What do people hate about Apple?

[Tcrumpen]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

So you're a very niche user. Apple is a company that has to produce for the masses; producing for the niche cases just isn't profitable. Apple stopped producing all but the Touch because nothing else was selling well, and then also lengthened the Touch's upgrade cycle significantly because it wasn't selling well either. Also, at this point a 128gb iPod Touch costs $300 and is rated for 40 hours of music playback while a 160gb Classic was $250 when it was discontinued and was rated for 36 hours.

I bought my 160gb iPod classic at £170 9 years ago and it's only just starting to die on me; as much as i do slate apple i won't deny their stuff lasts. I'm not actually as niche as you might think a lot of techies i know follow the same way of thinking

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, Tcrumpen said:

I bought my 160gb iPod classic at £170 9 years ago and it's only just starting to die on me; as much as i do slate apple i won't deny their stuff lasts. I'm not actually as niche as you might think a lot of techies i know follow the same way of thinking

Niche enough that it's not profitable to continue producing them. 

[Tcrumpen]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

Niche enough that it's not profitable to continue producing them. 

That is a good point i just find it slightly annoying when companies just assume that's what the masses want, for the most part they are right but it might pay to limit selling of say ipods to Amazon so that way they can still sell them, just not in stores

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, Tcrumpen said:

That is a good point i just find it slightly annoying when companies just assume that's what the masses want, for the most part they are right but it might pay to limit selling of say ipods to Amazon so that way they can still sell them, just not in stores

The problem isn't just retail space -- they could easily just leave it on their website and not waste any retail space. But it's physically not worth the expense to keep the manufacturing lines up and running or to take up valuable warehouse space.

[Tcrumpen]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

The problem isn't just retail space -- they could easily just leave it on their website and not waste any retail space. But it's physically not worth the expense to keep the manufacturing lines up and running or to take up valuable warehouse space.

Suppose my problem with just societies attitude to this kind of thing we live in a disposable society. People scoff at me cos i still use my 9 year old ipod "Get with the times" they say. I retort with "It still works, why would i throw it away if it still works and it does what i want it to" That ipod has lasted me through secondary school and university and my first 3 jobs

 

I have beliefs that unless it's broken or you really have no need for it anymore keep using it until it's dead as a dodo, get the most out of the equipment you have

[Lawyer4Ever]

My only complaint about Apple is the cost of their products.  That being said, when you consider what you get, the cost is worth it.  I got a MacBook Pro on sale for $1149 during the holiday season and it is an incredible machine.  The retina screen alone is worth the price of admission.

[luigi90210]

7 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

i'm still waiting for a single ounce of proof for this one....

the iphones slowing down as the battery gets older isnt proof? what about how OSx uses more ram on older macbooks then it does on newer ones? is that not proof

its pretty easy to be an apple fanboy when you have your blinders on 

[79wjd]

 

4 minutes ago, luigi90210 said:

the iphones slowing down as the battery gets older isnt proof? what about how OSx uses more ram on older macbooks then it does on newer ones? is that not proof

its pretty easy to be an apple fanboy when you have your blinders on 

So they slow down only the non plus models....why not also slow down the plus models. It seems silly to only convince those who bought non plus models to upgrade (not to mention that a phone randomly shutting down will convince people to upgrade a lot faster than a slower phone). And have any proof of that second claim? I've never noticed an older mac using more ram than a newer one. 

 

It's even easier to blindly hate a company and accuse them of behavior that literally don't make sense given the available information. 

[luigi90210]

22 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

 

So they slow down only the non plus models....why not also slow down the plus models. It seems silly to only convince those who bought non plus models to upgrade (not to mention that a phone randomly shutting down will convince people to upgrade a lot faster than a slower phone). And have any proof of that second claim? I've never noticed an older mac using more ram than a newer one. 

 

It's even easier to blindly hate a company and accuse them of behavior that literally don't make sense given the available information. 

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5992454
 

Quote

Hi guys,

Weirdly my macbook pro (mid 2012 model) is using too much ram, core i5, 4 gb ram

Take a look at this screenshot...

