Microsoft provides response to Windows 8 criticism

[TGBSeth]

"Many users have been unhappy with Windows 8, that is a fact.  But many sources have taken user criticism and paired it with Microsoft’s decision to potentially re-introduce the Start Button to the next iteration of Windows and then used that as evidence of the failure of Windows 8."

 

FULL STORY:  http://www.tgbuzz.com/2013/05/10/microsoft-provides-response-to-windows-8-criticism/

 

What do you think? Has Windows 8 been a failure, if so, why?

[Owen]

I don't think Windows 8 was a failure at all. In fact, there are several obvious advantages to using 8, such as the slight performance increase (especially on laptops), better multi-monitor support, and so on. Sure, they made it out to look like a tablet OS rather than a desktop OS, that's their bad in the marketing field. I however like the metro start menu, and I also like that they kept the traditional desktop, windows exploror, etc.

 

I actually installed a tool that brings back the start menu button, and I honestly don't even use it because the search feature in Windows 8 is just amazing.

 

So yeah, I think they could have made 8 a lot better, but it's no failure in my eyes.

[Nicktrance]

I don't think Windows 8 was a failure at all. In fact, there are several obvious advantages to using 8, such as the slight performance increase (especially on laptops), better multi-monitor support, and so on. Sure, they made it out to look like a tablet OS rather than a desktop OS, that's their bad in the marketing field. I however like the metro start menu, and I also like that they kept the traditional desktop, windows exploror, etc.

 

I actually installed a tool that brings back the start menu button, and I honestly don't even use it because the search feature in Windows 8 is just amazing.

 

So yeah, I think they could have made 8 a lot better, but it's no failure in my eyes.

 

Why are some people so amazed by windows 8 search in the modern UI? Couldn't you do that since Vista?

Also I wouldn't say a failure, but slightly quicker boot times doesn't really make it worth installing windows 8, I mean how many times do you boot your PC per day? does a few extra seconds a day matter that much? Also I and many others find the modern UI horribly unoptimized and inefficient for usage with a mouse. For desktops I would say I don't find it compelling at all.

[Owen]

Why are some people so amazed by windows 8 search in the modern UI? Couldn't you do that since Vista?

Also I wouldn't say a failure, but slightly quicker boot times doesn't really make it worth installing windows 8, I mean how many times do you boot your PC per day? does a few extra seconds a day matter that much? Also I and many others find the modern UI horribly unoptimized and inefficient for usage with a mouse. For desktops I would say I don't find it compelling at all.

I'm not saying the search is anything brand new, I'm saying it pretty much eliminates the need for the old start button anyway. I personally don't use the metro start menu that much at all, I'd have to agree that it's awkward with a mouse. But Windows 8 doesn't force you to use it by any means - on start up you boot right into the desktop, not the start menu.

 

Also, while the slightly increase in boot times is present, I was actually talking to overall performance increases (again, nothing major, but they're there nevertheless).

 

If you already have Windows 7 then you're right, Windows 8 really doesn't have a whole lot extra to offer. However, if you're getting a new OS and you don't want to get 8 just because of metro, you might want to think again.

 

P.S. Microsoft was so kind as to give 1000s of people (including me) free Windows 8 Pro keys by accident (they were supposed to be media centre keys, click here to read about it.

[Hyydrah]

Microsoft is dying. The only reason I still use Windows is because of incompatibility of applications on Chrome OS/Android. Microsoft rarely introduces open source software or even listens to feedback, and many of its products are inferior to its competition. Look at Skydrive, it doesn't allow certain file types where as DropBox and Google Drive do, and Windows Phone is extremely locked down.

[Crabtr]

I think this just goes to prove how precious people uphold their desktop environments. Look at Unix/Linux, people seriously care about their different window managers and even to an extent on Mac. When you don't give the option to roll back to an older window manager/desktop environment or use a 3rd party's you just don't change it up as drastically as they did.

[Armorhype]

I don't see Windows 8 as a complete failure. It would be a weak move by Microsoft to completely exclude modern U.I. considering all the costs that have been made to get it to the market. 

[Godlygamer23]

I don't think Windows 8 was a failure at all. In fact, there are several obvious advantages to using 8, such as the slight performance increase (especially on laptops), better multi-monitor support, and so on. Sure, they made it out to look like a tablet OS rather than a desktop OS, that's their bad in the marketing field. I however like the metro start menu, and I also like that they kept the traditional desktop, windows exploror, etc.

 

I actually installed a tool that brings back the start menu button, and I honestly don't even use it because the search feature in Windows 8 is just amazing.

