Nvidia Admits "We're Falling Behind on the Frame Rate Race"

[Zims]

So AMD for single GPU setups because better FPS and games included

but

nVidia for SLI because AMD isn`t even an option.

Right?

[MzCatieB]

Adobe dropped CUDA support.

its optional now, and i use autodesk 3d software more

[naca1227]

If companies weren't complete ***'s when they have a monopoly I would love to see AMD and Nvidia just have a big love baby

[BookerDeWitt]

So AMD for single GPU setups because better FPS and games included

but

nVidia for SLI because AMD isn`t even an option.

Right?

Well that is until Heart Beat is release next month, then AMD will just win in both categories, assuming Nvidia just over-prices their new series of cards like they did last time.

[naca1227]

Well that is until Heart Beat is release next month, then AMD will just win in both categories, assuming Nvidia just over-prices their new series of cards like they did last time.

Agreed, $1000 bucks for an overclocked 680? Fuck that. AMD needs to compete and come out with the Radeon Colossus

[Venorik_Streea]

Well that is until Heart Beat is release next month, then AMD will just win in both categories, assuming Nvidia just over-prices their new series of cards like they did last time.

Excuse my ignorance. Heart Beat?

[ShearMe]

With Kepler, it's obvious that Nvidia was trying to hit specific price brackets to compete with AMD instead of just making great GPUs.

[cDNA]

People have to realize that in reality, frame rates are far more important than frame latency, because the frame latency issues only affect a fraction of the consumer base, because it only exists on multi-gpu setups.

While frame rates affect everyone.

So if lets 2% (they're actually less than that but for the sake of the argument) of graphics consumers are SLI/Crossfire users , then AMD is ahead in 98% of the market segment.

well that is not entirely true. frame latency is indeed more of an issue in multi-GPUs setups but that doesnt mean that it is not one in single GPU systems. maybe its more difficult to see and mesure doesnt mean it doesnt exist. we cannot make much conclusion on the  frame rate/ frame latency issue as long as we have so little data to work on; until we have easy and broad way to mesure frame latency we can't make much conclusions on the matter

[TechFan@ic]

Excuse my ignorance. Heart Beat?

Heat Beat™ is AMD's new frame timing technology that paces the frames in Crossfire one after another to give a smoother animation.

[naca1227]

Heat Beat™ is AMD's new frame timing technology that paces the frames in Crossfire one after another to give a smoother animation.

I like Nvidia right now better for the GPU's but it really seems to me that AMD has really been working hard. I think I might switch if this keeps up

[Immort]

well that is not entirely true. frame latency is indeed more of an issue in multi-GPUs setups but that doesnt mean that it is not one in single GPU systems. maybe its more difficult to see and mesure doesnt mean it doesnt exist. we cannot make much conclusion on the  frame rate/ frame latency issue as long as we have so little data to work on; until we have easy and broad way to mesure frame latency we can't make much conclusions on the matter

It is impossible to see micro-stutter/frame-time/frame-latency differences between AMD & Nvidia on single GPU solutions even after slowing the animation by 5x so it's an utter waste of time to focus on something that isn't even perceivable & doesn't affect the gaming experience.

[cDNA]

It is impossible to see micro-stutter/frame-time/frame-latency differences between AMD & Nvidia on single GPU solutions even after slowing the animation by 5x so it's an utter waste of time to focus on something that isn't even perceivable & doesn't affect the gaming experience.

well ok you are right, but the quality of a GPU cannot only be counted in frames. and my personnal opinion is that neither frame rate or frame latency is a "ggod enough" way to mesure the quality of a card. its an "easy enough" way for sure but for me more indicators the better

[ShearMe]

well that is not entirely true. frame latency is indeed more of an issue in multi-GPUs setups but that doesnt mean that it is not one in single GPU systems. maybe its more difficult to see and mesure doesnt mean it doesnt exist. we cannot make much conclusion on the  frame rate/ frame latency issue as long as we have so little data to work on; until we have easy and broad way to mesure frame latency we can't make much conclusions on the matter

 

Refer yourself to post #15: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/15745-nvidia-admits-were-falling-behind-on-the-frame-rate-race/?p=177619

[TechFan@ic]

well ok you are right, but the quality of a GPU cannot only be counted in frames. and my personnal opinion is that neither frame rate or frame latency is a "ggod enough" way to mesure the quality of a card. its an "easy enough" way for sure but for me more indicators the better

Sure, that's why revewers use Heat, Noise & Power Consumption as supplemental metrics as well as Price.