 

While I took this screen, I was using only chrome (4 tabs), itunes (wasn't playing anything), and utorrent, nothing else!

 

I have a friend who has a Macbook Air 13.3" and with VM, CAD software, music playing, safari, his macbook uses 3.80 gb (same as me without VM)

 

I've done a clean install of the OSX 10.9.2 (to remove previous mountain lion files etc), my computer even frozen once, had to manually turn it off...

 

Does anyone know what can I do? Thinking about buying buying 2 modules of 4 gb but is there another solution besides buying more ram? This laptop isn't 1 year old =/

 

Thank you guys!

clean install, 3.8GB of ram used and this is considered normal on an older macbook

ask anyone who works on macs, they will tell you the same thing i am telling you and the only solution for this is a ram upgrade(assuming your macbook can even have its ram upgraded)

 

also the fact that you're defending apple on slowing down iphones says a lot already, if a car manufacture did that to your car you wouldnt be defending it so i dont see why you would defend apple on this subject, no other android phones do that either, what apple is basically doing is they are running your devices so close to the edge that if there is any sort of voltage ripple, it shutdowns, here in the PC world, when we build our systems, we dont use a power supply that has barely enough wattage to power our computers to the point of hard shutdowns, why is apple doing that with their phones

also dont put words down my mouth, i dont hate apple nor do i dislike them blindly, its very evident they dont care about their customers otherwise they wouldnt be making laptop that dont turn on the cooling fans until they are at the point of the thermal limit, they wouldnt be making laptops with no cooling vents and they wouldnt be slowing down peoples phones just because the battery has degraded 2% from normal use 

 

im done here, if you want to be sheeple than go for it, more power to you
I on the other hand will continue to be a smart consumer and continue to buy products that offer me the best value for my money

[79wjd]

36 minutes ago, luigi90210 said:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5992454
 

clean install, 3.8GB of ram used and this is considered normal on an older macbook

ask anyone who works on macs, they will tell you the same thing i am telling you and the only solution for this is a ram upgrade(assuming your macbook can even have its ram upgraded)

So your proof is one thread where two computers running under entirely different conditions use a different amount of memory and the there isn't even a screenshot of what's running on the second computer. Wow, that's some damning evidence. 

Quote

also the fact that you're defending apple on slowing down iphones says a lot already, if a car manufacture did that to your car you wouldnt be defending it so i dont see why you would defend apple on this subject, no other android phones do that either, what apple is basically doing is they are running your devices so close to the edge that if there is any sort of voltage ripple, it shutdowns, here in the PC world, when we build our systems, we dont use a power supply that has barely enough wattage to power our computers to the point of hard shutdowns, why is apple doing that with their phones

If a car manufacturer disabled a cylinder to prevent the engine from randomly stalling at 80 miles an hour I'd be very happy. I would just be pissed they didn't tell me about it and if I had to pay to fix the flaw. The only problem with this situation is that Apple didn't inform consumers; even charging to replace the battery is arguably okay (although it still should have been a free replacement for any phone <2 years old) since batteries are expected to be expendable and degrade over time.

 

No other Android phones throttle, but they do randomly shut down. And the battery being too small is a design flaw or an oversight, that's very different from planned obsolescence. 

Quote

also dont put words down my mouth, i dont hate apple nor do i dislike them blindly, its very evident they dont care about their customers otherwise they wouldnt be making laptop that dont turn on the cooling fans until they are at the point of the thermal limit, they wouldnt be making laptops with no cooling vents and they wouldnt be slowing down peoples phones just because the battery has degraded 2% from normal use 

It doesn't throttle at 2% degredation. Period. Full stop. It's not until the 20% degradation mark that throttling occurs.

 

And their fan curve is on the extreme side and their cooling isn't adequate enough to handle the cpu/gpu under full load, but I also set up my fan curve in a similar fashion -- the fan doesn't kick in until I'm around 70º. 

