Air cooling or water cooling

[sh4rif]

Hello Folks 

 

One very important question about keeping CPU temperature down to a control level when overclocking it to 4.7 or 4.8ghz on 4670K

 

there are loads of air and water cooler out there therefore it is very hard to pick one that would do the job specialy for overclocking more towards 5ghz.

 

being a naive would like your advise which one i should pick 

really appreciate your efforts 

 

 

Regards

 

Sharif

[Prokart2000]

can u get 5ghz

[loccilucas]

Hello Folks 

 

One very important question about keeping CPU temperature down to a control level when overclocking it to 4.7 or 4.8ghz on 4670K

 

there are loads of air and water cooler out there therefore it is very hard to pick one that would do the job specialy for overclocking more towards 5ghz.

 

being a naive would like your advise which one i should pick 

really appreciate your efforts 

 

 

Regards

 

Sharif

They are very high overclocks for haswell, I'm gonna say get the NH-D15 as it performs are well as the best AIO's but it is an aircooler so it will do it at half the volume, however if you have the money I'd say build a custom loop.

[Freaky_spider]

there is no saying that you will get 4.8GHz with your CPU, even with a custom loop, there are other factors that set the limit for your CPU's overclock that cant be controlled

[sh4rif]

can u get 5ghz

if you read fully i said more towards 5ghz i.e 4.7 or 4.8 not 5gh to be precise.. i hope that clears the confusion... thanks

[Prokart2000]

if you read fully i said more towards 5ghz i.e 4.7 or 4.8 not 5gh to be precise.. i hope that clears the confusion... thanks

ok i would recommend like a h105 or a nh-d15

[4960X]

I think the NH-D15 is the cooler you need to get your i5 to 4.7Ghz - 4.8Ghz. It's huge though so you may have to make sure it doesn't block the first PCIe slot on your mobo or something. You can see here that it handles the 3770K at 4.6Ghz like a boss.

 

http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15/8

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

NH-D14 or 15, or be quiet Dark Rock 2 or 3

[sh4rif]

They are very high overclocks for haswell, I'm gonna say get the NH-D15 as it performs are well as the best AIO's but it is an aircooler so it will do it at half the volume, however if you have the money I'd say build a custom loop.

thanks loccilucas, just wondering wouldn't that be a bit too heavy? just saying this after seeing the massive size of it

[loccilucas]

thanks loccilucas, just wondering wouldn't that be a bit too heavy? just saying this after seeing the massive size of it

No noctua's mounting hardware is the best in the business, they design it to be ok, weight won't be an issue.

[sh4rif]

I think the NH-D15 is the cooler you need to get your i5 to 4.7Ghz - 4.8Ghz. It's huge though so you may have to make sure it doesn't block the first PCIe slot on your mobo or something. You can see here that it handles the 3770K at 4.6Ghz like a boss.

 

http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15/8

thanks

[nj4ck]

if you read fully i said more towards 5ghz i.e 4.7 or 4.8 not 5gh to be precise.. i hope that clears the confusion... thanks

don't set your hopes too high. My 4670k maxes out at 4.3 GHz with full custom loop watercooling at 1.33V and that's not uncommon. I need upwards of 1.41V for 4.4GHz which causes CPU degradation. The clock speed doesn't matter for temperatures btw, it's the voltage that makes the heat. If you're going to be running at 1.2V you'd be fine with a Hyper 212 but you might want to look at the H100i or (even better) the NH-D15 if you're planning on going above 1.3V and if you're planning to apprach 5GHz (again, your playing the silicon lottery here, only very few chips are able to get to 4.7 GHz and above), you'll definitely need that kind of voltage.

