Blocking YouTube, here is why.

[oldSock]

Hi everyone,

For those of you that enjoy YouTube and the content creators as a form of entertainment 

may want to click away from this post. Please be warned.

 

Right with that out of the way I will continue.

 

For anyone that reads my stuff, you will know that "for now" i like most people use the second hand market for computer parts.

 

Now normally most parts are good and yes you do get the scams, and broken stuff. This is the reality of the second hand market.

 

However a while ago i ran into a strange problem with a 1070 and it turned out that it wasn't a user error it was an actual problem

with some of the cards. Yes the high fan spin and black screen situation. Now i have tried everything including turning it down to

its minimum performance i even went as far as putting on a custom Firmware but this card was a total loss. yes did try it on new 

1000 watt "new brand name" PSU.

 

Now at first i blamed myself because yes there was some news/post about it but honestly i had to dig a little to get to the truth.

So i binned it, Took the 1070 and turned it into target practice.

 

On my way home i tried to remember if i saw anyone doing long term follow-ups on these cards after the release date?

 

Well here is the problem. Firstly i didn't recall anyone doing a follow up. Now it is not to say that no one did a follow up

it is just i can't recall seeing a follow up on these GPU's

 

It is always Just a flashy bench-marking experience with some meaningless performance overview. After that they move on to

the next shiny thing.

 

Then i thought to myself, "Why am i watching this review?" What meaningful information did i get from it?

 

See many Tech YouTube channels say "hold off on buying it until we reviewed it" Why? What real world test do you actually

do? Do you run these components longer then a few days? Few months? Do you research the comeback trends on these

products? Do you outline any problems normal users will have with this product? Truth is some do but many just don't.

 

See these Tech YouTube channels will install it into a system that does NOT reflect the real world to begin with. So yes the

product gets the best possible chance to shine BUT chances are many users are thinking "i need a new card i am not going

to buy a new system" and then they don't get the same performance because their systems might be old or not supporting

some functions. Honestly that is fine, as long as the thing works. 

 

So in short, reviews is moot, it is just a flashy advertisement and that is all it is. They say honest review and honest opinion

and YES they are honest about it. But the fail point is not their honesty, it is the real world implementation and how this card

will preform over time.

 

Now i hear you "OLD SOCK YOU STUPID IDIOT THEY CANNOT TEST EVERY SYSTEM"

 

Well why can't they do some tests? I have seen enough videos where they take "oldish" but otherwise perfectly good tech and just

destroy it for  the sake of views. Truth is some YouTube channels have enough old stock to test a few scenarios. So yes they

can actually do tests and some channels with enough staff they can do a followup and outline that "this piece of tech had the

following problems" For them it is just a phone call because they have the contacts. In short they have contact persons and

they have access to old stock.

 

So in conclusion, i feel a simple followup video every few months would have saved a lot of second hand users a lot of 

trouble. Now to be CLEAR I BLAME MYSELF FOR BUYING IT and BUYING IT SECOND HAND. i should have done the

research before buying the 1070 and yes 1080 also had a similar situation.

 

So will i still trust NVIDIA ? Short answer is no. Why? Well my reason is if a card is going to give trouble out of the box then

they should at least ask the tech channels to address the situation right?  

 

Will i buy NVIDIA ? Yes. But from now on i rather will buy only new cards. Why? Because i have time to return it if there is

a fault on the card.

 

Will i trust a Tech channel again? No... Why?

 

Because despite their influence and contact persons as well as other resources only a hand full will give you long term

feed back on a secondary channel. Even less will actually report on the problems the product experienced long term. 

 

So from today my firewall will be blocking YouTube outright. Unless i am really board and i want to watch a Among us

game play or something i will check it out.

 

But as far as me making decisions on hardware? I will do my own research, find out what is happening and then make

a choice do buy it or not. Reviews to me is no longer even worth watching.

 

But oldSock you made the mistake not the tech YouTube channels! You are just a bitter old fart.

 

Here is the deal, i don't care what someone else have to say about a product. If i need it and can afford it i will buy it.

Why? because i am responsible for what i buy. If i made a mistake it is my mistake. i must do the research on the

product i must make my own conclusions. Watching a YouTube review on any product is moot. Why? Because they

have a small sample to work with and many do not do followups.

