Soundcard help

[NannerBeans]

by what

 

Shure 440 with 840 pads, Sony MDR 7506 gets very close at like half the price, Beyerdynamic DT770, AKG K612, CHC Silverados since they drop to $80 and $100 frequently, and probably others that I cannot think of right now. 

[Poohy14]

an external dac/amp will perform better most of the time, less noise it can pick up from the case, and also 10 ohm output impedance that every sound card has isnt great.

 

Just so you know I wasn't referring to just sound cards and plus a sound card is a dac (digital to analog converter) but I referring to external and internal dedicated parts compared to motherboards. If you actually read it right you would have got that. But higher impedance is better quality until a certain point. Keep in mind that impedance is like resistance on a coil which can produce higher or lower voltage.

 

Edit: also dac/amps are also onboard too but when you get down to the electronic parts of everything you learn how they work and plus I'm not saying all onboard is bad just that higher quality parts are on dedicated equipment in a lot of cases. Hint that dedicated parts have more capacitors which blocks DC and provides an important function like filtering which many manufactures for onboard only put a few and dedicated parts put more into filtering and provides a better analog. Also they use a process like the schmitt trigger to help with a lot of feedback for the signal.

[blutch]

Shure 440 with 840 pads, Sony MDR 7506 gets very close at like half the price, Beyerdynamic DT770, AKG K612, CHC Silverados since they drop to $80 and $100 frequently, and probably others that I cannot think of right now. 

i dont think the 440 and 7506 are v shaped which the m50's are, so they dont really offer the same if your looking for bass.

 

The dt770 is really dull sounding imho,

 

other i have not heard

 

Things i would say are a better offer than what you named: creative aurivana live and Superlux hd668b. but those are semi open

 

edit: hm5 may also be a good choice.

[blutch]

Just so you know I wasn't referring to just sound cards and plus a sound card is a dac (digital to analog converter) but I referring to external and internal dedicated parts compared to motherboards. If you actually read it right you would have got that. But higher impedance is better quality until a certain point. Keep in mind that impedance is like resistance on a coil which can produce higher or lower voltage.

 

Edit: also dac/amps are also onboard too but when you get down to the electronic parts of everything you learn how they work and plus I'm not saying all onboard is bad just that higher quality parts are on dedicated equipment in a lot of cases. Hint that dedicated parts have more capacitors which blocks DC and provides an important function like filtering which many manufactures for onboard only put a few and dedicated parts put more into filtering and provides a better analog. Also they use a process like the schmitt trigger to help with a lot of feedback for the signal.

one could argue that a motherboard is a didicated part (sound chip) and one could also argue that the difference between those ''higher quality components'' are inaudible to the human ear.

[NannerBeans]

Just so you know I wasn't referring to just sound cards and plus a sound card is a dac (digital to analog converter) but I referring to external and internal dedicated parts compared to motherboards. If you actually read it right you would have got that. But higher impedance is better quality until a certain point. Keep in mind that impedance is like resistance on a coil which can produce higher or lower voltage.

 

Edit: also dac/amps are also onboard too but when you get down to the electronic parts of everything you learn how they work and plus I'm not saying all onboard is bad just that higher quality parts are on dedicated equipment in a lot of cases. Hint that dedicated parts have more capacitors which blocks DC and provides an important function like filtering which many manufactures for onboard only put a few and dedicated parts put more into filtering and provides a better analog. Also they use a process like the schmitt trigger to help with a lot of feedback for the signal.

You specifically mention sound cards and that was it. Also higher OUTPUT impedance is bad because of the dampening factor. You are thinking about input resistance. 

[Poohy14]

one could argue that a motherboard is a didicated part (sound chip) and one could also argue that the difference between those ''higher quality components'' are inaudible to the human ear.

 

First, a motherboard is a dedicated part. Second, a internal and external DAC is a dedicated part. Third, I never said anything about inaudible to the human ear its a factor of the electronic level for what has been proven to be better that higher quality parts are actually better than cheaper parts. You are just saying things that I never even came close to saying. This is just proving that you don't know what you are talking about and trying to help someone when you don't even know what you are talking about since you can't read everything that I posted right and getting upset about it. So, onboard is good enough for gaming. Solved. a internal and external DAC (not onboard) is better due the fact there is more room to put more components on to make a better product for converting digital to analog since a motherboard doesn't have much room to put better and more components on it thus making those type of things better than onboard. Not in all cases, since a lot of onboard manufactures focus more on audio now and uses a simple technique like the Op Amp which is very good for gain and amplifiers in a small package but not as good as a larger product that has more room to make something

[NannerBeans]

i dont think the 440 and 7506 are v shaped which the m50's are, so they dont really offer the same if your looking for bass.

 

The dt770 is really dull sounding imho,

 

other i have not heard

 

Things i would say are a better offer than what you named: creative aurivana live and Superlux hd668b. but those are semi open

 

edit: hm5 may also be a good choice.

