792p - "Next-gen" Consoles Vs PC - WTF?

[ManWithBeard1990]

So much stuff, 2 new vids and the livestream. Today is awesome. 

Edit: If Linus' new baby is a girl he needs to call her Vidia.

Edit: Liked vid for boobies, Linus, you must return your end of the bargain. 

Invidia is Latin for envy, you know that right?

[lufihengr]

As I've said before, mass production is a whole other animal. I believe that the Xbox and PS4 both have an SoC, which greatly reduces complexity and power consumption. The complexity of an actual graphics card would raise the price by a lot, you'd need separate power delivery and separate cooling. That's what a lot of comparisons to PCs don't take into account. They need to be able to reliably produce several million of these, so the simpler the parts the better.

 

Low end and high end consoles is a terrible idea. You fragment the market and force people to decide how they want their games to look. The whole point of a console is that you don't have to decide what parts you want, you just buy it and play your games.

 

They basically have an AMD APU in them, not because it reduces complexity or power consumption as such, it's just because that is what they got for the least amount of money.

[Builder]

They basically have an AMD APU in them, not because it reduces complexity or power consumption as such, it's just because that is what they got for the least amount of money.

Well yes, but my overall point is that economies of scale have huge implications and they are wholesale ignored by most people doing comparisons.

It's not an APU, it's an SoC, there's a pretty large difference. It does reduce the complexity of the system by a lot and it does reduce power consumption.

[Mindtrickz]

I like to preface this by saying that I don't own a next-gen console, and I am a PC gamer. But all this #‎PCMasterRace hurr durr nonsense  is getting out of hand. This test is extremely disingenuous and paints a false picture.

 

A GTX 480 is a high-end card that cost $580 dollars at launch. Today it costs about $150. That is ~ 1/3 of PS4's price. What people and Slick are not taking into consideration is the $150 is for the GPU ALONE. You still need to buy a CPU, ram, motherboard, case, power supply, OS etc which would at the end exceed the price of the PS4.

 

A GPU on it's own is useless. A console is not. You can not compare a costly single component that that requires others components to function to a all-in-one system.

 

 

PC gaming is better than console. We all know this, but let's stop using false equivalence.

[Nick Paviour]

Dear LTT

Please stop referring to the Xbox One and Playstation 4 as 'next-gen.'

As we can only experience what is actually happening here, right now, it would be more suitable to calling it 'Current-Gen.'

I might remind you that 'Next-Gen' was a catch phrase used to promote the release of the Xbox One and Playstation 4, but (as with everything) since it's release it has since transitioned to the simple and modest 'Current-Gen' status.

 

Sincerely

LTT fan.

Completely agree.

[Victorious Secret]

iirc, Halo 3 was locked to 30fps and ran at something like 640p

 

Well there you go, I didn't even know the "numbers" of the game, I was a little too busy being entertained by it. Isn't that what ultimately matters? You can have as many Crysis 1s as you want, what point is it if they play like crap? They sure as hell won't get touched again by me, thats for sure. 

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

I like the PC, and I like what they are good at.

With that said, I found the video to be outright disturbing.

 

I can make a 5-page rant about this, but I will sum it up:

 

What do you care more, the fact that the game is fun, or the fact that the games have higher arbitrary numbers?

 

If high-resolution and high-FPS gaming is really important, then why are almost none of the classic games, for both consoles and PC, remastered?

 

Why is no attention paid to the actual infrastructure of these consoles? If you think that the X86 platform makes the games "easier to develop", or  the consoles "equivalent to PCs", then you could not be any more wrong!

[pk-man]

FFS, Linus pls mark this video NSFW!!!!

[Haroids]

In my opinion, using Watch Dogs to compare a PC to consoles is a bit inconclusive. The Last of Us remastered for example is already running at 60 FPS and Naughty Dog is targeting 1080p with it. Even the PS3 version of Last of Us blows away Watch Dogs in many ways.

