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rcmaehl

[Developing] Consumers mass troll 3080 scalpers and potentially cost them in fees

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1 minute ago, tikker said:

I think it's the other way around. It's not such much them earning fees, but them having to pay fees to eBay. They'll have to sell to the highest bidder, but nobody is going to pay 50k for a 3080. They then have to cancel the auction and then eBay charges them for cancelling an auction early even though it has bidders.

 

Ebay will refund/cancel the fees if you don't get paid. I've had it happen on a couple things before. They might have to pay listing fees though but those are usually pretty cheap so unless they listed 100s of the same item it won't cost them thousands for sure. There is a second chance offer but you don't have to use it.


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15 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Exactly, if they think they own the fees from the sale they are idiots because the fees are only paid if you sell the item and get paid :)

I don't think I've seen anyone get listing fees for electronics in forever and those are usually like $0.50 or $1 per item.

Unless something has changed recently, the fees are automatically charged at the end of the month, regardless of if the buyers pays them or not (could have always met up in person or smth) so unless either the buyer or seller actually completely cancel the transaction, eBay will charge them the 10% fee. 


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What? As I said, there seriously is nothing here :) 

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Just now, Mr.Meerkat said:

Unless something has changed recently, the fees are automatically charged at the end of the month, regardless of if the buyers pays them or not (could have always met up in person or smth) so unless either the buyer or seller actually completely cancel the transaction, eBay will charge them the 10% fee. 

Yah, if the person refuses to pay then they don't get charged but if the buyer draws it out even over the month line and says "nah, I won't pay" then they don't get charged BUT yes, if neither party cancels then they are charged fees.


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3 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Ebay will refund/cancel the fees if you don't get paid. I've had it happen on a couple things before. They might have to pay listing fees though but those are usually pretty cheap so unless they listed 100s of the same item it won't cost them thousands for sure. There is a second chance offer but you don't have to use it.

Ah I see. I found some older Q&A topics on eBay mentioning something along 10% of the highest bid being charged, but their current documentation only says "fees may apply". Perhaps it has changed then (or I'm not understanding eBay fully :P )


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2 minutes ago, tikker said:

Ah I see. I found some older Q&A topics on eBay mentioning something alont 10% of the highest bid being charged, but their current documentation only says "fees may apply". Perhaps it has changed then.

As @Mr.Meerkat mentioned there is a 10% fee of the final sale but if cancelled it doesn't apply/gets refunded. I actually had that happen on a old GPU for like $30 where I paid the fee but the person wanted to return it later on within the timeframe allowed so they refunded the fee once I refunded the money. It's definitely not easy to follow :D

 

Edit:

I do want to say it's been over a year since I bought or sold anything on ebay so things could have changed since then.


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1 minute ago, Lurick said:

Yah, if the person refuses to pay then they don't get charged but if the buyer draws it out even over the month line and says "nah, I won't pay" then they don't get charged BUT yes, if neither party cancels then they are charged fees.

Yep, I mean if it does get cancelled afterwards, they will get refunded but how many people actually have $8000 on their debit/credit card limit? It could easily end up in a situation where it leads the seller to (massively) exceed their overdraft or negatively affecting their credit score. Of course, this is hypothetical but it could happen.  


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Should make the scalpers keep the fee. They've earned it. 


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Scalpers deserves to be shitfaced while dragged down the road untill their flesh is getting cut off by razors.

Fuck scalpers.

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38 minutes ago, TheSLSAMG said:

That's fair, I don't view both on an equal level of importance, obviously restricting access to a life-saving item is definitely worse.

Indeed both are douche moves but one of them deserves prison more than the other.

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6 minutes ago, epicdotexe said:

It's really sad to see all this rage at what amounts to "not being allowed to spend as much money on worthless products as I wanted." A sign of the times I guess?

 

This costs the eBay users nothing. For those unaware, creating listings on eBay is free. You can create hundreds, or even thousands, of listings for free. Final value fees (the percentage eBay takes) are not collected until long after payment is *received* from the purchaser, eBay actually invoices you once a month.

 

The funniest part of this ironically winds up being the content creators banking on unaware, angry consumers with clickbait titles and false content.

Nope: FVFs are charged regardless of whether the seller is paid. Yes, the seller can apply for a FVF credit. But it's rather cumbersome, and the point of this 'trolling' is to be an inconvenience. 

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Okay, so we really need to clear some things up here. I've been selling on eBay for a very long time, so I know how the system works and when you do and do not have to pay fees. OP @rcmaehlplease mark this post as the answer so others can see what's going on in the sellers backend.

 

Part 1.

 

When you sell an item on eBay, you have to pay multiple fees. Let's break them down.

 

Spoiler

1. A final value fee -

 

This is the fee that you pay to sell anything on eBay, and for most people it's 10%. Immediately after a sale is made, the buyer is billed 10% of the value of the fee. This does NOT mean the amount is due immediately after the sale! More on this later.

