The Situation With Multiple Orgs - And Other Things.

[LOST TALE]

What will you do with the taxation ressources?

Who will be able to see ALL your spendings. or will be able ot see what?

 

If you give me a bs politicla rehtorial reply, I will take it for its value (shit)

[thedomsaww]

What will you do with the taxation ressources?

Who will be able to see ALL your spendings. or will be able ot see what?

 

If you give me a bs politicla rehtorial reply, I will take it for its value (shit)

I don't think any of this has been worked out yet by RSI or by us.  Usually Org. taxes go towards org. beneficial things like discounted items/ ships etc.  I dont think any one but you can track your spending.  tax prolly be a flate rate every day week or month, like i said this has not been worked out. 

[Wauthar]

What will you do with the taxation ressources?

Who will be able to see ALL your spendings. or will be able ot see what?

If you give me a bs politicla rehtorial reply, I will take it for its value (shit)

The basic idea of the spenditure will be towards maintenance of the org's ships and space stations, ammunition and fuel. But as said before, it is all in the works and a grey area right now.

[rentaspoon]

What will you do with the taxation ressources?

Who will be able to see ALL your spendings. or will be able ot see what?

If you give me a bs politicla rehtorial reply, I will take it for its value (shit)

And there goes the neighbourhood...

The tax spending will be seen in free insurance and other in game stuff.

I wouldn't ask ixi to sit and explain everything otherwise how is it going to be an enjoyable game for him doing tax reports?

As for the bit I highlighted, can you keep the attacks down, I ask nicely because this is the last part of the LTT forum we can express our own opinions without getting insulted personally

[LOST TALE]

And there goes the neighbourhood...

The tax spending will be seen in free insurance and other in game stuff.

I wouldn't ask ixi to sit and explain everything otherwise how is it going to be an enjoyable game for him doing tax reports?

As for the bit I highlighted, can you keep the attacks down, I ask nicely because this is the last part of the LTT forum we can express our own opinions without getting insulted personally

That's not a personal insult. That's an informative addon. Too bad you take it the bad way.

 

It's what it's written. Maybe explain how it makes you feel insulted. If you want, I'll explain how every comment in this forum makes me feel insulted, depending on how far you stretch the logical mess.

If you read with your logic instead of your approximate ''feeling of words''

[BillChak]

If Citizens are paying a tax to be part of the Org can we, the taxed, then choose where we want to be placed within LTT, or what subsection we get to work for?

[Wauthar]

If Citizens are paying a tax to be part of the Org can we, the taxed, then choose where we want to be placed within LTT, or what subsection we get to work for?

Yes, you are free to choose what you want to do in the UOLTT. Each group will have a council of members chosen by us, the community and they will answer to the High Council.

[b45op]

If Citizens are paying a tax to be part of the Org can we, the taxed, then choose where we want to be placed within LTT, or what subsection we get to work for?

 

If you really want to be in the Sanitation section and clean ships toilets... well you can be, if you want to be a fighter pilot then well you can do that too I guess.

[LukaP]

If you really want to be in the Sanitation section and clean ships toilets... well you can be, if you want to be a fighter pilot then well you can do that too I guess.

imagine having a ship sanitation councilman

[Artofinca]

[thedomsaww]

"I am a master of the custodial arts, or a janitor if you want to be a dick"

[Ledhead900]

Tax's ... for affiliate leaders, how is that going to work if members of the affiliate group don't want to help pay the tax, this is the reason I choose to join a non profit group as far as I am aware my primary group are not charging its members a tax instead affiliates will be taxed for using our resources but the primary members will not be taxed. 

 

Starting sound more like an organization who wishes to eventually be an enterprise over just a group of friends, kind scared of now.  

