Big Navi might still be faster than the 3080

[Quinnell]

1 minute ago, Spotty said:

There were also issues with Nvidia's previous gen at launch as well. Have people forgotten the space invaders memory artifacts?

Don't be a beta tester. 

Exactly.  Being an Early Adopter for just about anything is going to net you these kinds of problems.  Practice some patience...

[SpaceGhostC2C]

11 hours ago, Mateyyy said:

might

 

And hopefully they manage to have working drivers this time around.

I would settle for RDNA2 not being new hardware, just new drivers for RDNA, Vega, and co. I don't need more performance, I don't even need more performance per dollar or per watt, I just need to use the performance I have with certainty, instead of praying to the black screen gods not to show up today.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

3 minutes ago, Spotty said:

There were also issues with Nvidia's previous gen at launch as well. Have people forgotten the space invaders memory artifacts?

Don't be a beta tester. 

But when my life flashes over my eyes as I draw my last breath, how much of it would I want it to lack latest-gen graphics?

[RejZoR]

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

There were also issues with Nvidia's previous gen at launch as well. Have people forgotten the space invaders memory artifacts?

Don't be a beta tester. 

And people keep on forgetting PC's aren't consoles where every single "box" is the exact same thing. You test one and you've tested ALL of them. Good luck finding just two same PC's. Hell, even seemingly "same" might have different BIOS versions from different batches and might behave differently. If you all think NVIDIA doesn't test things, you're all delusional. But they can't test all 300 million PC configurations. Not to mention it might not even be NVIDIA's fault and it's something to do with AIB's fiddling with reference designs NVIDIA laid out for them. Coz remember, NVIDIA hands them reference design of what it's expected to have to power the NVIDIA GPU of specific series correctly. And then they fiddle with it to make it even more powerful or cheap out on it to still meet the targets but save money on them.

[RejZoR]

4 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

But when my life flashes over my eyes as I draw my last breath, how much of it would I want it to lack latest-gen graphics?

Surely he'd want the light at the end of the tunnel be ray traced

[cj09beira]

15 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

And people keep on forgetting PC's aren't consoles where every single "box" is the exact same thing. You test one and you've tested ALL of them. Good luck finding just two same PC's. Hell, even seemingly "same" might have different BIOS versions from different batches and might behave differently. If you all think NVIDIA doesn't test things, you're all delusional. But they can't test all 300 million PC configurations. Not to mention it might not even be NVIDIA's fault and it's something to do with AIB's fiddling with reference designs NVIDIA laid out for them. Coz remember, NVIDIA hands them reference design of what it's expected to have to power the NVIDIA GPU of specific series correctly. And then they fiddle with it to make it even more powerful or cheap out on it to still meet the targets but save money on them.

or the now famous, lets just use one cable with its 2 8 pins power connectors (many rx 5700xt problems came from this)

[Spotty]

10 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Not to mention it might not even be NVIDIA's fault and it's something to do with AIB's fiddling with reference designs NVIDIA laid out for them.

So far my understanding is that the issue with the 3000 series cards crashing when boosting too high is limited to certain partner model cards. So I think this is likely. There's also been some reviewers (GN I think?) saying that partners had even less time this launch to prepare prior to release which I think might also be part of the issue. Hopefully a vBIOS update can fix it for people with those cards. Some are already saying that the creator driver version solves the problem, so it might even just be an issue with early launch drivers that will be fixed in subsequent driver releases.

But, don't get me wrong I'm not picking on Nvidia. There's also been issues with Navi at launch with broken drivers. My point is the first few weeks of any new gen card launch I expect there will be some issues. I would be [pleasantly] surprised if the new Navi launch went out without a hitch, no driver issues, and lived up to the claims of matching the 3080 performance... But I would still wait for other people to test the waters first before even considering buying one.

[exetras]

I'm Just happy both sides are pushing a really good increase in performance compared to last gen.