M50 is not a V man

 

http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID%5B0%5D=4313&graphID%5B1%5D=&graphID%5B2%5D=&graphID%5B3%5D=&scale=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph

[Poohy14]

You specifically mention sound cards and that was it. Also higher OUTPUT impedance is bad because of the dampening factor. You are thinking about input resistance. 

 

yes sorry my bad I was since I just doing homework about Transformers. Sorry about that you are right.

[NannerBeans]

First, a motherboard is a dedicated part. Second, a internal and external DAC is a dedicated part. Third, I never said anything about inaudible to the human ear its a factor of the electronic level for what has been proven to be better that higher quality parts are actually better than cheaper parts. You are just saying things that I never even came close to saying. This is just proving that you don't know what you are talking about and trying to help someone when you don't even know what you are talking about since you can't read everything that I posted right and getting upset about it. So, onboard is good enough for gaming. Solved. a internal and external DAC (not onboard) is better due the fact there is more room to put more components on to make a better product for converting digital to analog since a motherboard doesn't have much room to put better and more components on it thus making those type of things better than onboard. Not in all cases, since a lot of onboard manufactures focus more on audio now and uses a simple technique like the Op Amp which is very good for gain and amplifiers in a small package but not as good as a larger product that has more room to make something

 

Since audio is completely based on what you hear, being better on a component level but not being noticeable audibly does nothing and should not be considered an improvement since is actually does nothing. You would be paying more for something that makes no difference therefore it is not better on a consumer level. Also, onboard audio is not considered dedicated. Dedicated means it is made for 1 specific purpose and a motherboard is not. Higher quality parts don't mean anything unless the implication is good. 

 

Edit: That probably my last post on the topic. Don't like talking about this anyway since it is much more complicated than I know about. There are others on the forum that know way more than I do. 

[blutch]

M50 is not a V man

 

http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID%5B0%5D=4313&graphID%5B1%5D=&graphID%5B2%5D=&graphID%5B3%5D=&scale=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph

they are a bit uneven yes, but they call attention to the treble and bass, while the midrange is a bit behind, id call that vshaped sounding.

[NannerBeans]

they are a bit uneven yes, but they call attention to the treble and bass, while the midrange is a bit behind, id call that vshaped sounding.

Uh what? The graph says high bass, mid mids, and low highs. That's a straight line man. 

 

Edit: If you want good bass V-Moda Crossfade LPs are actually pretty good considering you can get them for like $60 used. Their highs are not the best but still very good for their price. 

[blutch]

Uh what? The graph says high bass, mid mids, and low highs. That's a straight line man. 

to my ears the highs were quite sparkly

[NannerBeans]

to my ears the highs were quite sparkly

 

They are still not very v-shaped though. Although frequency graphs don't always show the full picture of what they sound like. I've listened to a lot of headphones and the M50 is just meh. I got them for around $100 so that is what I would say they are worth. Any more and I would rather get something else. 

[Poohy14]

Since audio is completely based on what you hear, being better on a component level but not being noticeable audibly does nothing and should not be considered an improvement since is actually does nothing. You would be paying more for something that makes no difference therefore it is not better on a consumer level. Also, onboard audio is not considered dedicated. Dedicated means it is made for 1 specific purpose and a motherboard is not. Higher quality parts don't mean anything unless the implication is good. 

 

Edit: That probably my last post on the topic. Don't like talking about this anyway since it is much more complicated than I know about. There are others on the forum that know way more than I do. 

 

Like I said, I wasnt talking about audible since everyone's hearing is a little different and I cannot really hear in my right ear. I was talking about more on the component  level for what is better. Just so you know since I keep saying that. and it was a argument that was going back and fourth when that didn't need too but I was referring to the component design and not hearing.

[NannerBeans]

Like I said, I wasnt talking about audible since everyone's hearing is a little different and I cannot really hear in my right ear. I was talking about more on the component  level for what is better. Just so you know since I keep saying that. and it was a argument that was going back and fourth when that didn't need too but I was referring to the component design and not hearing.

Fair enough but the design on sound cards is usually not good. The design on external solutions are usually much better at the same price. For sound cards, it's basically all marketing. The companies that make sound cards spend a lot on marketing to convince you to buy it and then raise the price of them for it. 

[blutch]

They are still not very v-shaped though. Although frequency graphs don't always show the full picture of what they sound like. I've listened to a lot of headphones and the M50 is just meh. I got them for around $100 so that is what I would say they are worth. Any more and I would rather get something else. 

for the time i had em, i really like them, and i gave some alternatives for them aswell

[Poohy14]

Fair enough but the design on sound cards is usually not good. The design on external solutions are usually much better at the same price. For sound cards, it's basically all marketing. The companies that make sound cards spend a lot on marketing to convince you to buy it and then raise the price of them for it. 

 

 yes i do agree with that and also when you get enough parts on the internal DAC, you pick up sounds from inside your computer. So, I don't really prefer them, Now external DAC are still the same components just outside to where it is a lot hard to hear those sounds from inside your computer case. External DACs FTW! Also I don't know that much about headphone so I never really talked about them. Just so you know. I prefer speakers.