[Faa]

Get whatever cooler you want, they'd all perform the same on 4670K's. Look up at nh-d15 reviews most of them tested it with haswell cpu's and there's no difference between all the coolers you can buy these days

[nlos]

When talking about NH-D15 or NH-D14, be extremely careful when choosing either. NH-D15 means that your RAM cannot be more than 32mm high on normal fan setting, or 37mm when the front fan is raised to the maximum height (which then means you need extra wide computer case!) (Source: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=compatibility_gen&products_id=68&lng=en). NH-D14 specifically includes 120mm fan as the second fan to fix this problem NH-D15 has with RAM. NH-D14 lets you fit a 44mm high RAM, which includes most RAM with low profile heat sink (Source: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=compatibility_gen&products_id=34&lng=en). So be careful with this. I normally go with NH-D14, because I can then fill all RAM slots with low profile heatsink RAM. And NH-D15 only provides a fractionally better cooling, which can be fixed with good case fans.

 

When comparing air cooling and water cooling: a good custom built watercooling loop setup will always beat air cooling, because the heat can be transferred efficiently away from the CPU into a huge radiator.

 

5GHz can be done, but with air or watercooling? It depends on your chip's quality. Some chips lets you increase the clock some insane amounts without increasing the voltages as much. Some need insane voltages for insane clocks, which results in insane heat. 5GHz is normally the minimum target for LN2 solutions, but I haven't ever been able to achieve that with air cooling.

 

I had 2700k running at 4.8GHz, but NH-D14 was struggling to keep it cool. I had to lower the clock and voltages in the end to avoid burning it.

 

So the question really is: do you want a custom loop or air cooling? If it is the latter: nothing really beats NH-D14 or NH-D15. They are almost the same, NH-D14 comes with a slightly smaller second fan, but has better RAM support as a result.

[nlos]

don't set your hopes too high. My 4670k maxes out at 4.3 GHz with full custom loop watercooling at 1.33V and that's not uncommon. I need upwards of 1.41V for 4.4GHz which causes CPU degradation. The clock speed doesn't matter for temperatures btw, it's the voltage that makes the heat. If you're going to be running at 1.2V you'd be fine with a Hyper 212 but you might want to look at the H100i or (even better) the NH-D15 if you're planning on going above 1.3V and if you're planning to apprach 5GHz (again, your playing the silicon lottery here, only very few chips are able to get to 4.7 GHz and above), you'll definitely need that kind of voltage.

 

I was on the same bus with you with my 4770k. It really drives me nuts to see someone just put 4.8GHz and boot with stock voltages and run some benchmarks. However as I found out, most 4770k (I assume 4670k doesn't clock that differently) don't overclock much past 4.2-4.3GHz when you try to keep your ring bus (a.k.a. cache or uncore) the same with the cores. This is the best overclocking guide I've come across for Haswell (http://www.overclock.net/t/1411077/haswell-overclocking-guide-with-statistics). I've read through about 30 different ones and that is a clear winner!

 

As a result from the above guide: "core is still king" and "cache doesn't matter". It comes justified with evidence etc. If you really want speed out of your CPU: try lower your ring bus, or keep it at 34-35 and bump the core up. I was able to get from 4.0GHz (which was absolute max with 1.5V on my 4770k) to 4.7GHz, with just 1.475V. Key was to keep the ring bus at the default speed and only increase the core. 1.475V was a bit too much for my NH-D14 and I ended up with 1.375V for 4.5GHz. 1.35V was _almost_ stable!

 

Remember to increase the CPU's input voltage if you increase the core voltage much, otherwise your core voltage may not be stable as the CPU doesn't get enough power through. Again: be very careful and only increase very little at a time and keep benchmarking. It always takes days (literally!) to get something stable with high clock, but with also low heat! If you keep using your computer all the time: just a few days of effort is worth the years of extreme speed

 

Small tip: When I find a stable e.g. 4.3GHz: I save it under different "bios configuration name" and then keep fiddling more and know that all the while I can quit and know my best results are saved. My typical "load bios settings" menu looks like this:

43 Stable

44 Stable

45 Stable

46 Unstable

 

I know exactly which one to choose if my boot fails. The 46 is saved as unstable until I find the right settings for making it stable.

 

I really hope this helps! I also really struggled to get anything decent out of my 4770k, but I managed to get something in the end!

 

P.S. Don't use my voltages! Find out your own. My voltages may or may not destroy/blow up everything and everywhere.