 

 

"I am a master of the custodial arts, or a janitor if you want to be a dick"

 

Er.... well I think I totally miss read that.  It reads as if you are saying "I am the master of cleaning dicks" :wacko:  er.. yep I think I have a dirty sick mind and miss read that.  :unsure:

 

[rentaspoon]

Tax's ... for affiliate leaders, how is that going to work if members of the affiliate group don't want to help pay the tax, this is the reason I choose to join a non profit group as far as I am aware my primary group are not charging its members a tax instead affiliates will be taxed for using our resources but the primary members will not be taxed.

Starting sound more like an organization who wishes to eventually be an enterprise over just a group of friends, kind scared of now.

Tax is nothing new, what the org gets is returned back to the community in the form of free insurance for everyone etc

Both primary and affiliate will be charged, what's your main org?

Nothings set in stone as of yet

[thedomsaww]

Tax's ... for affiliate leaders, how is that going to work if members of the affiliate group don't want to help pay the tax, this is the reason I choose to join a non profit group as far as I am aware my primary group are not charging its members a tax instead affiliates will be taxed for using our resources but the primary members will not be taxed.

Starting sound more like an organization who wishes to eventually be an enterprise over just a group of friends, kind scared of now.

Er.... well I think I totally miss read that. It reads as if you are saying "I am the master of cleaning dicks" :wacko: er.. yep I think I have a dirty sick mind and miss read that. :unsure:

Well dude you do have a sick mind. Rent half baked.

[Ledhead900]

 what's your main org?

Oh I think you know what it is  (Xplor)

IMO insurance costs at the expense of tax does not really cover the tax outlay, because, the tax money will go back to the member in the form of the insurance so it would make no difference is the member paid his own insurance though me for example here two of my ships have LTI so insurance is not of a concern and I am not making enough profits to cover my insurance I am doing something wrong, however, I am aware tax is nothing new but I would prefer to stay as far away from the EvE online organisation model as possible. 

 

 

Well dude you do have a sick mind. Rent half baked.

Comment was a joke relax   Not sure what you are talking about when saying baked though, I am hardly arguing my point because I don't want to use my brain right now to argue it. I like Linus and all though I don't really want to affiliate I am either going to be all in one group or in none at all. I have not decided which group I would to stay with long term if any. (your speaking to somebody who never really did anything in guilds and usually ended up just playing without a guild.)

[rentaspoon]

Oh I think you know what it is (Xplor)

IMO insurance costs at the expense of tax does not really cover the tax outlay, because, the tax money will go back to the member in the form of the insurance so it would make no difference is the member paid his own insurance though me for example here two of my ships have LTI so insurance is not of a concern and I am not making enough profits to cover my insurance I am doing something wrong, however, I am aware tax is nothing new but I would prefer to stay as far away from the EvE online organisation model as possible.

As for me, I don't have LTI so it would be a help for me, on top of that it would pay for the operations that we have planned.

And if I read right if we took your idea of tax you would still be taxed AND it makes sense to tax affiliates in XPLOR as that's the majority of users.

Wonder how many XPLOR affiliates know thats the plan?

[Ledhead900]

As for me, I don't have LTI so it would be a help for me, on top of that it would pay for the operations that we have planned.

And if I read right if we took your idea of tax you would still be taxed AND it makes sense to tax affiliates in XPLOR as that's the majority of users.

Wonder how many XPLOR affiliates know thats the plan?

Yes, but I am not an affiliate group in Xplor It is my primary group. I don't think they would tax me though, considering I am offering to code a new forum template design for them and I have access to global hosting  . Speaking of hosting I was actually going to put forth the generosity of hosting for Linus if he wanted to run a community Star Citizen server in the future since at least in the states our reach is pretty much unlimited, of course it will be for FREE no strings. (no that was not intentionally bragging I'm being legit sincere about doing it.)

[rentaspoon]

Yes, but I am not an affiliate group in Xplor It is my primary group. I don't think they would tax me though, considering I am offering to code a new forum template design for them and I have access to global hosting . Speaking of hosting I was actually going to put forth the generosity of hosting for Linus if he wanted to run a community Star Citizen server in the future since at least in the states our reach is pretty much unlimited, of course it will be for FREE no strings. (no that was not intentionally bragging I'm being legit sincere about doing it.)