 

36 minutes ago, luigi90210 said:

im done here

Goodbye. 

[TheGleaner]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

If a car manufacturer disabled a cylinder to prevent the engine from randomly stalling at 80 miles an hour I'd be very happy. I would just be pissed they didn't tell me about it. 

 

No other Android phones throttle, but they do randomly shut down. And the battery being too small is a design flaw or an oversight, that's very different from planned obsolescence. 

Gone are the days when people over engineered things to last for 40+ years, you know built to last.(want examples? ask)

 

Also any manufacture that has tried to do that has ended badly-thus destroying the engine, I wouldn't as within 5 years I would need a new engine-that costs more than the vehicle itself.(also have examples)

 

It depends-was the flaw or oversight on purpose or accident? Did the engineers do it or was it a bean counter?

[TopHatProductions115]

20 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

I guess random shutdowns are better. 

Or, they simply could have done a proper recall, like any good OEM should. Instead, let's charge you for the fact that your battery is crapping out. I don't own an iPhone. But my mother does, and I can see why this battery thing is an issue. If your warranty is out, you're paying anywhere from 30-70 USD to remedy this. At that point (due to the cost of the operation), you might as well just do an iFixIt and flip the bird to any possibility of extending your device warranty - which also sucks.

[TopHatProductions115]

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

So your proof is one thread where two computers running under entirely different conditions use a different amount of memory and the there isn't even a screenshot of what's running on the second computer. Wow, that's some damning evidence. 

 

If a car manufacturer disabled a cylinder to prevent the engine from randomly stalling at 80 miles an hour I'd be very happy. I would just be pissed they didn't tell me about it and if I had to pay to fix the flaw. The only problem with this situation is that Apple didn't inform consumers; even charging to replace the battery is arguably okay (although it still should have been a free replacement for any phone <2 years old) since batteries are expected to be expendable and degrade over time.

 

No other Android phones throttle, but they do randomly shut down. And the battery being too small is a design flaw or an oversight, that's very different from planned obsolescence. 

It doesn't throttle at 2% degredation. Period. Full stop. It's not until the 20% degradation mark that throttling occurs.

 

And their fan curve is on the extreme side and their cooling isn't adequate enough to handle the cpu/gpu under full load, but I also set up my fan curve in a similar fashion -- the fan doesn't kick in until I'm around 70º. 

 

Goodbye. 

I am sorry to post this, but luigi90210's link actually included information about what was running on the second computer. If you wanted such, simply follow the link that he included in his post, and scroll down a little. While there isn't a screenshot for the second computer, enough data is provided to possibly come to a decent conclusion.

 

Now, to address luigi90210,...

 

If the data is true, It appears as though the Pro (2012 model) is running slower than the Air (2013 model). Both computers are running with 4GB of RAM, which is pretty strange. It appears as though memory management is a bit off on the Pro model for some reason - even though they are using the same OS version (might not be the case). The only difference is the use of a HDD on the Pro model (in comparison to the SSD in the Air model). In addition to this, Chrome is known to eat but CPU time and RAM on most OS's. 

 

Thus, what we are looking at here is a possible bottleneck, due to deficiency(-ies) in storage speed and RAM amount (which is costly under OS X Mavericks and newer). The combination of these two issues, on a slightly-older system, could account for the noticeable performance difference.

 

For more info on RAM use within OS X modern, please see:

 

• https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/os-x-10-9/17/#compressed-memory

 

Now, back to djdwosk97

 

Furthermore, purposefully disabling hardware in a product you release, due to a lack of expected longevity, without formally notifying the user(s) affected, is very bad business practice.  That's part of the reason why people dislike Apple. It's unscrupulous, and they should have said something before pushing an update like that. At least say it to their faces - not sneak it in during an update.

 

I'm not taking sides here, but please read the entirety of a post's content before leaving a response like that. With this, I unsubscribe from this thread. Bad show

Edited January 11, 2018 by TopHatProductions115
Added an important section on proper business ethic.

