Looking for advice on HD 600/T50RP + ODAC for gaming setup.

[HFPhonezy88]

Hey guys - I've read these forums a few times now, and the advice given has expanded my knowledge on audio much more than what it used to be, so I am thankful for that. I recently created a thread on head-fi, asking about comfort-comparisons with HD 600's vs mayflowers T50RP version 3's; upon the creation of the thread, I was told(in a PM from a moderator) links to mayflowers website and discussions about it are not allowed, as the user is banned. Well - that was an interesting welcome, as I didn't know such a feud existed. He said he edited my thread for me, and removed all mentions of mayflower. Well, I then had to do some research into what this was about, as I didn't want to be buying modded T50RP's off some guy who's banned over there. It seemed obvious if he was banned over there he was probably some scum, shooting up drugs on the side while bad-mouthing their site or something, as he made ODAC's in his garage full of needles.

 

Well - upon research, I realized none of that was true, and that it seemed some form of totalitarian leadership might be running what is "acceptable" over there. I was pretty upset after it seemed what I wanted to ask in a thread, couldn't even be asked fully, and it has now left a bad taste in my mouth. As someone who's only read over there, it seemed like a credible place to learn more about the audio world; truthfully though, the short time I've read here has been more informative and it seems like I can actually ask about this mysteriously taboo name, Mayflower.

 

I'm going to post what I originally wanted to ask over there in this thread, and I'm appreciative for any/all advice. It seems Mayflower is fast to speak up about his product here if he genuinely feels it's in the best interest to pick it up, and if another option is stronger, he seems honest about suggesting something that isn't his. I think that is a strong perspective to bring to the table, as I'm just looking for honesty to maximize the potential with the money I was comfortable spending. I'm not sure if maybe I could do the set of cans + only an o2 DAC, to help with costs, but I'll leave that up to those more knowledgable, as it seems a general consensus to always run DAC with Amp. Thanks again for any help!

 

I am new here, so hopefully that prefaces things in a fair way I'm looking for advice on how to go about maximizing my setup, and also on help in regards to some questions I may have.

Advice I'm looking for: HD 600 vs modded T50RP (I've heard there are many variations of the mods, I would be looking at one's already modded, such as Mayflower's version 3, or other recommendations.) Out of the HD 600's or T50RP's, which is putting out better sound-quality/comfort, and are the other big-names who are modding T50RP's offering better/less expensive versions or is the Mayflower's the benchmark/best?

What I specifically want from a set of cans: Comfort is absolutely priority #1. I have these 2 as my options because I've done a lot of research and both of these seem to be very high on the list. I've read the comparisons on HD 650's also, and it seemed like the HD 600's leave slightly less fatigue which sounded better for me since I'm being anal about the comfort and clamping pressure. I've recently tried sennheiser HD 380 pro's and v-moda LP2's, both of which were terrible in comfort + clamping pressure and had to return both. I want these to be able to be worn for 8 hours at a time.

What I will be using them for: PC gaming 75%, and music from PC 25%. These will be used with the motherboard's on-board sound until this thread hopefully can bring the answers I'm looking for.

Budget (can stretch it a little if mandatory): ~$400 total (headphone + DAC/Amp).

Pre-Final thought: I've heard DAC/Amp combo's should be under-valued in comparison to just simply getting a very solid set of headphones (for me, HD 600's would be very solid, or the modded T50RP as I heard they're orthodynamic which seems to put them into a unique league of their own, which is why I'm curious how these 2 compare vs each-other given a relatively close price). I'm using a very old-school pair of sony's atm, although before these I had an equally ancient pair of sennheisers.