[nj4ck]

I was on the same bus with you with my 4770k. It really drives me nuts to see someone just put 4.8GHz and boot with stock voltages and run some benchmarks. However as I found out, most 4770k (I assume 4670k doesn't clock that differently) don't overclock much past 4.2-4.3GHz when you try to keep your ring bus (a.k.a. cache or uncore) the same with the cores. This is the best overclocking guide I've come across for Haswell (http://www.overclock.net/t/1411077/haswell-overclocking-guide-with-statistics). I've read through about 30 different ones and that is a clear winner!

 

As a result from the above guide: "core is still king" and "cache doesn't matter". It comes justified with evidence etc. If you really want speed out of your CPU: try lower your ring bus, or keep it at 34-35 and bump the core up. I was able to get from 4.0GHz (which was absolute max with 1.5V on my 4770k) to 4.7GHz, with just 1.475V. Key was to keep the ring bus at the default speed and only increase the core. 1.475V was a bit too much for my NH-D14 and I ended up with 1.375V for 4.5GHz. 1.35V was _almost_ stable!

 

Remember to increase the CPU's input voltage if you increase the core voltage much, otherwise your core voltage may not be stable as the CPU doesn't get enough power through. Again: be very careful and only increase very little at a time and keep benchmarking. It always takes days (literally!) to get something stable with high clock, but with also low heat! If you keep using your computer all the time: just a few days of effort is worth the years of extreme speed

 

Small tip: When I find a stable e.g. 4.3GHz: I save it under different "bios configuration name" and then keep fiddling more and know that all the while I can quit and know my best results are saved. My typical "load bios settings" menu looks like this:

43 Stable

44 Stable

45 Stable

46 Unstable

 

I know exactly which one to choose if my boot fails. The 46 is saved as unstable until I find the right settings for making it stable.

 

I really hope this helps! I also really struggled to get anything decent out of my 4770k, but I managed to get something in the end!

 

P.S. Don't use my voltages! Find out your own. My voltages may or may not destroy/blow up everything and everywhere.

Watch out with voltages above 1.35V, I had my 4670k running at 1.4 for a few days and it degraded my CPU, even though temps never exceeded 80°C. With the overclock I'm currently running, I went for a 1:1 core/cache ratio, so I have both multipliers set to 43 and am stable. I might go ahead and try some OCing with the cache multiplier somewhere between 30-40 though, see how that works. Haven't had much time, lately

[Joshua Ondangan]

well for me it's either this 2

 

 

air coller (noctua d14/15)

custom water cooling (go nuts on radiators.

[sh4rif]

When talking about NH-D15 or NH-D14, be extremely careful when choosing either. NH-D15 means that your RAM cannot be more than 32mm high on normal fan setting, or 37mm when the front fan is raised to the maximum height (which then means you need extra wide computer case!) (Source: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=compatibility_gen&products_id=68&lng=en). NH-D14 specifically includes 120mm fan as the second fan to fix this problem NH-D15 has with RAM. NH-D14 lets you fit a 44mm high RAM, which includes most RAM with low profile heat sink (Source: http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=compatibility_gen&products_id=34&lng=en). So be careful with this. I normally go with NH-D14, because I can then fill all RAM slots with low profile heatsink RAM. And NH-D15 only provides a fractionally better cooling, which can be fixed with good case fans.

 

When comparing air cooling and water cooling: a good custom built watercooling loop setup will always beat air cooling, because the heat can be transferred efficiently away from the CPU into a huge radiator.

 

5GHz can be done, but with air or watercooling? It depends on your chip's quality. Some chips lets you increase the clock some insane amounts without increasing the voltages as much. Some need insane voltages for insane clocks, which results in insane heat. 5GHz is normally the minimum target for LN2 solutions, but I haven't ever been able to achieve that with air cooling.

 

I had 2700k running at 4.8GHz, but NH-D14 was struggling to keep it cool. I had to lower the clock and voltages in the end to avoid burning it.