 

2. Credit card processing fee -

 

This is the fee you pay to accept credit/Debit cards on eBay. This fee is only charged when the buyer exchanges money with the seller. These fees are only paid when the buyer pays for the item. So what this means for scalpers is because the buyers aren't actually paying for the items and just "winning" the auctions, they are not paying the fees.

 

3. Shipping Fees - 

 

If your item is advertised as "Free Shipping" this means the seller pays to ship the item (which is really a myth because sellers just raise the price of the item). For eample I sell CPUs and memory with "Free Shipping" so I pay the ~$3 shipping fee to send that new CPU or memory to you. Since the buyer never pays, the seller does not have to ship out the item until the buyer has paid. Obviously this means the sellers aren't paying for this either.

 

4. eBay store fees - I doubt the scalpers are smart enough to read into this but if you pay eBay $28 a month ($22 a month with an annual contract), you can drop your eBay fees from 10% on computer parts all the way down to 4%. If you sell over $500 of computer parts a month, then paying the fee can makes financial sense. Since I sell mostly PC parts on eBay, I pay for this store subscription fee as it saves me hundreds of dollars in eBay fees every month. My guess is the eBay scalpers probably aren't smart enough to know about this, so they probably didn't bother getting an eBay store just so they can drop their fees down.

Part 2.

What happens to the seller if a buyer doesn't pay:

Spoiler

1.The seller does not have to pay for the credit card transaction fee because the buyer never paid for them, so they aren't losing money there.

2. The seller does not have to pay for shipping because the buyer never paid for the item in  the first place. so they aren't losing money here.

 

3. The Seller will be immediately billed the 4-10% final value fee for the price of the item. However this does NOT mean the seller will have to pay for it, yet. And this is where the important details are left out. My eBay fees are due in a lump-sum at the end of every month, meaning eBay sends me an invoice for all my fees (not including shippiing), and I pay the whole amount with my credit card. But again, this amount is only due after almost a month has passed and your invoice has closed. This is likely where the whole confusion is coming from. 

 

What does eBay do about buyers who don't pay? First, the seller can open an"unpaid item" case on eBay, and the buyer will have roughly a week following the case to pay the item. If the item is still not paid for the final value fees eBay billed the seller will be refunded! This is critically important to everything left out here both in Science Studios video and none of you on the forum seem to understand this, including the scalpers. My guess is the scalpers flipping this stuff on eBay really don't know how eBay's systems work internally, and are seeing a huge final value fee eBay has billed them, without realizing they can open an Unpaid item case and their final value fees will be refunded aafter two weeks. This whole thing is creating confusion amoung both buyers and sellers, where the sellers think they are SOL, and the buyers think they are being gigantic trolls. No buyers, you are not being trolls, in fact, you are only hurting yourself. Let's explore what happens to buyers in part 3.

 

Part 3.

what happens eBay do to the buyer's if they don't pay:

Spoiler

If the buyer chooses not to pay, the presumably the scalper will open an Unpaid item case against the buyer. Unless the buyer decides to fork over the money, eBay will rule in the sellers Favor and issue what is known as an "unpaid Item Strike" to the buyer. If an an eBay account get's more then three unpaid item strikes, their account is permenantly banned. Now yes there are ways to make a new account by using other people's information, but if the buyer tries to sign up for a new eBay account with the same info they used, they will simply be banned again.

 

Then there's sellers like me who will simply "filter you out". In my seller dashboard, there is an option for me to prevent anyone with under 5 feedback or a single unpaid item strike from buying my products. This means even if the troll decides to create another account, they can never buy from me again. I choose to do this because it filters out garbage buyers (like these trolls) who either want to do this to me, or conceptually don't understand how eBay works and think it's basically Amazon and treat me like garbage too. Now let's move onto part 4. The Epic conclusion of how ebay works.

 

Part 4:

Spoiler

All of this has been caused by a massive amount of confusion of people who don't fundamantally understand how eBay bills sellers, and buyers think that they can get a one-over on scalpers. But the truth is the buyers are only hurting themselves. they could end up having their account blocked form buying certian products from certian sellers, or worse their account will be completely banned. The sellers on the other hand will simply have a huge final value fee showing up on their seller dashboard, then the fee will dissapear after they file (and win) their unpaid item case.

 

If buyers really and truly want to get back at scalpers, do what has been done for centuries: Don't buy their stuff. Stop buying it, and the cards will sit there for months on end until AIB cards end up being released. Then scalpers will be forced to bring down prices inline with the rest of the RTX 3000 series card currently on the market, and they will ultimately lose money, and hopefully never do this again. I see a bunch of eBay accounts getting banned from this, and the result will be the scalpers still end up winning. I hope everyone here learns an important lesson: Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

 

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3 minutes ago, epicdotexe said:

Like I said, final value fees are not collected until long after the sale. Being a nuisance and being productive are two very different things!