 

I realize it's not meant to be a conclusive video, but even taking a look at the beginning of last gen when the PS3 had only a few games, most of which looked awful, it's pretty safe to say that even despite the PC-like architecture of the PS4/Xbone, it'll take a while for the console devs to fully utilize the systems to their fullest. 

 

And yes, this video needs to be tagged as NSFW, Linus.

[BrockWalls]

This video actually made me think a little bit less of them. It's like /r/pcmasterrace in real life, except they're serious. "Next gen" consoles (News Flash: They're the current generation now)? Really guys? Sure it's not as good as a PC in terms of quality, but what can you expect from a $500 system? They definitely couldn't pull the same thing off with something like FM5 (which is capped at 60fps/1080p vs. Assetto Corsa with a 480 (Spoiler: it wouldn't look as good). It's cherry picked, but it's one of the few games that's on both systems so I see why they did it.

It's a video that has left a bad taste in my mouth (even though it's probably gonna be their most popular video because it keeps the master race circlejerk strong) and videos like this actually turn me off from wanting to build a PC eventually. All in all, it's disappointing to see and pretty much Hom's Tardware level "benchmarking" from these guys.

[DIV1D3]

Invidia is Latin for envy, you know that right?

Never knew that. 

[samcool55]

I think this was quite intresting, if you want have the "next-gen console" experience on your pc, you don't need much graphics power at all, i'm quite suprised how far you can get with such a small amount. But if you want the pc experience (60fps 1080p) you need a lot of power, and it's clear now the console won't reach that, it would need to be 4 times more powerful than it is now, and there is no way you will reach that with optimization.

And the pc does have 4 times more power than the console (high-end new gpu's of today have that) and they have the possibility to give you the pc experience. And most pc gamers are prepared to invest in that. But it's useless if the developers keep everything at the "next-gen console" level. they are killing the pc experience because they keep their games at console level and don't develop it properly for pc. 

 

Screw ubisoft and EA

[applebook]

It's a console peasant revolt in the Youtubez comments!

 

I agree that the methodology used in the video is flawed and not to be taken very seriously, but it's still nowhere near as absurd as your typical console peasant's irrational rant:

 

"Yeah, well, your PC graphics don't look as good as real life anyway, so just go outside if you want to see real graphics! I'm gonna tell my mommy!" :lol:  :lol:

[rentaspoon]

Sitting at a desk sucks.... 720p consoles look crap

#COUCHPCMASTERRACE

[infigo]

Ohh. 720p to 792p and 30fps. SEVEN YEARS OF DEVOLEPMENT (or more) and still not even 1080p and 60 fps. Ps2 to ps3 was crazy how big the difference was and now...consoles may die as soon as possible if no revolution comes.

[SkilledRebuilds]

I heard 1440x900 > 1920x1080 is 44% increase!

Which is why I put my Core2Quad 3.0 + 4890 to a 900p 19" Widescreen. Does so well but yeah... hitting 1080p and it crumbles.

[Victorious Secret]

Ohh. 720p to 792p and 30fps. SEVEN YEARS OF DEVOLEPMENT (or more) and still not even 1080p and 60 fps. Ps2 to ps3 was crazy how big the difference was and now...consoles may die as soon as possible if no revolution comes.

 

Except many games are hitting one and some are hitting both, and its only 9 months in. 

 

This is same shit people said the last time around about the consoles and how they sucked and how they looked bad. Exactly the same even. Its like we ignore how shaky the launch windows always are and expect perfection out of the fucking gate. 

[Neodanger777]

Ok I have a suggestion:

 

How about doing this again but using the lowest-as-possible-end components (RAM and CPU) that can match de TDP and heat and see how much it would cost.

 

I've been checking some interesting builds for less than 400 Dollars, but could you really get the same or less heat output or TDP as a PS4?

 

I mean, I don't know what RAM or CPU they used in that test. You could probably use the same GTX 480 with the rest of the components being less powerful, but powerful enough to not produce bottlenecks.