[cDNA]

Sure, that's why revewers use Heat, Noise & Power Consumption as supplemental metrics as well as Price.

well thats not an indicator of performance.... i would like to see comparaison made on i dont know, physics calculation, colors determination i have no idea what else can differentiate two GPU but im sure there is a lot of things we could mesure in a "scientific" way to compare GPUs and not just frame rate/latency. and heat, noise, power are more relevent of the manufacture of the card and not the actual GPU itself

[Lukiose]

atlease Nvidia have more stable frame rates in SLI than AMD does... amd just tosses horses at people without thinking... nvidia just <3 there CUDA and PhysX... there the more flashy and reliable side of graphics cards... amd are the unreliable sports card.

also AMD cant do:

 

Totally doesn't sound like a fanboy /sarcasm

Yeah you're right, AMD cards aren't capable of anything else other than horsepower either.

[naca1227]

Totally doesn't sound like a fanboy /sarcasm

Yeah you're right, AMD cards aren't capable of anything else other than horsepower either.

I like TressFX but it needs to understand that hair has more weight as well as gets tangles together so it moves less

[Lukiose]

I like TressFX but it needs to understand that hair has more weight as well as gets tangles together so it moves less

Yeah, but i posted that just as a reminder for a certain group of people that likes to go all "Ooo Nvidia has PhysX and CUDA and shit while AMD has nothing! Look how bad AMD are."

[naca1227]

Yeah, but i posted that just as a reminder for a certain group of people that likes to go all "Ooo Nvidia has PhysX and CUDA and shit while AMD has nothing! Look how bad AMD are."

I know you did, It would be cool if Nvidia and AMD passed the recipe for TressFX and PhysX to eachother in the name of tech and games. More or less optimization for the different GPU's

[afa7336]

This whole AMD/Nvidia fighting is stupid though. Look, each have their good points and bad points. I've owned and loved both. But currently running Nvidia, because ironically w/monitors 3d surround was about 500 USD cheaper then AMD solution (Yes same size/type monitors and cards). That said, lets get to the meat of the article and what this post is about. Nvidia.

 

 

While getting 300 FPS is great, but when your screen is tearing or your getting frame lag like a mother... You know, I'd take 60 stable fps over the higher frames. I'd also like to argue that Dual GPU is such a small share of the market. I haven't been able to find data to backup whether it is or it isn't, but when you consider that not only do you have traditional SLI to take into account you have cards like the 690, and 7990 and the like. 

[SkilledRebuilds]

I surprised not a lot of people mention it.

The AMD heartbeat their working on is software based frame rating tool,..Nvidia have had their own hardware version for years. <- this is the part no one seems to be mentioning, or they already know.

 

They made it their focus a long time ago to deliver smooth frames

 I wish AMD had caught on sooner however at least now there is something being done about it, and if both companies graphics cards were on true level playing fields as far as frame rating goes, then it will be an interesting article to read indeed.

 

If you want Nvidia Physx with an AMD card it really isnt that hard to get working..srsly!

Cuda means nothing to someone like me, I'm using opencl applications anyway. But saying that, I'll admit Cuda has its place for those who use it. But I think the Physx should be universally attainable whether Nvidia or AMD...

[Lukiose]

I know you did, It would be cool if Nvidia and AMD passed the recipe for TressFX and PhysX to eachother in the name of tech and games. More or less optimization for the different GPU's

It would be awesome if they did, but in the name of competition and ongoing innovation it's in everyone's best interests to leave it as it is :)

[naca1227]

If you want Nvidia Physx with an AMD card it really isnt that hard to get working..srsly!

Cuda means nothing to someone like me, I'm using opencl applications anyway. But saying that, I'll admit Cuda has its place for those who use it. But I think the Physx should be universally attainable whether Nvidia or AMD...

Yes and the same for TressFX

[TechFan@ic]

well thats not an indicator of performance.... i would like to see comparaison made on i dont know, physics calculation, colors determination i have no idea what else can differentiate two GPU but im sure there is a lot of things we could mesure in a "scientific" way to compare GPUs and not just frame rate/latency. and heat, noise, power are more relevent of the manufacture of the card and not the actual GPU itself

There are physics calculations, shader performance & pixel fillrate benchmarks but non of it is indicative of real world performance.

Reviewers do them however with every architectural change to get a general idea of what sort of improvements have been made over the last one.

[Immort]

I surprised not a lot of people mention it.

The AMD heartbeat their working on is software based frame rating tool,..Nvidia have had their own hardware version for years. <- this is the part no one seems to be mentioning, or they already know.

Well I find this quite funny because Nvidia spent 7 years working on frame latency and yet AMD cards are smoother.

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/15745-nvidia-admits-were-falling-behind-on-the-frame-rate-race/#entry177619

What were they doing for 7 years ? they did a decent job with frame latency on two cards fair enough, but on single cards which the majority of gamers use the AMD cards are smoother, even the slower cards are smoother (7970 smoother than Titan)

So it doesn't really matter how long they've been working on it what's important are the results, dual card results are good no doubt, but for a company that's "spear-heading" the support for frame times their single cards are lagging, especially when you know that they've been working on it for more than 7 years.