[NannerBeans]

 yes i do agree with that and also when you get enough parts on the internal DAC, you pick up sounds from inside your computer. So, I don't really prefer them, Now external DAC are still the same components just outside to where it is a lot hard to hear those sounds from inside your computer case. External DACs FTW! Also I don't know that much about headphone so I never really talked about them. Just so you know. I prefer speakers.

Speakers are much more expensive unfortunately. I finally splurged on some nice ones but do not use them too often. I have a lot of headphones I'm trying to sell off though.

[Poohy14]

Speakers are much more expensive unfortunately. I finally splurged on some nice ones but do not use them too often. I have a lot of headphones I'm trying to sell off though.

 

yeah I have Boston home theater speakers which is still better than any speaker I have heard till this day and I don't like to wear headphones that much because my Logitech G430 isn't comfortable at all, like it irritates my ears and hurts them so yeaaahhh. But anyways lets not talk about it on this part of the Forum so you can message me if you want to so we are not confusing the guy that needs help

[Lauen]

by what

Shure SRH440 with 840 pads literally wreck them. for the marketed purpose, studio and monitoring, the 440's are better with more balanced sound, more detail, and at least for me, actually usable for more than 20 minutes at a time, M50's were that uncomfortable for me. Also, a replaceable cable on the 440's is good vs the old M50. the new M50X literally only brings a replaceable cable to the table.

[blutch]

Shure SRH440 with 840 pads literally wreck them. for the marketed purpose, studio and monitoring, the 440's are better with more balanced sound, more detail, and at least for me, actually usable for more than 20 minutes at a time, M50's were that uncomfortable for me. Also, a replaceable cable on the 440's is good vs the old M50. the new M50X literally only brings a replaceable cable to the table.

i already stated some things i consider to be technically better myself:''

Things i would say are a better offer than what you named: creative aurivana live and Superlux hd668b. but those are semi open

 

edit: hm5 may also be a good choice.

''

 

But the m50s have  a special place in my heart, they were my first pair of over 100 dollar headphones, and honestly, i dont think they sound bad in the slightest, they have a nice sig, if a bit uneven

[Lauen]

Just so you know I wasn't referring to just sound cards and plus a sound card is a dac (digital to analog converter) but I referring to external and internal dedicated parts compared to motherboards. If you actually read it right you would have got that. But higher impedance is better quality until a certain point. Keep in mind that impedance is like resistance on a coil which can produce higher or lower voltage.

 

Edit: also dac/amps are also onboard too but when you get down to the electronic parts of everything you learn how they work and plus I'm not saying all onboard is bad just that higher quality parts are on dedicated equipment in a lot of cases. Hint that dedicated parts have more capacitors which blocks DC and provides an important function like filtering which many manufactures for onboard only put a few and dedicated parts put more into filtering and provides a better analog. Also they use a process like the schmitt trigger to help with a lot of feedback for the signal.

Higher quality = better, in many occasions. But when you literally can't hear a difference between two things at different price point, you may as well go for the cheaper one in this circumstance. also, why did you "edit" without actually editing your post?

 

i already stated some things i consider to be technically better myself:''

Things i would say are a better offer than what you named: creative aurivana live and Superlux hd668b. but those are semi open

 

edit: hm5 may also be a good choice.

''

 

But the m50s have  a special place in my heart, they were my first pair of over 100 dollar headphones, and honestly, i dont think they sound bad in the slightest, they have a nice sig, if a bit uneven

If you get your M50s (or M50x) for 100$ or less, then they're okay, but over that there are headphones that do what you want better, which makes the M50 a useless thing. M50's were my first high quality headphones too, but since they were ludacrisly uncomfortable, I got SRH440's with 840 pads and haven't looked back since, they do their intended purpose a birrion times better.

 

First, a motherboard is a dedicated part. Second, a internal and external DAC is a dedicated part. Third, I never said anything about inaudible to the human ear its a factor of the electronic level for what has been proven to be better that higher quality parts are actually better than cheaper parts. You are just saying things that I never even came close to saying. This is just proving that you don't know what you are talking about and trying to help someone when you don't even know what you are talking about since you can't read everything that I posted right and getting upset about it. So, onboard is good enough for gaming. Solved. a internal and external DAC (not onboard) is better due the fact there is more room to put more components on to make a better product for converting digital to analog since a motherboard doesn't have much room to put better and more components on it thus making those type of things better than onboard. Not in all cases, since a lot of onboard manufactures focus more on audio now and uses a simple technique like the Op Amp which is very good for gain and amplifiers in a small package but not as good as a larger product that has more room to make something

 

Just saying, I have a Xonar D2X, which are one of those soundcards you seem to be praising, and I don't even use it for other things than my speakers, for the following reasons: it has a high output impedance (about 10) which could lead to it altering the way my headphones sound. It sounds IDENTICAL to my onboard Realtek ALC892, which by your terms is inferior. plus my onboard has jack sensing, which is handy at times.