[Drak3]

2 hours ago, luigi90210 said:

smart consumer and continue to buy products that offer me the best value for my money

Few things:

 

1) Value is not strictly objective, nor is it one size fits all.

 

2) Products like the MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, and iMac Pro are/were offering damn near the same value as their (true) Windows and Linux equivalents when looking at intended roles: high end, individual workstations. They might not be the best value for gaming, but the color accuracy of the panels, fine tuning of software, and the exact component selection (and the reasoning behind it) is not cheap.

[TheGleaner]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Few things:

 

1) Value is not strictly objective, nor is it one size fits all.

 

2) Products like the MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, and iMac Pro are/were offering damn near the same value as their (true) Windows and Linux equivalents when looking at intended roles: high end, individual workstations. They might not be the best value for gaming, but the color accuracy of the panels, fine tuning of software, and the exact component selection (and the reasoning behind it) is not cheap.

Once again "value" is a matter of opinion. To some people macs don't fit into "high end"

[Drak3]

Just now, TheGleaner said:

To some people macs don't fit into "high end"

Those are usually the same people that think gaming is the utmost important thing computers can do.

 

1 minute ago, TheGleaner said:

Once again "value" is a matter of opinion.

When it comes down to the point where Apple's machine performs the same as the Linux or Windows in the same tasks, the machines cost the same, the few things people can form opinions on are petty squabble.

[Canada EH]

10 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

design flaw

LOL yeah right!

[AtomicWaveBlast]

Apple just is shit, overprice their shit phones and macs. Apple is a very successful company but man dont like em

[luigi90210]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

high end, individual workstations. 

high end workstation with a dual core processor and a crap GPU

or i can buy these quad core processors with a better gpu for any kind of workload and save money and if i need an OSx work environment i can hackintosh it or i can run OSx in a VM

 

terrible value for performance please try again

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, luigi90210 said:

terrible value for performance please try again

Comparing a mobile workstation class system to a gaming laptop from a company whose QC starts and ends with "Is it in one piece? Eh, fuck it, it ships either way."

 

Compare it to an MSI WS63:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834154527&cm_re=MSI_WS63-_-34-154-527-_-Product

 

What it has going for it:

16GB extra memory.

2GB more dedicated VRAM.

2TB spinner.

Port selection.

 

What the MBP has going for it:

Far better track pad

Roughly double the battery life

Better color accuracy, especially out of the box

 

For the prices, tradeoffs are reasonable.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-WS63-7RF-i7-7700HQ-FHD-P3000-Workstation-Review.232262.0.html

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/msi-ws63

 

 

And if you're a video editor, Final Cut Pro X is a one time $300. Adobe Premiere is $20 monthly, $240 yearly, Vegas Pro Edit is $300 CURRENTLY, normal price is $800. Suddenly, the price difference in the MBP disappears.

6 minutes ago, luigi90210 said:

better gpu for any kind of workload

AMD components fall behind in gaming. Their cards perform far better outside of gaming scenarios.

 

7 minutes ago, luigi90210 said:

with a dual core processor

Literally states quad core in that image for the MBP 15" default options.

 

[luigi90210]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Comparing a mobile workstation class system to a gaming laptop from a company whose QC starts and ends with "Is it in one piece? Eh, fuck it, it ships either way."

 

don't get me started on QC standards from apple, they are just as bad if not worse than razer which is why i picked razer

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

And if you're a video editor, Final Cut Pro X is a one time $300. Adobe Premiere is $20 monthly, $240 yearly, Vegas Pro Edit is $300 CURRENTLY, normal price is $800. Suddenly, the price difference in the MBP disappears.

 

OSx runs in a VM as well as on hardware PCs run on so no the price disparity doesn't disappear, i can spend 2 hours installing OSx on that razer laptop and benefit from all the pricing advantages OSx offers, this is a non argument, im not talking about other application OS, it doesn't apply here nor does it make the MBP any better from a value standpoint that's like me saying the razer laptop comes with a windows license and if i use windows for my work i have to spend an extra $120 on windows just to work on the MBP so the razer is even better

 

10 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

AMD components fall behind in gaming. Their cards perform far better outside of gaming scenarios.