 

So yeah, I think they could have made 8 a lot better, but it's no failure in my eyes.

I found that Windows 7 performed better on my 4 year old laptop than Windows 8. It doesn't matter now, because it's running Ubuntu.

[gliszt]

Why people is so attached to the start button? Ok, we have been using it since forever, but why people is so afraid of change?

My first reaction to the Metro UI was kinda like: "Oh, this is different... I wonder what can I do with it" and then started to messing around with it, to the point where is extremely useful, easy to use and access.

That said, I do not use any of the programs built in in the OS (metro apps), they just don't work in a desktop environment, but still, the main and almost only complaint about Windows 8 is the missing start button, because everyone agrees that is a good upgrade in almost every other aspect.

And yet people refuses to test it, mess around with it, or as soon as they install, they disable the Metro and began to use third party software for their beloved start button.

[ccaian]

Windows 8 is a complete failure. Stay true to the layout. If I wanted a change in design I would have moved to linux.

[IdeaStormer]

Microsoft needs to cut Windows XP support sooner than later if they want to make inroads into making people move to Windows 7 or Windows 8, heck even Windows Blue. Till they cut Windows XP support (aka security updates) they won't see much gains in Windows 8 or Blue, at this point people are downgrading new buys of Windows 8 to Windows 7 as some manufactures are not making Windows XP drives anymore or they'd downgrade for XP for their systems/boards. Apple pulls the plug on OS versions much faster and makes people upgrade and hence they make more money because of this and stop supporting older OS's and Software which gets Apple owners to upgrade not only the OS but hardware as well, hence the influx of dough at Apple.

 

Sure most people on this forum laugh at the thought of using XP, but in the business world XP is still king and till they move to a more modern Windows OS Microsoft won't be making much money or increase in real Windows OS sales.

[kirashi]

Microsoft needs to cut Windows XP support sooner than later if they want to make inroads into making people move to Windows 7 or Windows 8, heck even Windows Blue. Till they cut Windows XP support (aka security updates) they won't see much gains in Windows 8 or Blue, at this point people are downgrading new buys of Windows 8 to Windows 7 as some manufactures are not making Windows XP drives anymore or they'd downgrade for XP for their systems/boards. Apple pulls the plug on OS versions much faster and makes people upgrade and hence they make more money because of this and stop supporting older OS's and Software which gets Apple owners to upgrade not only the OS but hardware as well, hence the influx of dough at Apple.

 

Sure most people on this forum laugh at the thought of using XP, but in the business world XP is still king and till they move to a more modern Windows OS Microsoft won't be making much money or increase in real Windows OS sales.

Agreed, XP support should have been cutoff way sooner, but like you said: it's the most used in the business world because it was the first OS that arguably Microsoft managed to really polish up and make shiny. But the fact that the cutoff isn't until April/June 2014 is absurd compared to Vista and even what they've given for Windows 7. That will be 12 years for XP. I mean, I get it on one hand: people have their systems up and running the way they like, and don't want to change because it requires work/time/money to make that change. I believe however, that if people actually understood the basics of WHY OS's change so often, they would be less reluctant to actually make those changes.

[tachmonite]

I think...windows 8 is absolutely brilliant, but with a few teething (as in baby teeth growing...) issues. This is exactly what I went through with windows 7 when it replaced windows XP. Let me explain...

When transitioning from windows xp to 7, installing programs was hell, driver issues, incompatibility issues, UI issues etc. (after using xp for so long it was like learning a new OS ...sort of)

What did most of us do then, we got to search and learn new applications that would get us to do what we needed to do and by and large forgot all those annoying little problems and got to love windows 7 and new more efficient applications, some applications we just learned to do without or are native to windows 7.

 

I remember back then a buddy of mine, an I.T systems admin, hated windows 7 and the windows server version they were using back then. He was later forced to move to use windows 7 and a more updated server version after a few years, because amongst other reasons, most applications got their upgrades to work better on windows 7 and windows 7 could simply just do some things that Xp just couldn’t do.

Needless to say he now loves 7 and can’t imagine ever going back to XP. Funny thing is he now hates windows 8 with similar passion. (BTW, I am an ex-accountant, budding trader and consistent- gamer, when I have time, not a formally trained I.T geek, but a geek, relatively, all the same.)

 

The thing is hate it or love it, there is no other way apart from forward movement, we may love what we love now but I guarantee, you will love something else in the future... (yeah even your current girlfriend/wife/husband will be someone else a year from now...you will either love that new person because you have grown/changed with them or you won’t because you changed apart, or you will be with someone else. Either way, it’s all forward movement).