 

Whats interesting now is that some cards are made with one specific resolution in mind, with one series for each major resolution. Its adding a layer to the market. 2070/5700 was aimed at 1440p, 2080 and 3080 are aimed at 4K and the 3090 at 8K.

[Results45]

If the RX 6900XT ends up looking like this for $699 I'll definitely buy it.

 

[leadeater]

18 hours ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

The listing hints that the GPU will feature 80 compute units (CUs) and a 256-bit memory bus

256bit memory bus is not going to allow it to be faster.

[ravenshrike]

4 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

a dumb game to test to begin with due to the excessive optimization. 

Would that all game engines be so optimized.

[Mark Kaine]

What is it with AMD and "big navi" I feel like I'm hearing this since years...

 

Quote

Well, so much for waiting until June for the reveal of AMD’s Navi cards at their big E3 event, as the latest rumours suggest we could see two Big Navi GPUs announce themselves to the world in less than a week – mostly likely when AMD take to the stage at this year’s big Computex tech show over in Taiwan.

Codenamed the Navi XT and Navi Pro (but also allegedly called the Radeon RX 3070 and Radeon RX 3080), these two graphics cards will apparently be revealed on Monday May 27, which just happens to be the same day as AMD head lady Dr Lisa Su’s key note speech.

from 2019...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/05/21/amd-navi-gpu-rx-3070-3080-release-date/amp/

 

I mean that sort of marketing isn't the greatest?

 

 

[Samfisher]

8 hours ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

There are widespread issue with these RTX cards, so it's not exactly a 1 in a million case.

 

I know, but OP didn't bring that up in his sweeping generalization.  Also it's affecting 3 different AIB cards.  The Zotac Trident we all know was purposefully gimped to make their other cards look better, and the Gaming X has worse everything than the base model Asus TUF and it costs even more, so it's a lot of corner cutting from AIBs.  Whether the core itself or drivers is to blame is yet to be determined.

[Bombastinator]

several years ago I stopped buying games that hadn’t already been out for a year.  That way the bugs got worked out and the hypetrain reviews got replaced with real ones so I could actually know if the game was any good before I bought it.   Seems to go double for GPUs.  I’ll be holding on to my moldy old 580 and 1080p till it stops working well or the market stabilizes I think. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

several years ago I stopped buying games that hadn’t already been out for a year.  That way the bugs got worked out and the hypetrain reviews got replaced with real ones so I could actually know if the game was any good before I bought it.   Seems to go double for GPUs.  I’ll be holding on to my moldy old 580 and 1080p till it stops working well or the market stabilizes I think. 

GTX or RX?

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, ShrimpBrime said:

GTX or RX?

Point.  Rx

[Guest]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

Point.  Rx

I figured, but then I have 3 GTX 580's here so I figured what the heck and ask.

[Blademaster91]

35 minutes ago, Samfisher said:

I know, but OP didn't bring that up in his sweeping generalization.  Also it's affecting 3 different AIB cards.  The Zotac Trident we all know was purposefully gimped to make their other cards look better, and the Gaming X has worse everything than the base model Asus TUF and it costs even more, so it's a lot of corner cutting from AIBs.  Whether the core itself or drivers is to blame is yet to be determined.

 I've heard from reviewers in several videos that RTX 30 series production started in August, not sure if that is on purpose, but either way there's only a few cards to go around, and the AIB's didn't have much time to come up with their own designs either, the RTX 30 series seems rushed to beat AMD's big navi.

I don't blame the AIB's for having to cut costs because Nvidia has been raising prices since the RTX 20 series, but things like the MSI Gaming X having a plastic backplate, and the Zotac trident made worse on purpose is just unacceptable when it costs more than the FE.

I'm not getting any hopes up for big navi to be any faster than a 3080 but I think even matching a 3070 would be some much needed competition.

[Samfisher]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

 I've heard from reviewers in several videos that RTX 30 series production started in August, not sure if that is on purpose, but either way there's only a few cards to go around, and the AIB's didn't have much time to come up with their own designs either, the RTX 30 series seems rushed to beat AMD's big navi.