 

Also, you could try with cheaper/older Graphics Cards.

 

That would be an interesting experiment. To see that engineers not only made a low-end PC, but also made it as cost effective, low-energy consuming, and all-time cool as possible.

 

...or you could try with a gaming laptop from 2011/2012

[ComradeHX]

Except many games are hitting one and some are hitting both, and its only 9 months in. 

 

This is same shit people said the last time around about the consoles and how they sucked and how they looked bad. Exactly the same even. Its like we ignore how shaky the launch windows always are and expect perfection out of the fucking gate. 

Last time, potatoes actually were somewhat competitive with mid-end PC of the time.

 

This time, they are literally at the low-end pc level.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

Last time, potatoes actually were somewhat competitive with mid-end PC of the time.

 

This time, they are literally at the low-end pc level.

 

No, It was the exact same thing last time as it is this time. Same level of bickering; same level of PCMR nonsense; same level of elitism. This has been ongoing since the late 80s.

 

All of this complaining boils down to what I call the "New Console Syndrome".

 

And I will provide a formerly top-secret cure: just wait, and let the newer console base mature.

[ComradeHX]

No, It was the exact same thing last time as it is this time. Same level of bickering; same level of PCMR nonsense; same level of elitism. This has been ongoing since the late 80s.

 

All of this complaining boils down to what I call the "New Console Syndrome".

 

And I will provide a formerly top-secret cure: just wait, and let the newer console base mature.

If you think that; you clearly have not paid attention.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

If you think that; you clearly have not paid attention.

 

Yep, I have paid no attention... because I don't care. In fact, none of the actual consolites care about the dilemma. There is a difference between us and them, we take special interest in getting the most out of the gaming experience, and they just want to play a game and be done with it. We care about specifications, they couldn't care less about "fancy numbers" beyond an extent. Do not assume that you are them unless you can actually be in their shoes.

Take a look at the PS3; after it launched, it was hit by massive margin losses. As well, the PC gamers (as well as Xbox/Nintendo fanboys) were having quite a field day with the machine, "predicting" the death of the Playstation brand within a few months at most. Did that deter me from buying the machine when it was at it's supposed worst? No it did not, and look at it now. The PS3 sale rates are very good, even when it is a mere 2 years from official obsolescence. 

 

We do not know what will happen to the eighth generation consoles, and there is the problem right there. The complaints are largely premature attacks. It is like mocking a Honda for not being a Bugatti, right after the showrcase. Be honest here, is that really a logical scenario?

[ComradeHX]

Yep, I have paid no attention... because I don't care. In fact, none of the actual consolites care about the dilemma. There is a difference between us and them, we take special interest in getting the most out of the gaming experience, and they just want to play a game and be done with it. We care about specifications, they couldn't care less about "fancy numbers" beyond an extent. Do not assume that you are them unless you can actually be in their shoes.

Take a look at the PS3; after it launched, it was hit by massive margin losses. As well, the PC gamers (as well as Xbox/Nintendo fanboys) were having quite a field day with the machine, "predicting" the death of the Playstation brand within a few months at most. Did that deter me from buying the machine when it was at it's supposed worst? No it did not, and look at it now. The PS3 sale rates are very good, even when it is a mere 2 years from official obsolescence. 

 

We do not know what will happen to the eighth generation consoles, and there is the problem right there. The complaints are largely premature attacks. It is like mocking a Honda for not being a Bugatti, right after the showrcase. Be honest here, is that really a logical scenario?

If you don't care.

WHY are you whining?

 

If they don't care; why are they boasting about how their xbox has better graphics than $4000 pc which they saw off some retarded alienware catalogue?

PS3 is not current gen.  Sony had significant losses on console due to many reasons("new" hardware back in the day with somewhat competitive performance to midend PC, as I already mentioned, which you failed to read).  They also suffered quite a bit due to pricetag being TOO DAMNED HIGH and xbox360 releasing earlier.

http://www.gamefront.com/sony-probably-loses-money-on-each-ps4/

Now they use modified readily-available AMD pc parts...