 

So the question really is: do you want a custom loop or air cooling? If it is the latter: nothing really beats NH-D14 or NH-D15. They are almost the same, NH-D14 comes with a slightly smaller second fan, but has better RAM support as a result.

 

Thank you very much for your detailed answer, really appreciate that.

 

As you said I can achieve the 5ghz clock speed if I built my own custom water loop, I think I don't have sufficient funds to achieve that level of cooling at the moment.

 

Having said that, I would like to have your opinion on Corsair H60 H80 H80i H100i or H105 should i go for any one of them and which of if so or should I stick to Noctua NH-D14?.

I want to build a solid system and don't want to compromise on cooling. 

 

As I said I'm going to play withe the clock speed therefore don't want to cheap out on cooling.

 

Thank you once again for your kind efforts and time.

 

Regards 

 

Sharif

[Sky Daddy]

custom loop > air > closed loop 

[nlos]

Thank you very much for your detailed answer, really appreciate that.

 

As you said I can achieve the 5ghz clock speed if I built my own custom water loop, I think I don't have sufficient funds to achieve that level of cooling at the moment.

 

Having said that, I would like to have your opinion on Corsair H60 H80 H80i H100i or H105 should i go for any one of them and which of if so or should I stick to Noctua NH-D14?.

I want to build a solid system and don't want to compromise on cooling. 

 

As I said I'm going to play withe the clock speed therefore don't want to cheap out on cooling.

 

Thank you once again for your kind efforts and time.

 

Regards 

 

Sharif

 

Noctua is proud for being able to beat most top end closed loop watercoolers. But it cannot beat all of them. H60, H80 and H80i or even H90 aren't better than NH-D14. H100i is _arguably_ better, but it can vary either way by couple of degrees, it really depends on the rest of your case fans and where you put it. Noctua NH-D14 often runs slower than H100i and is therefore quieter, while still providing roughly the same amount of cooling power. H105 and H110 are much thicker than H100i and provide superior cooling.

 

Here are some test results that you can see to compare them:

Bit-tech, lots of coolers: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2014/02/07/corsair-h105-review/2

Here are some from Tom's Hardware:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/h100i-elc240-seidon-240m-lq320,review-32598-12.html

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/water2.0-extreme-kraken-x40-hydro-h90-elc120,review-32645-13.html

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/nepton-280l-tundra-td02-water3.0-pro-reserator3-max,review-32795-11.html

 

All of the above include NH-D14 for the comparison. For me: it isn't _all_ about the cooling power. Noise is important too and Noctua NH-D14 is quiet! You can see it from the above reviews.

 

Another thing to note, there is a saying: all liquid coolers leak, sooner or later. Some say they never leak for the lifetime of their systems, but some do. Non-liquid coolers never leak

 

One last thing: NH-D14 doesn't fit into all cases, the same is true with H100i, H105 and H110. Same is probably true with smaller Corsiar Hydro coolers, but they fit into most cases. See what fits into your system.

[nlos]

Watch out with voltages above 1.35V, I had my 4670k running at 1.4 for a few days and it degraded my CPU, even though temps never exceeded 80°C. With the overclock I'm currently running, I went for a 1:1 core/cache ratio, so I have both multipliers set to 43 and am stable. I might go ahead and try some OCing with the cache multiplier somewhere between 30-40 though, see how that works. Haven't had much time, lately

 

Your CPU clocked quite well when you kept 1:1 ratio! Even if you didn't change your current voltages, I wouldn't be surprised if you could increase your core much more when you drop the cache back to 35. Only with Haswell though! Sandybridge clocks differently! At least in my case.

 

The good thing about saving your old stable overclocks like I mentioned before: you can keep working on your new one, while knowing that you can switch back in a moment's notice. If you don't have time, you can keep using your old stable values. And when you get time, you can have a go at your previous attempts. Some motherboards let you even add your own notes, so you can keep track of what you've tried.