Final thought: I'm wondering if the entire budget should be put into the headphones, or if splitting it up so a DAC/amp can be bought too is best; I've heard mixed opinions. My only concern right now is the on-board sound of the motherboard that I'll be running them into (this is why I'd assume I need a DAC/Amp combo). With that said, let me reference the mayflowers that are modded:

https://www.mayflowerelectronics.com/shop/headphones/fostex-t50rp-version-3/

These are $240, and I've heard they have hands-down the best DAC/Amp combo for its price, which is also $240 ($480 total). If I went with the HD 600's, it might be around $550 total or so. I CAN go over the budget of $400 if I have to, but realistically I want it near the $400 unless it has to be done to get around the internal DAC on the mobo(I'd rather do it justice the first time through so it is a solid audio setup like HD 600 + ODAC/Amp if that is what it would take); I know many of you have a wealth of knowledge, and I'd appreciate anyone reading who feels they can add any personal perspective to not shy away, as the more communication the better depth we can bring. Thanks for everyone who can offer their intellect to help - I greatly appreciate it!
 

[NannerBeans]

-snip-

 

Hi! Welcome to LTT. First of all, what motherboard do you have? If it's a relatively new one (within the last 3 or so years) you will not need a dac/amp unless it's for orthos. Even with orthos, you do not need the dac. That could bring your price down to about $400 if you go with the Fostex V3 and an O2 which is something I myself went for (but I haven't gotten them yet). I do not think the Sennheisers will require an amp even though they are high impedance. In any case, you would always get the headphones first, try it with your onboard, and then decide if you want an amp. Usually spending more money on headphones is the better thing to do but the exceptions is with headphones that are very hard to drive. Those are going to need an amp. A DAC doesn't influence the sound quality much. Logan's review on the different versions of the Fostex headphones is really good. It is the one on the product page of the headphones over at Mayflower's website. He says that the pads with the v3 are one of the most comfortable that he has seen. One thing though, if you are looking for comfort, don't go with the V1 because the headband doesn't have cushioning. Alternatively, you can always buy it yourself but it costs around $20 with shipping over at B&H I believe. 

 

Edit: Here are some reviews by members of this forum on the V3 Fostex.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/67614-fostex-t50rp-modded-mayflowerelectronics-version-3/

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/69410-the-fostex-t50rp-modified-by-mayflower/

Unfortunately, there is not a comprehensive one on the HD600 but from what I understand, the V3 is more "fun" than the HD600 and the HD600 is more analytical. 

 

Edit2: One advantage of the ODAC and O2 combo though is that there is 1 less wire in the front. And I highly encourage you to go for the rear power unless you need RCA which is what I went for. 

[ShearMe]

Welcome!

For reference I own HD 650's, and have owned both an O2 and V3 from Mayflower. I find the O2 unnecessary for both headphones. There's this stigma that floats around on Head-Fi that adding an amp somehow magically improves your audio experience no matter what headphone you're using. Gotta call BS to that. Just to make sure you're aware though, you do need an amp after any DAC (though some "DAC" units are actually a DAC + amp).

 

As for T50RP-V3 vs HD600, that's a tough call. The pads on the Sennheisers will need to be broken in, but once they do they'll fit your head like a glove. The pads on the V3 are very squishy ("like a boobie on your head" according to Mayflower himself!) and make for a very comfortable fit. Clamp-wise, I'd probably rate the V3 better, especially if you've got a bigger head, but they are fairly more heavy due to the orthodynamic drivers and modeling clay, and due to the closed back they don't breathe as well as the Senn's.

[Shaoty]

The pads on my senns fit like a glove out of the box, once I properly adjusted the headband , maybe that's just me though.

[HFPhonezy88]

I didn't expect such prompt replies, thank you to both

 

Broke -- it would be for a newer one, so maybe that means I can put the whole budget into the headphones themselves. I read those 2 reviews also; I first heard of the ODAC on teksyndicate and the T50RP v3 on bernacules nerdgasm, so this is even how I came by the T50RP's as a top-contender for comfort. When he said they're more comfy than his HD 800's, it made me put them instantly up there on my list, as my experiences with the HD 380 pro's/LP2's were very negative for comfort.