But what you said is wrong. There's no relationship between the seller getting paid and eBay invoicing the seller. If the seller wants to avoid the FVF, they have to go through a process to do so, telling eBay that the buyer never stumped up the cash.

 

Yeah, this isn't productive. It isn't supposed to be. It's supposed to cause a nuisance, and, as an experienced eBay seller, I can tell you that this kind of thing would infuriate me. 

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4 minutes ago, epicdotexe said:

Like I said, final value fees are not collected until long after the sale. Being a nuisance and being productive are two very different things!

And most importantly for the buyers, this will backfire and leave them with unpaid item strikes on their account. See part 3 and 4 of my writeup. For the sellers, this just ends up being mildly inconvenient.

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47 minutes ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

Yep, I mean if it does get cancelled afterwards, they will get refunded but how many people actually have $8000 on their debit/credit card limit? It could easily end up in a situation where it leads the seller to (massively) exceed their overdraft or negatively affecting their credit score. Of course, this is hypothetical but it could happen.  

Yeah this cannot happen. Read my writeup. eBay will place the $8000 as a balance that you have to pay on an invoice, and you only have to pay off this balance at the end of the month. So no, this whole troll thing couldn't even do that. 

 

BTW I do have a credit card with a 30K limit.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
17 minutes ago, CircleTech said:

Okay, so we really need to clear some things up here. I've been selling on eBay for a very long time, so I know how the system works and when you do and do not have to pay fees. OP @rcmaehlplease mark this post as the answer so others can see what's going on in the sellers backend.

 

I may, I'll have to read through it all. So far at a quick glance, you're missing the max fees a seller can be charged, how many items an account can bid on at once, and the fact that some scalpers are quite new. Additionally, please note that FVF refunds are not automatic (unless things have changed recently)

 


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I said they had a right to resell and I stand by that, but I'll also admit,

 

They absolutely deserve it lol.


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1 hour ago, Lurick said:

Ebay will refund/cancel the fees if you don't get paid. I've had it happen on a couple things before. They might have to pay listing fees though but those are usually pretty cheap so unless they listed 100s of the same item it won't cost them thousands for sure. There is a second chance offer but you don't have to use it.

This isn't correct, you have to cancel the order to not get charged a fee.  Doesn't matter whether the buyer pays or not.  What probably happens here is you have to mark the item as cancelled for no-longer-in-stock so then it doesn't require the buyer to confirm, and then they'll refund you the fees (from your balance) automatically.


I've bought stuff from myself so I can use the ebay shipping discount  (just "commit to buy" and don't pay).  If I don't cancel the order then I get charged fees.  I just buy -> create shipping label -> cancel the transaction.


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Any of you asshole resellers complaining on here can suck a big fat one. You are all pieces of shit who are fucking the market all up. Greedy assholes. I fully believe youre all cancerous shits who deserve a kick to the dick by superman. 

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1 hour ago, rcmaehl said:

Since I no longer am allowed to put catchy taglines in the topic

Why's that?

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, TempestCatto said:

Why's that?

I'd rather not stir up drama, but it has been deemed to not be relevant enough to keep. Posting quips is fine anywhere other than the title though.


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21 minutes ago, rcmaehl said:

I'd rather not stir up drama, but it has been deemed to not be relevant enough to keep. Posting quips is fine anywhere other than the title though.

I think that's stupid. I had one mod, literally one, remove my LTT sponsor spot at the end of my tech news post. Kinda just made me not want to post any more news topics.

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31 minutes ago, epicdotexe said:

I use a five year old Quadro, can't say I planned to buy anything from Nvidia during this launch. Those of us here explaining eBay's policies are doing just that: explaining eBay's policies.

 

What this whole "event" amounts to is a tantrum: people (literally adults, in many instances) didn't get what they want when they wanted it (surely there will be stock in a month or so), so now they're screaming about it.

 

We've all seen a toddler sitting in a shopping cart screaming after mommy says no to getting a new toy. That's what this is.

 

Nah not the same thing at all. People who were looking forward to this were denied due to scalpers. Scalpers are scum and should be viewed as such. If it all sold out due to consumers that wanted to use them is one thing, to have bots buy 40+ for one person is disgusting and needs to stop. These ebay resellers are getting exactly what they deserve.

Fuck scalpers and scalper sympathizers    

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Quality shit posting right here https://www.ebay.com/itm/224160791880

 

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2 hours ago, epicdotexe said:

Explaining eBay policies = EVIL 🤪

 

Really is that all you did. Lets check shall we.

 

3 hours ago, epicdotexe said:

What this whole "event" amounts to is a tantrum: people (literally adults, in many instances) didn't get what they want when they wanted it (surely there will be stock in a month or so), so now they're screaming about it.

 

We've all seen a toddler sitting in a shopping cart screaming after mommy says no to getting a new toy. That's what this is.

 

Oh wait it wasn't. BZZZZT you got caught.

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