Or we'd prefer having a drive which supports full disk encryption at the hardware level. Screw Marvell and Sandforce controllers both. At least with the 850 Pro series you get RAID support finally in addition to full disk encryption.

Crucial support full disk encryption since m500 and supports Microsofts eDrive aswell. So don't know what are u talking about.

 

And RAID is supported on EVERY SINGLE storage device, regardless of tehnology or maker.

[patrickjp93]

Crucial support full disk encryption since m500 and supports Microsofts eDrive aswell. So don't know what are u talking about.

 

And RAID is supported on EVERY SINGLE storage device, regardless of tehnology or maker.

Just because you can RAID 2 SSDs doesn't mean they can actually support TRIM while doing so, or full disk encryption while doing so. Please do some more thorough research. Every SSD maker is either missing full-disk encryption OR is missing PROPER RAID support. OCZ is the only one known to support both but who the Hell would risk OCZ at this point?

[hojnikb]

Just because you can RAID 2 SSDs doesn't mean they can actually support TRIM while doing so, or full disk encryption while doing so. Please do some more thorough research. Every SSD maker is either missing full-disk encryption OR is missing PROPER RAID support. OCZ is the only one known to support both but who the Hell would risk OCZ at this point?

Crucial supports both RAID and TRIM in this configurations (trim support in raid is really a thing of your chipset not the drive itself) so i really don't know what you're talking about..

[hojnikb]

I think you're the one, that needs a bit of a thorough research

[patrickjp93]

Crucial supports both RAID and TRIM in this configurations (trim support in raid is really a thing of your chipset not the drive itself) so i really don't what you're talking about..

http://ssds.findthebest.com/compare/216-397/ADATA-Premier-Pro-SP900-128GB-ASP900S3-128GM-C-vs-Samsung-840-EVO-120GB-MZ-7TE120BW

 

Please do your damn research. TRIM in RAID is not supported by most SSDs and it's the only reason Samsung 840 Pro isn't a perfect buy. And no Crucial MX 100 doesn't support it either according to this website and anandtech.

[hojnikb]

http://ssds.findthebest.com/compare/216-397/ADATA-Premier-Pro-SP900-128GB-ASP900S3-128GM-C-vs-Samsung-840-EVO-120GB-MZ-7TE120BW

 

Please do your damn research. TRIM in RAID is not supported by most SSDs and it's the only reason Samsung 840 Pro isn't a perfect buy. And no Crucial MX 100 doesn't support it either according to this website and anandtech.

 

Its supported, but you need a compatabile chipset and latest storage drivers.

I believe Z/H7x series chipsets support it.

[hojnikb]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6161/intel-brings-trim-to-raid0-ssd-arrays-on-7series-motherboards-we-test-it