 

And to Mr.Sheep -- your analogies made me smile for sure. I was under the impression that the 600's might need driven harder as they're 300 ohms? I could be wrong, but that number is sticking for some reason. If you think neither needs driven by an amp or even would need the ODAC, again, maybe I can just budget it all into the headphones. Are there any comfort differences between 600 vs 650 or is it all in the drivers? Strange thing is, new 650's might MRP at $100 more, but used versions of both seem to be at the same price-range. I just remember the discussions on 650 vs 600 were never-ending, and what I ultimately decided was when someone said the 600's were less fatiguing over longer periods of use. When I saw the T50RP v3's, I'm surprised you rated them better clamping-wise; it appeared like when they lay idle, there is maybe an inch of space between them. With HD 600's, it appears they have maybe 3-4 inches of space between them when laying on a surface idle. I thought for sure HD 600 would beat those out on clamping, and I heard they were lighter also, which is what was pushing me toward them so much. On the counter-end, when bernacules said they're better comfort than his HD 800's, that carries weight too. Maybe other's will have some opinions, too.

 

Thanks for the replies!

[Shaoty]

I've had pain previously with different headphones, especially with pleather. No idea about anything on the T50RP's by the way. However the 650's and 600's use the exact same pads I beleive, there comfort should be pretty similar, not sure on the 650's clamp force. 

 

Also for reference, when I use my hd600's with my mobo, I don't take it louder than 20% volume. The 650's are even more sensitive I believe.

 

Just pick which sound signature you want most, they'll both be comfortable, (still I can't speak for the T50RP'S). Just leaving my 2 cents I guess.

[ShearMe]

And to Mr.Sheep -- your analogies made me smile for sure. I was under the impression that the 600's might need driven harder as they're 300 ohms? I could be wrong, but that number is sticking for some reason. If you think neither needs driven by an amp or even would need the ODAC, again, maybe I can just budget it all into the headphones. Are there any comfort differences between 600 vs 650 or is it all in the drivers? Strange thing is, new 650's might MRP at $100 more, but used versions of both seem to be at the same price-range. I just remember the discussions on 650 vs 600 were never-ending, and what I ultimately decided was when someone said the 600's were less fatiguing over longer periods of use. When I saw the T50RP v3's, I'm surprised you rated them better clamping-wise; it appeared like when they lay idle, there is maybe an inch of space between them. With HD 600's, it appears they have maybe 3-4 inches of space between them when laying on a surface idle. I thought for sure HD 600 would beat those out on clamping, and I heard they were lighter also, which is what was pushing me toward them so much. On the counter-end, when bernacules said they're better comfort than his HD 800's, that carries weight too. Maybe other's will have some opinions, too.

 

Compared to 600's, 650's have slightly more bass and slightly less highs. I suspect most of the differences are in the materials used in the enclosures rather than the drivers themselves, but we'll never really know. Some people prefer the flatter sound of the 600's to the 650's, so they do usually sell for the same in the used market.

 

On comfort, the only difference is the padding on the headband. 600's have multiple little foam packets, and 650's have a solid piece with a grove cut out of the center for you sagittal suture. Matter of nit-picky opinion on which is most comfortable. Sennheiser's do naturally have a wider gap between the earcups, but the headband doesn't flex as easily as other headphones. The T50RP's headband is a solid strip of rubber, and it is very flexible, so the clamp is weaker if your head is bigger. Was about the same for my head between the two.

 

Per the "300 ohm" impedance question - it's not as simple as looking at that, unfortunately. Speaker/headphone impedance is a curve that varies with frequency, so there's no set value that fits nicely on a spec list. In addition, the sensitivity is another factor which plays a big role as to how loud they get. Higher impedance limits the wattage that a headphone can use from an amp, but sensitivity determines what it does with those watts. To make matters even worse, manufactures can measure all these things however they want and pick values for spec sheets willy-nilly! Between the big audio brands, they all take sensitivity measurements differently and list them in spec sheets with different units. My latest go-to site for scientific measurements of headphone sensitivity is InnerFidelity's data sheets because he measures every headphone the same (sadly no V3 as of now).