 

Real world customers and forums on the other hand do get to experience the ups and the downs of products and

as long as they voice their experience it's hands down a better resource then any YouTube channel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

2 minutes ago, oldSock said:

-snip-

You do make some good points. Like I'm sure many of us still use HDDs to store our games. While tech reviewers for the most part use all SSD systems for their test benches. Some of us are using slightly older platforms that are several generations old but just upgrade the latest GPU and call it a day. These factors do matter, maybe not night and day differences. But these sacrifices made in the builds of actual users should be taken into account by reviewers. I for one use just plain old Kingston ValuRAM or whatever they call their base model RAM offering is. I'm sure plenty of other people do as well. What performance delta should I expect to see? 

 

The same problem exists in the car review business too. Reviewer know damn well, and we all know damn well that not every one is buying the fully loaded model of a vehicle. Take the Honda Civic for instance, most people would be buying the base or mid trim. But good luck finding a review that wasn't done with the top trim. 

[AlwaysFSX]

5 minutes ago, oldSock said:

See many Tech YouTube channels say "hold off on buying it until we reviewed it" Why? What real world test do you actually

do?

Because they independently verify claims made about products and give you the information to understand if there is an issue with your product. Everyone should know that. Hardware doesn't change over time like you think it does either? There's no point in constantly testing specific products years later, we know how hardware ages. Nothing is a surprise.

 

If you buy a damaged product that risk is on you, because you should be thinking about the risks involved. If a product is a lemon it gets reported quickly (Gamers Nexus reporting on the RTX 20 series artifacting bugs, for example). Very, very little is unknown with computer hardware in this day and age that needs to be over-reported on to say "hey this thing works just like it did six months ago." You need to have your own knowledge and judgement about your specific use-case if you're an outlier.

[thrasher_565]

hmm wall of text. so you got a used 1070 and had problems with it and its  NVIDIA fault? or the problem was never mentioned after the reviews? to be fair the performance changes with each driver update. some times you got better fps some times you lose fps.

 

also there so many different setups combos its impossible to test every scenario. like gn said that even a up date in the background can mess up the data.

 

yes there are lots of reviews that are sell outs that's why i only trust serten youtubers. sometimes they don't go deep in depth reviews of the product ether.

Edited October 29, 2020 by thrasher_565

[WereCatf]

17 minutes ago, oldSock said:

So in short, reviews is moot, it is just a flashy advertisement and that is all it is. They say honest review and honest opinion

and YES they are honest about it. But the fail point is not their honesty, it is the real world implementation and how this card

will preform over time

Bull. Shit. This is a PEBKAC.

[oldSock]

20 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

hmm wall of text. so you got a used 1070 and had problems with it and its  NVIDIA fault? or the problem was never mentioned after the reviews? to be fair the performance changes with each driver update. some times you got better fps some times you lose fps.

 

yes there are lots of reviews that are sell outs that's why i only trust serten youtubers. sometimes they don't go deep in depth reviews of the product ether.

No if you actually go out and find some info about it, there was cards with real problems on it that was sold new. The fact that i got a second hand card with factory fault on it suggest a completely different situation. But yea more power to you. 

[oldSock]

21 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

Bull. Shit. This is a PEBKAC.

There is literally a warning on the very top of the post to click away LOL 

[thrasher_565]

11 minutes ago, oldSock said:

No if you actually go out and find some info about it, there was cards with real problems on it that was sold new. The fact that i got a second hand card with factory fault on it suggest a completely different situation. But yea more power to you. 

what is the problem? sory i must have missed it?

 

"high fan spin and black screen" is this it? you do no that if you buy used there no warranty right? my dad got a gtx 780 i think and keep crashing in  crysis so he had to under clock the ram from 2gb to 1.5 and it worked find. yes he could have shipped it back but he didn't care at the time. and that was a new asus strikes cared.

Edited October 29, 2020 by thrasher_565

[WereCatf]

1 minute ago, oldSock said:

There is literally a warning on the very top of the post to click away LOL 

So, you just want people who don't agree with you to not reply in this thread?

[oldSock]

10 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

So, you just want people who don't agree with you to not reply in this thread?

No i just want i meaningful debate on hardware and the real world aplication

[WereCatf]

Just now, oldSock said:

No i just want i meaningful debate on hardware and the real world aplication

Your whiny rant certainly doesn't provide a good base for that. How do you e.g. define "real-world application", when literally everyone's situation is different? The complaints about how you're not getting the same numbers from a GPU as a reviewer gets are just inane: no one ever claimed that you would get the same numbers, the point is in showing the relative performance when compared to other similar products and it's your own, personal problem if you don't understand that, not the reviewer's.