 

Terrible analogy; Honda isn't trying to be Bugatti.  PS4/Xboxone are trying(and being marketed as) to compete with PC.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

If you don't care.

WHY are you whining?

 

I am not whining; in fact I would say that you are the one whining, as you called the entirety of the console users "potatoes". I am simply making a constructive objection to the "next gen" slander. There is a level of criticism that is good for the consumers, and eventually, the businesses. The problem here is that it has already escalated to a poo-flinging competition before they were even announced.

 

If they don't care; why are they boasting about how their xbox has better graphics than $4000 pc which they saw off some retarded alienware catalogue?

 

Aside from the internet trolls, nobody does that. Again, you need to see the general demographic of console gamers for what it is, before making bold claims like this.

 

 

PS3 is not current gen.  Sony had significant losses on console due to many reasons("new" hardware back in the day with somewhat competitive performance to midend PC, as I already mentioned, which you failed to read).  They also suffered quite a bit due to pricetag being TOO DAMNED HIGH and xbox360 releasing earlier.

http://www.gamefront.com/sony-probably-loses-money-on-each-ps4/

 

Now you are simply evading my statements. That is a point that I have already made myself. I was speaking in context of the complaining.

 

 

Now they use modified readily-available AMD pc parts...

 

It may look like so, but when you get to the metal of the parts, it is a far cry from "readily-available PC parts".

 

 

Terrible analogy; Honda isn't trying to be Bugatti.  PS4/Xboxone are trying(and being marketed as) to compete with PC.

 

The analogy fits very well, you just missed the point. Honda may not be trying to be Bugatti, but people impose such comparison on the cars. The eighth generations are not competing with the PC's, but rather each other. The supposed competition with PC is a placebo effect that is a side effect of the PCMR group mentality.

 

Did I say that the PCMR was very old? Because I don't think I have.

[ComradeHX]

I am not whining; in fact I would say that you are the one whining, as you called the entirety of the console users "potatoes". I am simply making a constructive objection to the "next gen" slander. There is a level of criticism that is good for the consumers, and eventually, the businesses. The problem here is that it has already escalated to a poo-flinging competition before they were even announced.

 Calling potatoes by their true name is whining?

You are trying hard; but failing anyway.

There was nothing constructive about insults to CURRENT gen potatoes; they have been out for a while.

 

Aside from the internet trolls, nobody does that. Again, you need to see the general demographic of console gamers for what it is, before making bold claims like this.

You have no idea just how many people are uninformed...

Did you not realize console-biased media have been painting PC as outdated?

 

Now you are simply evading my statements. That is a point that I have already made myself. I was speaking in context of the complaining.

 

 I was not evading your statement; I was telling you that your statement is irrelevant.

This is about CURRENT GEN consoles.

I even had PS2 and Xbox back in the day when they were actually somewhat competitive with PC of the time.

 

It may look like so, but when you get to the metal of the parts, it is a far cry from "readily-available PC parts".

  

 It's mostly just parts thrown onto one pcb with shared ram. Everything else is crutch for saving money or attempt to improve performance in very limited ways.

 

The analogy fits very well, you just missed the point. Honda may not be trying to be Bugatti, but people impose such comparison on the cars. The eighth generations are not competing with the PC's, but rather each other. The supposed competition with PC is a placebo effect that is a side effect of the PCMR group mentality.

  

You don't hear media telling the uninformed that Honda is comparable to Bugatti.

http://gamingbolt.com/sony-defends-ps4-against-claims-of-being-outdated-specialist-device-architecturally-involved-with-pc

http://www.develop-online.net/news/ea-xbox-one-and-ps4-a-generation-ahead-of-pc/0114920

But you do see how these exist^...

Internet is full of peasantry; yet, you conveniently ignored all of it.

 

Did I say that the PCMR was very old? Because I don't think I have.

PCMR is very old? I bet you are older.