 

for example, I am currently having a problem using social media, I hate Facebook and recently also hated twitter...I won’t go into the why's, but now I am forced to at least use twitter (I am still obstinate about Facebook), but the thing is right now if you are not using one of these two you are probably losing some sort of edge to get things done or to know things that other people using them have.

Oops! let me not digress any further, I think if you give windows 8 a chance and use it, you will grow to love it like anything else, it’s not perfect now and may not be.....actually will definitely not be what people use in the future, but it will definitely be an iteration of the current windows 8, windows 7, XP. You won’t lose anything it will be a part of our experience, either good or bad you will learn.

Let me get to a few specific details.

 

First of all, In terms of the UI maybe I love it so because I have a 3-24inch monitor setup…it definitely makes it easier.

But that aside, I don’t get it why people complain about the absence of the start button in windows 8, think about it, in windows 7, you move your mouse pointer to the start button and click it to get to see your programs and access whatever you need. If you have several programs like I do and don’t remember which start program folder your application is in, then you have to start looking through all the tiny icons for your application or you can search. My solution when using windows 7 was mostly to pin the applications I use most often to the taskbar.

 

In windows 8, if you start up immediately in metro UI you already have access to all your programs. Better yet, if you arrange your applications so that your games are together, your utilities are together, your adobe suite, windows and pdf etc. are all grouped together then it becomes amazingly easy. Besides, when I'm on the desktop, I have all the applications I use regularly pinned on the task bar just like in windows 7.

I have to admit, I have always loved an application called fences that is use to manage my desktop. It’s perfect for when I’m on the desktop and want access to certain groups of your installed applications, even when I don’t remember the name of the application but I know what it does.

 

Currently I have 100% transitioned to windows 8, I’m even beginning to forget how windows 7 looked like. I have now used windows 8 for about 7 months from the beta stages, every single day, and I think it’s great.

That is not to say I don’t have some teething problems...for example I have a mobile scanner that worked perfectly on windows 7 but just refuses to work on windows 8, this and a few other similar software issues. (my solution...I run windows XP  on VMware within windows 8 and run my legay applications in that environment on a different monitor.) its quite easy when you get used too it, soon im sure this will get resolved, either I will get another scanner that is compatible in the future or something else will sort me out.

 

The complaint about the shutdown, sleep, restart access to me also isn’t that strong. In windows 7 you move your mouse pointer to the start button then move to the side to access the shutdown, button. In windows 8, the movement is quite similar it’s just on the opposite side of the screen, yes your mouse maybe moves a bit more but it’s not so much of a problem that I will throw the whole OS out of the window. Besides if it bothers you so much I have seen people create solutions for that…a simple desktop shortcut to log off or sleep, to get things done. Maybe someone programmer out there will make a new metro tile or something to do this (shutdown your machine) that people will love and collect $1 from 100,000 users $$$$ Kaching $$$.

 

Back to the UI a bit, I have currently been thinking about getting a Wacom bamboo tablet for my desktop the advantages are several in my head for me. I have too many paper notes right now I want to transition to OneNote or Evernote. I can use the thing to also swipe in windows 8 and use the tiles and get part of the touch experience on windows 8 and I sometimes like to doodle too.

I think I have said enough for now, I could rant on for a while about this, but for me it’s simple…right now my choices are Mac or Windows, I choose windows for now. Mostly because most of my productivity apps are only on windows and not on mac or Linux. That being my choice I want to be at the cutting edge of the environment, maybe even give some suggestions about how it will be improved for those who will follow years later because they have been forced to. And that for me means getting into the deep end of windows 8 and finding ways to make it more efficient fro me, maybe even learn some c# to make my own apps.

 

To summarise in two word "embrace change", it will only make you better, weather your choice is windows, Mac, linux or maybe even Chrome that I hear is coming.

 

On a similar note, I love nokia’s Symbian I actually still have a nokia 808 pureview with its 41Megapixel camera as my primary phone and I love it, but the apps on it are getting less and less coz its dying a slow and painful death. So im now thinking android, maybe I will get a nexus 4 or maybe the newly rumoured 41mpx nokia windows 8 and a nexus 10.

[SirReallySam]

I don't think it was a failure, I just think that it's good for touch screen not a desktop and mouse setup... That's where Classic Shell and other apps that add the start menu back come in, also Just because Microsoft is thinking they should add it back doesn't make it a failure, it's just them listening to their users :D which I am happy about!