[oldSock]

11 minutes ago, thrasher_565 said:

what is the problem? sory i must have missed it?

 

"high fan spin and black screen" is this it? you do no that if you buy used there no warranty right? my dad got a gtx 780 i think and keep crashing in  crysis so he had to under clock the ram from 2gb to 1.5 and it worked find. yes he could have shipped it back but he didn't care at the time. and that was a new asus strikes cared.

Yes you are missing the point. The point here is this: How was  clearly faulty card never returned? Surly the original owner could have done so right ? Why didn't he. See this is the story that is NOT being told. Why do people have to sell faulty cards to the second hand market when a known fault existed on the product line? That is the whole point to my wall of text. 

 

There is a real story here, one that matters to both new and second hand users. Why is it not being told?

 

I am not trying to be a jerk i am trying to show you that there is a question on customer support here. This card should be landfill and the original owner should have gotten something else. That is all i am saying. Feel free to roast me but you know i am right.

[DailyProcrastinator]

An initial review and benchmark still serves it's purpose, and helps buyers become more informed. There is no valid argument against that. I 100% trust my independent go-to sources over Nvidia, AMD, Intel etc. 

 

A lot of channels will follow up with issues if they become a clear common spread problem, even if they themselves do not experience it. But realistically they cannot long term test all the hardware. Maybe it's the content you are watching or just the select videos from a given channel, but I have seen a lot of the good tech content creators (LTT, GN, Jay, Paul, HW Unboxed) take a deeper dive and often revisit something if they themselves have a significant change with how that product has worked for them (if that was a product they happened to use frequently). Or even just to provide their thoughts. 

 

And to your point, while some arguments are somewhat valid, what you want already exists. The frequency is not going to be monthly, big channels (especially) aren't going to create work for themselves if everything is going good, they need valuable content that actually gets people watching. Maybe some small time youtuber who does it as a hobby is the right content for you, because if you as a channel do not value the viewership or AdSense then you can justify that content, big channels do not, and can not, and that is okay. 

 

I get what you are saying, however, your view points have some glaring holes in them, take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Big channels have to stay relevant, this is there full time job, they often have many employees, families, and are at the mercy of an algorithm. So reviewing old products for long term testing will not bring the viewers. Yes, a certain audience will appreciate that, but they need growth. The space in which they compete in is constantly growing with more competition, relevancy and up to date content are key. 

 

I think you need to look more directly for the content you want, because it 100% exists, and I think you would be surprised by how much of it is even done by the big channels. Otherwise some of that type of content is going to be niche, and it would take place on small channels or forums like this. 

 

 

[oldSock]

1 minute ago, WereCatf said:

Your whiny rant certainly doesn't provide a good base for that. How do you e.g. define "real-world application", when literally everyone's situation is different? The complaints about how you're not getting the same numbers from a GPU as a reviewer gets are just inane: no one ever claimed that you would get the same numbers, the point is in showing the relative performance when compared to other similar products and it's your own, personal problem if you don't understand that, not the reviewer's.

And yea i can see you are angry but try to read the above again and look at the question marks.

 

Then think to yourself. Isn't it strange that this card wasn't returned? What really happened here? Like i said this is not to trigger you it is to make you think outside the box and ask why did this card ended up in the second hand market and why didn't it end up in a landfill. Why was there no swap-out? What is the deal here. But again please roast me i don't care. I stand by my point more can be done to look at the costumer side of things. 

 

As for real world. I am running a 6core FX Phenom AMD i am sure it is very old but it still works. That said i don't expect anyone to test new stuff on this old system. However a 1 year old system or even 3 year old system might be a good real world stest i don't know you tell me what you would like to see.   

[WereCatf]

31 minutes ago, oldSock said:

And yea i can see you are angry

I'm not actually angry at all.

31 minutes ago, oldSock said:

Isn't it strange that this card wasn't returned?

I have zero reason to start guessing why the previous owner -- who I don't know, who I've never met or who I've never even exchanged a single word with -- did or didn't do something. The answer could be literally anything and it's pointless to spend any time guessing. My objection is to how you're blaming reviewers for things that aren't their fault.

31 minutes ago, oldSock said:

However a 1 year old system or even 3 year old system might be a good real world stest i don't know you tell me what you would like to see

I actually understand the point with the reviews, ie. that they exist to show the relative performance compared to similar products, instead of specific numbers on a specific system in a specific environment with specific software configured in a specific manner and thus I do not have the need to "see" such.

