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Johners

Mojang Restricting Minecraft Servers Ability to Make Money

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Mojang are Rolling In it and Now they are Getting all Petty and Bringing out the Million Dollar Layers at the Community that, lets face it, Made Minecraft to be what it is now.

Meh, It was bound to happen Eventually


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I fully support this. You are not entitled to getting money off people just because you host a server for someone else's product. Especially when it's manipulative incentive based where some are paying in the hundreds of dollars for features. This is more important when you consider what @coolkingler1 linked. Some kid uses their parents credit card without permission for perks and who do the parents complain to? Mojang, not the 3rd party servers.I share the same feelings as Mojang do. It's like "Sure, you can host servers for our popular game, but please don't exploit them." This is what the problem is and I'm glad it's addressed.

 

Imagine if parts of this forum were locked down and only those who donated large amounts of cash had access to them. Imagine if one of the several 12 year olds ( :ph34r: ...) used their parents money to access all of the forum. Linus wouldn't want to deal with angry parents. It's that simple. If you host a server, cool. But as Mojang wants, keep it donation based only. If you're not getting enough to keep the server running, shut it down. No one is forcing you to host one. If you're only hosting a server to exploit people in the first place, you're a terrible person. - I do sympathize for those that did release their own content. I feel this should be a legitimate exception.@Vitalius


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-snip-

I will admit I don't know quite enough about the Minecraft ecosystem to give a proper response to the topic....but I can discuss a few issues you brought up.

 

The first being the MS example.  The reason why you can use features in Microsoft and not be charged for it is simply because Microsoft allows it....and to an extend certain developers do pay Microsoft to allow their applications/drivers.  Actually for drivers on Windows it costs a few hundred dollars every single year *I can't quote anything, I haven't done research for this for a few years now...but I remember it to be a few hundred a year*.  I think the same is for MS applications, you need to pay for the signing of code....although Windows does allow unsigned code to be released and sold.  So it isn't that Microsoft ignores the people, they built their system around the concept of openness (in the sense of applications), because they didn't have much of a choice but to do that anyways *What makes Windows successful is they allow that sort of thing*.

 

 

So moving onto Minecraft, it will all be determined by how the plugin/reward system is being used.  This is getting into the murky area of law really (whether API's can be copyrighted, and the use of API's infringing them...I would say it would depend on circumstances over the legality of it, but that is my opinion).  So lets go for the simple more straightforward case, a Minecraft server is selling for perks...this is inherently in Mojang's control, this is merely due to the fact servers hosting Minecraft are using the code from Mojang, and they ultimately control the ecosystem (if you use the program, and they say you cannot charge for in-game items then it is their say so).  The less clear case is charging for plugins, as they are just accessing games API's.  So if the plugin actually adds to the game and can be used in other servers, then I would argue that it is seperate from Minecraft and can be sold....this comes with a clause though.  If all the plugin really is doing is telling the server it has a plugin and allows access to more internal things in the game, then it shouldn't be allowed.  The reason being that you move back into selling for perks.  Yes your code is something new, but it is not adding anything to Minecraft...instead it is just telling the server to allow the player to have things.  That is where I personally draw the line, when a plugin is effectively server-side


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The fact that this guy actually even entertained the idea that YouTube isn't behind minecrafts success tells me all I need to know. What a freaking idiot. Every kid in the world found out about minecraft through YouTube.

 

Side note, minecraft servers are what make the game. Why are you pulling an EA Mojang Wtf. Mojang = EA 0/10 least favorite developer.


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Do I need to link all the programs that make money that only work on Windows? Because I could do it for literal days. They require Windows to be useful. Many of them more than likely use parts of Windows built-in features to work. 

You might say, "Well, Microsoft is an example of a developer that doesn't care.", but you have to realize that whatever people make, regardless of whatever it's intended program to be used with is, is written in some language. For Minecraft, that's Java. If I made a game that could import the things I made for Minecraft into it, would you find it acceptable then for me to sell it? If most of my sales were because people were using it in Minecraft when I just said "These are for my game, even though it works in Minecraft too."

I'm sorry, but that's just a bad argument. Whether someone would buy what I made, if some famous program used it, or not, doesn't matter imo. I still made it. It's mine. I should be able to sell it. Where people find the utility of it seems like it shouldn't matter for mods (note I'm only talking about mods for games here). 

What if the shop and MC were separate then? What if I just had a shop that said "Hey, buy my Java mods for Minecraft." but didn't run a server? Would that be acceptable? If not, then what would be acceptable? Me just selling random java extensions for nothing in particular? If that's fine, then my shop isn't for Minecraft. What you use it in is your business, but here's a hint: It only works in Minecraft. 

All that's hypothetical of course. I don't know a lick of Java, but still. 

Again, you have NO right or expectation to demand you be allowed to profit off another person's work. An operating system is not a video game. An operating system is dependent on 3rd party applications because those applications drive sales. A video game is in no way dependent on your modification to drive sales of the game. I'd find 100 more points to use to prove you wrong and prove you are just greedy and entitled, but it's a waste of my time.