So basicly what your saying is you don't want to be taxed

[Ledhead900]

Essentially you are correct, though I am not saying I don't see why tax should go away I understand why it has to be there. Personally I am just trying to stay as far away from the EvE model of running things as possible that means if I was to make an org I would not tax anybody nothing they could donate to the cause but it would not be forced and I would not ask for it, instead I would value the time they decided to give to help build the community over charging them for being in it to run it. 

 

This is because I value their cooperation and loyalty by helping each other as a community to grow from accomplishing milestones together over just putting a price on entry to make up for the dead weight. I feel that members who participate are worth more than the tax income and valuable members will help sustain the community which is always better than relying on leechers who are taxed to be in the community, taxing to me just means you don't have faith in your community.  The other thing I would not have is roles at least not in a traditional sense I rather not go down the route of ruling with a mighty hammer and deciding who gets benefits and who does not with political senses because as I stated in another thread there is a reason I stopped leading any guilds. 

 

 

I only joined Explor for one reason because I read the description I liked how at least on paper they say they are chill and are not doing any of this major roles or assigned jobs thing, and just letting people contribute for the sake of wanting to contribute if this winds up not being the case or it changes over time I will go else where myself and I am not shy to say that to them. Like I said I am all in and plan to be worth keeping around and be loyal or I am going to go my own way and freelance the verse. 

 

This is all personal opinion, I can't say others have the same view it is actually more unlikely and I am probably the black sheep. Sooner or later if I let my opinion turn into a full on argument of the fact somebody is going to reply with, "You get taxed in real life, why should you not be taxed in the organization.". I would like to nail this coffin now before that happens by saying, correct but, unlike real-life where you are given a liner choice (illusion of choice) without an opt out option in a game world you are free to decide and create your own choices and opt outs I just happen choose to opt out of diplomatic design choices which emulate how a something might work in real life because I am given that option. I don't think am a terrible person for seeing this way if others disagree that is their opinion.

 

 

Up until this post, it probably looked like I was trying to create a **** storm but reality I am not after that I just question why the tax, you can run a successful community without forcefully making them contribute and in the long run the community bonds better for it. Success is not just a measurement of how much money and or assets can be generated in some cases it is but I view communities success not by numbers or physical worth but by the sheer loyalty value each individual is willing to give to the cause. Which I am sure we can all agree on. I am just stating my personal objection to this organization model as its is not really encouraging loyal members and for them to contribute willingly if it were then you would be confident that you could succeed without the forced funding and assigned roles. 

 

All said I don't wish any wrong doings to this would be organisation attempt I am just suggesting that there are alternatives which would ultimately foster a stronger community bond.

 

(I applied as an affiliate for this org but after reading the OP and seeing that I am basically worthless as a member in your groups eyes unless it is my primary group I am not so sure about my choice now. Don't argue with me on that, it clearly states pretty much this exact thing in the OP and no that does mean I am contradicting myself from what I wrote above I am more than willing to contribute just the same as I would to any other group I decided to associate with it is this groups decision to go down the path of locking out non primary members not mine, for understandable reasons no less so I hold no grudges ) 

[rentaspoon]

Essentially you are correct, though I am not saying I don't see why tax should go away I understand why it has to be there. Personally I am just trying to stay as far away from the EvE model of running things as possible that means if I was to make an org I would not tax anybody nothing they could donate to the cause but it would not be forced and I would not ask for it, instead I would value the time they decided to give to help build the community over charging them for being in it to run it.

This is because I value their cooperation and loyalty by helping each other as a community to grow from accomplishing milestones together over just putting a price on entry to make up for the dead weight. I feel that members who participate are worth more than the tax income and valuable members will help sustain the community which is always better than relying on leechers who are taxed to be in the community, taxing to me just means you don't have faith in your community. The other thing I would not have is roles at least not in a traditional sense I rather not go down the route of ruling with a mighty hammer and deciding who gets benefits and who does not with political senses because as I stated in another thread there is a reason I stopped leading any guilds.