[DailyProcrastinator]

7 minutes ago, oldSock said:

Yes you are missing the point. The point here is this: How was  clearly faulty card never returned? Surly the original owner could have done so right ? Why didn't he. See this is the story that is NOT being told. Why do people have to sell faulty cards to the second hand market when a known fault existed on the product line? That is the whole point to my wall of text. 

 

There is a real story here, one that matters to both new and second hand users. Why is it not being told?

The card not being returned was up to the previous owner. If there was no warranty that could be a reason. Maybe they did not want to RMA the card as it mostly worked fine, or were to lazy/uniformed to do so. This is not a story that needs to be told. Shit happens, products have issues, this is not anything new. 

 

People are dishonest and either do not care or do not think about their actions. There always will be bad apples and unless people feel repercussions they will continue to act as they do. 

 

What is the story you want told? 

 

 

 

[dizmo]

I see a lot of issues with what you've put forth.

• Why warn people? Seems confrontational.
• How are they supposed to find issues normal users will have? When it comes to GPUs, some issues are down to the certain game the person is playing, or other parts in their system. It's an incredibly hard thing to replicate.
• Some YouTuber's do test cards later on. GamersNexus will occasionally have roundups of older parts. Why don't they do this often? It doesn't make them money. Why doesn't it make them money? There simply isn't that much interest.
• There's absolutely nothing dishonest about their reviews. Just because they don't do it the way you want it done, doesn't make it dishonest.
• Their reviews, on launch, are incredibly useful. They show what the card is capable of when it isn't bottle necked. That's why they use top tier systems. Do you expect them to go through, and test with every CPU? Have you any idea how incredibly time consuming that would be?
• Did you buy a Founders Edition card? If not, then the problem isn't even Nvidia's, it's the company that produced the card. Not the same thing.
• What exactly is a benchmark a few months later going to do? It's going to test the exact same as it did before, because it's going to be using the exact same test bench. Sure, you might have different drivers, but if you're running the same benchmarks you did the first time, the chances of it changing are pretty slim unless they've specifically optimized for that title.
• YouTubers talk about issues cards had all the time. That's why, much to AMD fanbois chagrin, their failures with drivers is brought up time and again, or any other numerous issue that has plagued a specific GPU. There will always be the odd outlier, maybe 30 or 40 people have issues with early production cards and it doesn't get touched on too much. That's because it touches a very, very small percentage of actual users, and is usually fixed.
• If someone buys something and it's not supported in their system, that's entirely on them. It's always up to the purchaser to do their due diligence when it comes to research. No one is responsible for holding their hand.
• Forums aren't going to be a great place to get performance metrics. Chances of finding someone that's done the exact same thing, in the exact same game between different cards is unlikely, so the numbers are really quite baseless.
• How do you plan to do research with performance if you don't watch reviews? You do realize that print publications do the exact same thing, right?

 

You seem to be basing your decision entirely off a single bad experience, which is a very asinine way to look at it.

 

[19_blackie_73]

4 minutes ago, oldSock said:

This card should be landfill and the original owner should have gotten something else. That is all i am saying.

Ya know; that's the problem with rthe seller not a corporation - maybe he never experienced the problem in his workload, or he knew the fault and was a scumbag. But that's not a problem with tech reviews on youtube. What they give you is a rough number what to expect and any major issues that they can find while they test the card. Its nearly impossible to deep dive into every model of 1070 or whatever that's out there.
If you are buying used, you should know the risk.

Yes, tech reviews don't give the full story on youtube, that's why somethong like googling exists.

 

For example, the VW Golf is the best selling car in Germany. I was looking to buy one a few years back and looked at reviewa and conparison tests ro see how the car stacked up against the competition. Did I buy it straight after the review? NO!

After the rough idea i got from these tests i even test drove one or two to verify their claims and simultaneously scrolled through many forumy to find any potential failure point of the car, "known" faults. And voila, this particular model I was looking at had a problem with the valve chain, where the tensioners would break fairly soon (if I remember correctly). Of course no one mentioned it in the reviews. So should I be mad about reviewers? No! They have a bloody sample size of one, the chain didn't break on all cars but had a higher likelihood to break and frankly, even professional reviewers cant test every engine and gearbox combination of literally every car out there for 50000miles in at least 10cars each. Am I out of warranty and on my own if I purchased it as a used car? Yes! That's life, thats why I wouldnt pay as much for a new car than an used one.

 

You see where I'm going? Buy used, the have trust in the seller or verify its working before sending money over. And googling and forums help to find lesser known faults of specific models.