I don't blame the AIB's for having to cut costs because Nvidia has been raising prices since the RTX 20 series, but things like the MSI Gaming X having a plastic backplate, and the Zotac trident made worse on purpose is just unacceptable when it costs more than the FE.

I'm not getting any hopes up for big navi to be any faster than a 3080 but I think even matching a 3070 would be some much needed competition.

AMD have managed to match the xx70 series of cards from Nvidia pretty consistently, but that's AMD's top card and nowhere near nvidia's own top card.  AMD has to topple the x70's, the x80's, the x80 TI's and then the Titans.  They're barely scratching at the heels of the 2070 Super with their highest end card.  Everyone benefits from better competition.  I just want cheaper GPUs dammit.  Unfortunately, Tensor cores and NVENC are far too important for me to give up and go to AMD.  I just wish I didn't have to pay so much for the privilege.

[Bombastinator]

46 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

I figured, but then I have 3 GTX 580's here so I figured what the heck and ask.

No it makes sense.  Totally reasonable question.  My machine is old enough.

[schwellmo92]

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

256bit memory bus is not going to allow it to be faster.

There have been rumours of a 128MB on-die “infinity cache”, maybe they don’t need as much memory bandwidth. Or maybe they do and Big Navi is just slower.

[GDRRiley]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

256bit memory bus is not going to allow it to be faster.

I wouldn't be so sure. its down to bandwidth

[Blademaster91]

4 hours ago, Samfisher said:

AMD have managed to match the xx70 series of cards from Nvidia pretty consistently, but that's AMD's top card and nowhere near nvidia's own top card.  AMD has to topple the x70's, the x80's, the x80 TI's and then the Titans.  They're barely scratching at the heels of the 2070 Super with their highest end card.  Everyone benefits from better competition.  I just want cheaper GPUs dammit.  Unfortunately, Tensor cores and NVENC are far too important for me to give up and go to AMD.  I just wish I didn't have to pay so much for the privilege.

Yeah I agree, I wish tensors cores weren't a premium feature you have to pay more for, if AMD can compete with the x80 card then maybe ray tracing might be more mainstream. I've heard AMD has something similar to NVENC but it doesn't work nearly as well as NVENC.

[Samfisher]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

Yeah I agree, I wish tensors cores weren't a premium feature you have to pay more for, if AMD can compete with the x80 card then maybe ray tracing might be more mainstream. I've heard AMD has something similar to NVENC but it doesn't work nearly as well as NVENC.

AMD VCE is terrible...  Either way, a 3080 is a guarantee for me, coming from a 1070.  I can expect 250-300% performance uplift.

[porina]

4 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

I wouldn't be so sure. its down to bandwidth

OP quote claims the top navi card has 256-bit memory width. This is equal width to the 3070 running GDDR6, which runs it at 16Gbps. There are faster grades available. GDDR6X on 3080/3090 is 19-19.5Gbps. Top tier 6X apparently goes to 21Gbps. Even running the top stuff on 256-bit width would give 10+% less bandwidth than the current 3080.

 

Bandwidth should be balanced with the capability of the execution units, unless they are using some method to reduce the bandwidth required relative to what nvidia are doing.

 

5 hours ago, schwellmo92 said:

There have been rumours of a 128MB on-die “infinity cache”, maybe they don’t need as much memory bandwidth. Or maybe they do and Big Navi is just slower.

128MB sounds awfully small. Remember Intel Iris Pro graphics? That had 128MB of eDRAM to act as a cache, but that was on iGPUs from 5+ years ago.

 

Such a small quantity might make sense if it was L1 cache, since it would be spread over a lot of cores. In searching for the term "infinity cache" I'm lead to an AMD patent apparently describing... something. It's too early in my morning for me to read patent-speak. Not easy at the best of times, but on an initial skim of the first part of the document, it sounds like pooling of L1 from a second set of CUs to help with the active set. I'm wondering if this is more a compute feature than a gaming feature.