 

uuuhhh no, a 1060 in and outside of gaming will perform better in every way compared to the radeon pro 460, video encoding, rendering, data calculations, even mining all goes in favor of the 1060, thats not a vega GPU, its a polaris GPU not to mention thats a mobile GPU while the 1060 is a desktop gpu so again everything is in favor of the 1060 here
 

12 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

 

Literally states quad core in that image for the MBP 15" default options.

 

got me there so ill give you that but that doesnt really detract from my point, the MBP is a terrible value, the only thing it really has is maybe the screen but if im a video editor, im editing off a professional grade monitor, not the monitor that came with the computer and if im editing on the go, the razer display is just as capable as the MBP is heck you even linked a better laptop for video editing and cad modeling than i did and that again proves my point of apple being a bad value considering for the same price you get a quadro card with that

[TheGleaner]

3 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Those are usually the same people that think gaming is the utmost important thing computers can do.

 

When it comes down to the point where Apple's machine performs the same as the Linux or Windows in the same tasks, the machines cost the same, the few things people can form opinions on are petty squabble.

I think of high end I think of Xeons/server grade, not i5s and i7s

 

Except for the fact that there is no "apple enterprise" and I can guarantee you there are quite a few programs that don't have mac versions(like soildworks, an industry standard) or just run like crap on them(from experience"lets design on a mac, then render it" "why?!")

[79wjd]

13 hours ago, TopHatProductions115 said:

I am sorry to post this, but luigi90210's link actually included information about what was running on the second computer. If you wanted such, simply follow the link that he included in his post, and scroll down a little. While there isn't a screenshot for the second computer, enough data is provided to possibly come to a decent conclusion.

Except you have to assume that they're actually half-competent and list everything that's running -- which you know isn't true just by looking at the screenshot that's there. "I was using only chrome (4 tabs), itunes (wasn't playing anything), and utorrent, nothing else!" but there is more running and on top of that, why not make an actual comparison when the two are running the exact same programs? There are a lot of variables that can affect things and that are simply not known. 

Quote

Now, back to djdwosk97

 

Furthermore, purposefully disabling hardware in a product you release, due to a lack of expected longevity, without formally notifying the user(s) affected, is very bad business practice.  That's part of the reason why people dislike Apple. It's unscrupulous, and they should have said something before pushing an update like that. At least say it to their faces - not sneak it in during an update.

I agree fully that it was handled horribly, but planned obsolescence it was not.

11 hours ago, kk027 said:

I would have said to prevent the car from having bad efficiency. That is comparable to bad battery life.

The throttling isn't just about bad battery life -- it's to prevent the phone from randomly shutting down. 

[Ace McPlane]

I was an apple fan way back in the late 80's, early 90's when we had the Apple II and then the Macintosh.

They were really cool and good for their time back then...

 

These days though, 

all they care about is aesthetics.

Even if a mac has a decent CPU/GPU, it's going to be completely kneecapped by the lack of any decent cooling solution.

That's the cost of making everything thinner and thinner.

 

Now they're just fancy pants facebook machines to me.

 

I spent years working with apple products doing soundtracks, and let me tell you... I am strait up bitter about how much time I wasted with all the problems on macs due to under powered hardware when I could have been using a PC with ease all along. When you work with giant sample libraries, terabytes worth of samples and keyswtich articulations... you need a lot of horsepower. 

I wasted so much time because I bought a mac back then

and paid more than I would have for a better PC.

 

The reasons to dislike apple these days are extremely legitimate.

 

With that said though, I still love retro macs.

[BarackOBatman]

Anti Consumer.

High price for same specs.

Bad case of planned obsolescence. (not that other manufacturers are all that much better)

As an educated consumer, I prefer a product which I can take full control of and customize at a deeper level. For those who don't care or don't have the time to learn more about their device, Apple makes more sense.