 

Happy clocking, if you give it a go

 

And I agree with 1.4V being high. I try to keep my voltages below that, not just because of the heat, but to get some longevity too. However I wanted to find out what does it take for my 4770k to get stable! So my final limit to try was 1.5V. I don't recommend it to anyone, but I think it was worth the try. I am comfortable leaving my CPU to less than 1.4 for every day use as long as the temperatures are under control. I can always buy a new chip if it degrades too much and it stops working. So far I've been able to get with 1.35 and 1.375 volts, many years of life (talking about i7 920 and i7 2700k here!)

[nj4ck]

Your CPU clocked quite well when you kept 1:1 ratio! Even if you didn't change your current voltages, I wouldn't be surprised if you could increase your core much more when you drop the cache back to 35. Only with Haswell though! Sandybridge clocks differently! At least in my case.

 

The good thing about saving your old stable overclocks like I mentioned before: you can keep working on your new one, while knowing that you can switch back in a moment's notice. If you don't have time, you can keep using your old stable values. And when you get time, you can have a go at your previous attempts. Some motherboards let you even add your own notes, so you can keep track of what you've tried.

 

Happy clocking, if you give it a go

 

And I agree with 1.4V being high. I try to keep my voltages below that, not just because of the heat, but to get some longevity too. However I wanted to find out what does it take for my 4770k to get stable! So my final limit to try was 1.5V. I don't recommend it to anyone, but I think it was worth the try. I am comfortable leaving my CPU to less than 1.4 for every day use as long as the temperatures are under control. I can always buy a new chip if it degrades too much and it stops working. So far I've been able to get with 1.35 and 1.375 volts, many years of life (talking about i7 920 and i7 2700k here!)

Got a stable 4.5 GHz with the ring bus at x34 and at 1.37V, had to set the RAM to 1333MHz though, haven't found a way to get it stable with the RAM at 1600MHz yet My motherboard doesn't seem to let me do anything other than use and modify XMP profiles for the RAM... And I needed above 1.4V to stay stable at 4.6 for more than a few minutes, so I guess 4.5 it is   Still not overly great, but I'm much happier than I was with 4.3GHz, thanks for the tip!

[4960X]

Noctua is proud for being able to beat most top end closed loop watercoolers. But it cannot beat all of them. H60, H80 and H80i or even H90 aren't better than NH-D14. H100i is _arguably_ better, but it can vary either way by couple of degrees, it really depends on the rest of your case fans and where you put it. Noctua NH-D14 often runs slower than H100i and is therefore quieter, while still providing roughly the same amount of cooling power. H105 and H110 are much thicker than H100i and provide superior cooling.

 

Here are some test results that you can see to compare them:

Bit-tech, lots of coolers: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2014/02/07/corsair-h105-review/2

Here are some from Tom's Hardware:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/h100i-elc240-seidon-240m-lq320,review-32598-12.html

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/water2.0-extreme-kraken-x40-hydro-h90-elc120,review-32645-13.html

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/nepton-280l-tundra-td02-water3.0-pro-reserator3-max,review-32795-11.html

 

All of the above include NH-D14 for the comparison. For me: it isn't _all_ about the cooling power. Noise is important too and Noctua NH-D14 is quiet! You can see it from the above reviews.

 

Another thing to note, there is a saying: all liquid coolers leak, sooner or later. Some say they never leak for the lifetime of their systems, but some do. Non-liquid coolers never leak

 

One last thing: NH-D14 doesn't fit into all cases, the same is true with H100i, H105 and H110. Same is probably true with smaller Corsiar Hydro coolers, but they fit into most cases. See what fits into your system.

From what I have seen, the H100i beats the NH-D14 when it's only running its fans on maximum/performance mode. Most CLC come with horrible fans and aren't for people who want quiet rigs. Also, if you Google "H100i Leak or H100i pump failure", you will get hundreds of pages of people posting pics of their H100i leaking.

[Joshua Ondangan]

if you are gonna go for the d14/15 (I love these babies) make sure your ram doesn't have those tall tits. and make sure it can fit in your case.

 

and whenever you go water there is a small chance (but it is there) for something to go wrong but like 99% of the time it won't happen unless you do something.

 

but to get out of this hassle try air coolers.

 

Custom loop>air cooler>AIO