[NannerBeans]

I find the O2 unnecessary for both headphones. 

 

I was told by helping that his Fiio E10 was reaching the limits of what is needed for the Fostex. How loud does it get with your onboard?

[ShearMe]

I was told by helping that his Fiio E10 was reaching the limits of what is needed for the Fostex. How loud does it get with your onboard?

 

Plenty loud? I don't take scientific measurements or anything. I tend to listen to music using only the first half of the volume dial, but I blast things every now and then for testing. 

 

helping has what used to be my pair so just listen to whatever he says. Even if it contradicts me, he's generally spot on. 

[NannerBeans]

Plenty loud? I don't take scientific measurements or anything. I tend to listen to music using only the first half of the volume dial, but I blast things every now and then for testing. 

 

helping has what used to be my pair so just listen to whatever he says. Even if it contradicts me, he's generally spot on. 

I'll just have to wait until I get mine haha. I wanted to save money and buy a used pair but I caved and Mayflower gave me a discount on the shipping since he's shipping it back to me with my o2. 

[TRIGUND]

Help please I really want to buy the Fostex T50RP-V1's but does anyone know if I would be able to put the v3 headphone pads on the v1's with no trouble or do the v3 pads only fit on the v3's ? 

[BaconComputing]

Am I the only one that skipped all of the many walls of texts?

[Valhallatier]

Pc gaming 75%, music 25%?
comfort number 1 priority?

then the Sennheiser HD598 is what you're looking for.

imo never seen the fostex T50 rp myself, but already with the HD600/650. To my surprise, they're quite a 'small' headphone. full of clamping force, and comfort is just not what they're meant to be.
and the soundstage is actually quite small unless you amped them right.
for the HD598, its actually the most comfy headphones... EVER, (i've already put a HD800 on my head btw). directional sound is REALLY good, very balanced sound like HD600, just less musicality.
you don't even need an amp or DAC to drive them.

also when visitting head fi, just take it with a grain of salt...

[SSL]

Am I the only one that skipped all of the many walls of texts?

 

Nope! One reason I'm a blunt A-hole, I know people prefer brevity.

[ShearMe]

 

 

Help please I really want to buy the Fostex T50RP-V1's but does anyone know if I would be able to put the v3 headphone pads on the v1's with no trouble or do the v3 pads only fit on the v3's ? 

 

The pads on the V3 are glued on. Personally, I'd email Mayflower and see what he'd charge you to do it in the shop before shipping to you.

[NannerBeans]

Help please I really want to buy the Fostex T50RP-V1's but does anyone know if I would be able to put the v3 headphone pads on the v1's with no trouble or do the v3 pads only fit on the v3's ? 

Message Mayflower on the forums here or email him. He should be able to do that for you no problem for like $10 more or something. Although just so you know putting on the different pad will change the sound. I don't know how though. Again ask Mayflower. 

[MayflowerElectronics]

I must have never seen this thread it's kind of funny that headfi is such a piece of shit.

Anyway we can swap out the pads just shoot us an email.

[TRIGUND]

thx for those who replied =) i will be getting the head phones next month do to my truck radiator breaking =(

[xboxxx]

guys i am also considering to buy Fostex T50RP Mk. III – Version 1 with Desktop O2/ODAC Rev B

https://www.mayflowerelectronics.com/shop/headphones/fostex-t50rp-mk-iii-version-1/

https://www.mayflowerelectronics.com/shop/digital-to-analog-converters/refurbished-desktop-o2odac-rev-b-combos/

 

Guys all i Need to know is if it is good for gaming. my complete focus is GAMING. NO music , no rap no hip hop whatsoever . All i do is gaming. My focus is footsteps , directions. I hope you all got the point im trying to make. 

 

So is this a good idea to buy or not . Please advise.