[FireFox]

Same here, I think it is OK but it's to unfamiliar for me to part with what little money I have which is why I'm certainly sticking with Windows 7 (unless Windows 7 Mk 2 comes out) till the support runs out, I also don't think Microsoft is dying, they have had a couple of bad decisions and I'm sure they'll get a grip.

 

Also the decision to bring back the start button was from feedback if I recall (someone may need to confirm as I can't remember) so maybe they are going to listen to its customers this time since we are the ones buying their products and if we don't like them we don't buy.

[chriswills]

for me vanilla windows 8 is a fail on desktop platform, however after spending some time and screwing around with it and basicaly making windows 7.5 im very happy with it and can actually appreciate its good points like performance, boot times, better windows explorer,  task manager etc. 

[fade]

Windows 8 is not a failure.  They just made a horrible decision to not include the option for a classic start menu.  Why would they deprive users who prefer the start menu to have it and force them to use something they don't like?  It doesn't make sense.  That being said people complaining that it doesn't have enough changes to warrant an upgrade that may be true but it has way more changes than 7 had to vista.  If you're on 7 and happy with it that's fine but if you're building or buying a new PC and you don't get 8 that doesn't make sense in my eyes.

[gliszt]

Windows 8 is not a failure.  They just made a horrible decision to not include the option for a classic start menu.  Why would they deprive users who prefer the start menu to have it and force them to use something they don't like?  It doesn't make sense.  That being said people complaining that it doesn't have enough changes to warrant an upgrade that may be true but it has way more changes than 7 had to vista.  If you're on 7 and happy with it that's fine but if you're building or buying a new PC and you don't get 8 that doesn't make sense in my eyes.

It does make sense. Because if you want to move forward, if you want to make real changes to keep yourself into the game, you're going to takes risks.

I bet they could had move everything into the Metro UI entirely, but decided making the transition gradually.

They HAD to do something to modernize their OS, step by step.

[fade]

It does make sense. Because if you want to move forward, if you want to make real changes to keep yourself into the game, you're going to takes risks.

I bet they could had move everything into the Metro UI entirely, but decided making the transition gradually.

They HAD to do something to modernize their OS, step by step.

 

I agree they had to do something in regards to tablets and phones but a desktop is still a desktop.  There is no reason for it to be black or white.  They could have had both options available.

[Joshua]

I wouldn't go as far as to call it a failure, because it's not a failure by any stretch of the imagination. It's just change, and by and large, consumers don't like change. I for one, have installed StartIsBack and I am fine with it. One weird thing I've noticed about Windows 8 is that some settings and features have been turned into the ugly metro looking windows, that are only accessible by moving cursor/tapping in the top left corner and some settings are kept on the taskbar and in the same style as windows 7. I think if they want to change windows, don't keep the new stuff with classic windows stuff, it just makes the OS seem more rushed.

[stijnverwaest]

Microsoft is dying. The only reason I still use Windows is because of incompatibility of applications on Chrome OS/Android. Microsoft rarely introduces open source software or even listens to feedback, and many of its products are inferior to its competition. Look at Skydrive, it doesn't allow certain file types where as DropBox and Google Drive do, and Windows Phone is extremely locked down.

Microsoft isn't dying perhaps windows is i agree whit everything you say except that they are dying they get 10 dollar  for 50% of the android devices being sold so that on its own is a lot .

I think we have to live whit them and hope they still can make something good .

[Hyydrah]

Microsoft isn't dying perhaps windows is i agree whit everything you say except that they are dying they get 10 dollar  for 50% of the android devices being sold so that on its own is a lot .

I think we have to live whit them and hope they still can make something good .

Sure they're making a bit, but is it really going to keep them afloat?

[stijnverwaest]

Sure they're making a bit, but is it really going to keep them afloat?

no not on its own but they will sell allot of other stuff so 

[Hyydrah]

no not on its own but they will sell allot of other stuff so 

Are they in a few years, at this rate?

[Nademagnet]

Not a failure, just a misstep. I am looking forward to the day when all my programs on my desktop are compatible with all my other devices and work seamlessly, and Windows 8 is M$'s first REAL implementation of this strategy. I have not made the switch to Windows 8 yet since Windows 7 is far more mature, but i can see my next PC build being an 8 machine. While being a WP7 user, the transition to Windows 8 may not be as challenging for me as I have some experience with a MUI device, but if I had a choice I would rather keep the classic Desktop layout as its more keyboard/mouse optimized.