I only joined Explor for one reason because I read the description I liked how at least on paper they say they are chill and are not doing any of this major roles or assigned jobs thing, and just letting people contribute for the sake of wanting to contribute if this winds up not being the case or it changes over time I will go else where myself and I am not shy to say that to them. Like I said I am all in and plan to be worth keeping around and be loyal or I am going to go my own way and freelance the verse.

This is all personal opinion, I can't say others have the same view it is actually more unlikely and I am probably the black sheep. Sooner or later if I let my opinion turn into a full on argument of the fact somebody is going to reply with, "You get taxed in real life, why should you not be taxed in the organization.". I would like to nail this coffin now before that happens by saying, correct but, unlike real-life where you are given a liner choice (illusion of choice) without an opt out option in a game world you are free to decide and create your own choices and opt outs I just happen choose to opt out of diplomatic design choices which emulate how a something might work in real life because I am given that option. I don't think am a terrible person for seeing this way if others disagree that is their opinion.

Up until this post, it probably looked like I was trying to create a **** storm but reality I am not after that I just question why the tax, you can run a successful community without forcefully making them contribute and in the long run the community bonds better for it. Success is not just a measurement of how much money and or assets can be generated in some cases it is but I view communities success not by numbers or physical worth but by the sheer loyalty value each individual is willing to give to the cause. Which I am sure we can all agree on. I am just stating my personal objection to this organization model as its is not really encouraging loyal members and for them to contribute willingly if it were then you would be confident that you could succeed without the forced funding and assigned roles.

All said I don't wish any wrong doings to this would be organisation attempt I am just suggesting that there are alternatives which would ultimately foster a stronger community bond.

(I applied as an affiliate for this org but after reading the OP and seeing that I am basically worthless as a member in your groups eyes unless it is my primary group I am not so sure about my choice now. Don't argue with me on that, it clearly states pretty much this exact thing in the OP and no that does mean I am contradicting myself from what I wrote above I am more than willing to contribute just the same as I would to any other group I decided to associate with it is this groups decision to go down the path of locking out non primary members not mine, for understandable reasons no less so I hold no grudges )

You can't become council or anything because that's how RSI have set it up if your an affiliate anyway and it makes sense, why would you want someone in charge who isn't fully committed.

We're a close knit community around here, if I could afford buy @LukaP another Aurora package I probably would and there was talk about pooling some cash so Linus can buy an Idris.

Your not the first as I was very much against it at first, but this Org has big goals and we need to establish ground for that we need dollar.

We have a little saying

In Ixi we trust, i think i can say @ixi_your_face is a decent guy and he has the community in mind so we trust he'll do the right thing, if he doesn't he's inbox will have a lot of hate mail.

[Wauthar]

I think the real elephant in the room here is uncertainty. As of right now, we have no idea of how this all will be when the game actually launches. We are making plans, massive operations, directional decisions, but we actually don't know how it all will turn out. This is basically why we aren't making up the Council and sub-groups now, because nothing is certain yet.

I understand that people don't want to pay taxes and that they might feel "useless" as affiliates, but our main purpose/goal is to just have fun. We intend to be a group for everyone: casuals, hardcores etc. You aren't forced in participating anything, but for those who do, there will be appropriate rewards (the above-mentioned insurance, organisational ships).

 

I hope this cleared something up, also for new members. We don't want to "scare" anyone away

[Ledhead900]

Well I am sorry if I came across as being negative this was not my intention. I am not pissing on this community either I actually think you have a good thing going. I was just attempting to validate why I said what I said.