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-snip-

Realms is mojangs own cloud-based minecraft server hosting system that is built into the client. You can get a server for a few players rather cheaply, but you can't install mods/plugins or anything like that.

 

I run a server, and Mojang doesn't realize that mine, and many other servers rely on server stores to operate. My store isn't P2W, I set it up so its not, but not many people would donate without an incentive.

They're going to ruin the entire community if they do this.

A. Large server networks employing developers to keep the servers online and updated will cease to operate

B. Developers will leave the community as servers will no longer be able to pay for plugins

C. Buycraft, one of the largest store management/WebUI plugins will lose most of its business (they're actually in talks with McMyAdmin to get it integrated into the control panel, this could ruin that business agreement)

D. Hosts dedicated to Minecraft server hosting may go bankrupt as servers cannot pay for hosting anymore

 

I feel there's an underlying cause here. Mojang wants more money through realms, and limiting third party servers will do exactly that.


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IMO this is an insane move by mojang... They should be figuring out how to monetize this, not shut it down...

Get a percentage of the cut, kinda like twitch subs?

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How would people like it if it was donations were built in to the game.. So Mojang could control the maximum players can donate and what they can get in return.. 

 

 

sooo... are people going to get refunds now or what???

 

but if people are demanding to get their money back for something mojang did, and then have the server owner half to pay the refunds out of their pocket, this may become problematic...

 

Refunds for what.. Their donations or the game.. 


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I would love to hear the opinion of Linus and Luke on next weeks WAN show, although it would kinda be old news then. As an Admin on a large 500+ player server, I may have a biased opinion but I feel like Mojang is going overboard but some of these pay to win servers are pretty horrible. Take this for example. I agree some servers are going a bit overboard, kids sometimes take their parents credit cards and if there is a $500 they will take it. I would say parents should be more careful with what they give their children access to but I know thats not what's gonna happen. 

 

IMO this is an insane move by mojang... They should be figuring out how to monetize this, not shut it down...

That actually wouldn't be a bad idea as long as they keep the cut below like 40%. They are already indirectly making a cut off servers though. The only reason people BUY Minecraft is so they can play on servers, if they just wanted to play single player they will just play the cracked versions or the Pocket/Xbox 360/PS3 editions. Additionally, many people who get banned on the servers they play on for breaking the rules tend to buy new accounts. Large scale Minecraft servers are definitely not free to make, you need to pay for server hosting, good DDoS mitigation services, developers, in some cases map builders, advertisements and youtube sponsorships, and many of these servers have multiple owners and higher ranked staff that share the cut. They still make pretty good profit margins but that's what drives them to come up with new ideas and minigames.

Look how much Minecraft has evolved in the past 2 years or so. I can tell you, most of it was server level. Of course Mojang also made good innovations on Minecraft and continued to support their title unlike other developers, and we should all be grateful of that fact. But servers and their sometimes extreme profits are what keep this game alive.

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Most servers don't have some contract you sign to donate. 

I'm guessing the server owner doesn't have to pay back anything if the users are mad unless they just want to. They were "donations" after all.

No they technically don't have to. But most of the time they will just charge back their Paypal donations and somehow manage to win the case, and the server owner gets "fined" by paypal every time that happens.

Also I would say 90% of servers that have above 100 players on say in their Terms and Conditions that it is refundable and that you need to be 18 or older or have a guardian's permission to buy such ranks. Of course the problem lies in kids not reading the terms and conditions, which, who really blames them, and some servers sell ranks over $200. Thier parents find out and blame Mojang. This makes it horrible for Mojang support members such as Marc. Of course the parents will eventually start bothering the owners, developers, and admins who are already working on something for the server, such as a new mini game. It's a lose-lose-lose-lose situation. The parents have to deal with this, the kid gets banned, and the parents drive Mojang support and the server owners crazy. Some direct intervention from Mojang may help but from what we know so far this is too much.

 

Here's an example of one servers donation "store":

http://gyazo.com/90b515ddc68aaef691e9e813b2dfe0bb

http://gyazo.com/68e1097b6df8f7a746042f96568447b0

EDIT: I meant to say "it is not refundable". Oops

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sooo... are people going to get refunds now or what???

 

but if people are demanding to get their money back for something mojang did, and then have the server owner half to pay the refunds out of their pocket, this may become problematic...

This has been in the ToS for months, if not years. Mojang has NEVER endorsed for this to happen. If you want a refund you talk to the server owner that you bought the in-game stuff from NOT Mojang.

 

It's there in black and white. Mojang never "did" anything, it's been like this for years yet people do not want to follow the ToS. Who's fault is that? Not Mojang.

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Why don't the servers just try to get actual donations?

"Give us money and the server will be here next week too."

That's worked just fine for many other games. No need to make the game pay-to-win.

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