[thrasher_565]

22 minutes ago, oldSock said:

Yes you are missing the point. The point here is this: How was  clearly faulty card never returned? Surly the original owner could have done so right ? Why didn't he. See this is the story that is NOT being told. Why do people have to sell faulty cards to the second hand market when a known fault existed on the product line? That is the whole point to my wall of text. 

 

There is a real story here, one that matters to both new and second hand users. Why is it not being told?

 

I am not trying to be a jerk i am trying to show you that there is a question on customer support here. This card should be landfill and the original owner should have gotten something else. That is all i am saying. Feel free to roast me but you know i am right.

thats just the price you pay when buying used. on anything and any ware. i gets screwed all the time. i got some audio cables off ebay a week a got and wanted some orange cables only. well the ship it with other colors so i wanted my money back and ship it back but im probably not going to get my full money back even thow it was the seller fault. i hate it but what els i can i do, ill just leave bad feed back if i can. so i payed $35 and shipped it back for $17 and might get $35 back and out $17.

 

point is people sell there junk all the time deal with it. no idea why they dint return it. no one knows that answer but the seller. maybe the seller got it used?

[thrasher_565]

some times we just need to vent that is ok. sometimes we are wrong that is also ok.i post and say things all the time that are wrong too. im not a robot...yet.

[The_russian]

1 hour ago, oldSock said:

On my way home i tried to remember if i saw anyone doing long term follow-ups on these cards after the release date?

 

Well here is the problem. Firstly i didn't recall anyone doing a follow up. Now it is not to say that no one did a follow up

it is just i can't recall seeing a follow up on these GPU's

 

1 hour ago, oldSock said:

No if you actually go out and find some info about it, there was cards with real problems on it that was sold new.

1 hour ago, oldSock said:

Yes you are missing the point. The point here is this: How was  clearly faulty card never returned? Surly the original owner could have done so right ? Why didn't he. See this is the story that is NOT being told. Why do people have to sell faulty cards to the second hand market when a known fault existed on the product line? That is the whole point to my wall of text. 

 

There is a real story here, one that matters to both new and second hand users. Why is it not being told?

 

If you want a discussion about something, it would help if you clarified what that is. You seem to start by saying that tech reviewers aren't following up on products to see if problems arose. Then you seem to be talking about a problem that was known from the factory, so if a lot of cards were having the problem, that would have been caught early on, not only 6 months to a year after the product has been used. Then to finish it off, you start talking about the point being that someone didn't return a product that may or may not have been dysfunctional when in their possession, and that there's a story there. What happened to the story being YouTube tech reviewers not doing follow up reviews?

 

[WereCatf]

3 minutes ago, The_russian said:

What happened to the story being YouTube tech reviewers not doing follow up reviews?

What tends to happen to these kinds of stories: it fell apart.

[LogicalDrm]

Didn't read OP, just replies (reason is wall of text without good formatting, I'll might read it later).

 

You should update your title. This isn't about Youtube as platform, while it might be about your feelings towards tech-tubers as group. But if you want to complain about reviewers, why you limit it to youtubers? Why not talk about whole reviewer community which includes written reviews, and in past also published pieces.

[minibois]

You should check out RandomGaminginHD, I think his sort of content may be to your liking.

He doesn't focus on the newest tech out there, but has more of a focus on older (and often budget) second hand hardware. Through his videos, he benchmarks cards that are a couple years old and thus reviews them from a perspective of someone buying said videocards today, rather than when they came out (he mostly does videos on videocards).

 

The issue is that YouTubers like LTT, Hardware Canucks, JayzTwoCents, etc. just don't have a focus on previous generation components, it's not their focus.

It's also highly impossible to test out a component for long term support on launch and these YouTubers mentioned above don't benchmark cards after the release, because that is just not something their audience is interested in.

 

Some of these channels do touch on these sorts of issues, just not in huge detail, because these issues are very often not well-documented.

For example, these large channels do touch on very large issues, such as the Techquickie video on what Spectre/Meltdown are and JayzTwoCents' video on the performance impacts of patches for these vulnerabilities.

 

I think it's highly unfair to judge these channels based upon something that is outside of the scope of their videos subjects.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

7 hours ago, oldSock said:

See many Tech YouTube channels say "hold off on buying it until we reviewed it" Why? What real world test do you actually

do?

BECAUSE THE FUCKIG 1ST PARTY BENCHMARKS ARE NOT TRUSTWORTHY!!