 

 

You can't become council or anything because that's how RSI have set it up if your an affiliate anyway and it makes sense, why would you want someone in charge who isn't fully committed. We're a close knit community around here, if I could afford buy @LukaP another Aurora package I probably would and there was talk about pooling some cash so Linus can buy an Idris. Your not the first as I was very much against it at first, but this Org has big goals and we need to establish ground for that we need dollar. We have a little saying In Ixi we trust, i think i can say @ixi_your_face is a decent guy and he has the community in mind so we trust he'll do the right thing, if he doesn't he's inbox will have a lot of hate mail.

Yea I am not sure you followed my post correctly, I was never asking to be on council or have any assorted power in fact quite the opposite I believe nobody should have more power over another.  I know its your opinion to be against mine but sorry you seem okay as a bloke to talk too in fact I sent you a steam invite request, but I can't agree on your opinion for why this org needs to ask for money to survive sorry, it just does not make me feel any better knowing that. Its not my ideal community and that is not because I am a stingy person, I offered to work out something for free dedicated server hosting in future if you guys wanted a private playground because I have the means to give it to you. I'm not talking some crappy home server either I actually have access to enterprise level hosting.

 

Besides the point I simply just don't agree that a community needs to take income to survive its members should pitch in because they want too not because you make them that is what you should take away from my points. I'm not after any reward for being a member I am just after what I just said. Who knows maybe Explor rub me the wrong way and I give this group my full commitment I have to agree with these other people saying the game is not even actually out and we are making all these decisions.

 

Now you say its tight knit are you meaning that or are you saying its tight knit for a handful of special snowflakes that you admire because that sounds exactly like a furry tribe. I am not trying to be rude I am just asking a simple question because I see you are talking about LukaP and Linus but not once do you mention offering the same level of help to another struggling member, what if I needed a Freelancer and was  a full member who came on every day did cargo runs for you guys or took out my 300i to help run patrol so your cargo is safely delivered even so lets say I needed that freelancer would you offer me the same gratitude if I asked for it or would you just snub me away because I'm not a founder. These are valid questions, because if you needed my help in the verse I don't care if just an affiliate I'm going to haul ass to help you out because that's what being a good sport is all about it doesn't matter if I wanted too or not and it doesn't matter if you paid me or not. 

 

I signed that little digital bit of paper that says " I will be here if you need me" aka affiliate, somebody who choose to associate with your group and for the better half of working together for a common goal if I can offer my services I will it is that simple. I understand why you would want to try and keep things more private but common not everybody is out to leak your worst nightmares to the public why should all affiliates be treated the same way, yes I am aware that goes a little against my fair game policy but I mean in this context why would I have to suffer if I pitched in just as much or more than even some of your own members now yes you can say to me " your not a full member" and to that I can say back to you I am loyal the group who took me in first because I choose to be loyal out of respect. Is that hard to imagine?

 

I believe the reason Chris Roberts allowed you to be in more than org to begin with was because he felt you should not be limited to being part of just one community I believe that in his vision he also means that if you contribute the same to both you should be treated as a full member regardless.  

  

 

Right now I would be asking one thing from my supporters that is to stay loyal to the end. Everything else is meaningless at the moment. 

 

 

Anyway yet another essay from me, why do I keep doing this to myself.  Take care guys I will probably hit you up on chat roll soon enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wauthar]

 I offered to work out something for free dedicated server rental in future if you guys wanted a private playground because I have the means to give it to you. I'm not talking some crappy home server either I actually have access to enterprise level hosting.

 

I would suggest contacting @ixi_your_face about that.

 

And besides that, opinions are always welcome.

[LukaP]

I would suggest contacting @ixi_your_face about that.

 

And besides that, opinions are always welcome.

i cannot agree more. a healthy discussion is always the best thing. and always much better than a bunch of sheep following orders and repeating "In ixi We Trust" over and over again ^^

[Wauthar]

i cannot agree more. a healthy discussion is always the best thing. and always much better than a bunch of sheep following orders and repeating "In ixi We Trust" over and over again ^^

Shots fired ._.