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HeLiOn

Advice regarding a NAS I just built

12 hours ago, HeLiOn said:

Now after I gave it a thought, I can definitely see myself using this unit for other things (small game servers and such), so I'll be looking into Linux.
Is there a version that works with no UI, just like FreeNAS, on which you also install cockpit? Sorry, I really know nothing about it.
If you have some materials that can get me started, I'd really appreciate it.

 

Yeah if you use Ubuntu, the Ubuntu Server install has no desktop environment by default. Then just make sure the SSH Server feature is added during the installation process (i think it is by default). Then you can just use PuTTy or similar to connect to a terminal session remotely for anything you may need outside of the WebUI

 

If you go this route and you want docker, i'd personally install Docker after Ubuntu is installed, to get the official docker.io rather than docker-ce (open source community edition). 

 

So after Ubuntu is installed, to get it up and running just run

sudo apt remove docker docker-engine docker-ce
sudo apt install docker.io
sudo apt install cockpit cockpit-docker -y
sudo systemctl start docker
sudo systemctl enable docker

You may need to allow the port through the firewall, which in Ubuntu would be

sudo ufw allow 9090/tcp

 

Everything should be installed then, and persistant through a reboot, then you can access the Cockpit UI at http://myservername:9090 

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Hey there!

So I just finished assembling the build you see in the image below.
For those curious, it's fitted with a Celeron G4930 3.2 GHz CPU and 8 GBs DDR4


Untitled.jpg.67ca12454612102ca1836e0949d1c85a.jpg

 

Its purpose is mainly to serve as a PLEX server. I could use some advice regarding the OS.
From what I've read FreeNAS (or TrueNAS Core) is popular. I tried installing it using a bootable USB to another USB that would basically serve as hard drive, but the installer kept failing to boot.
I'd like to know if it's possible to install FreeNAS on a USB drive using another computer, and just plugging the destination drive to the new rig. If it's not possible, I guess I'll have to borrow an optical drive.
Also, are there any better alternatives than FreeNAS? I'm trying to make this rig consume as less power as possible, so I'm open to any suggestions.

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Back when I was researching stuff for my NAS build I stumbled upon a claim that FreeNAS wants a GB of RAM for every TB of storage in your system because of how ZFS works. Does this still hold true?

 

I myself went with unRAID, because it is possible to expand your storage dynamically with time as the time goes with that (comes with it not being a RAID). It does however cost money, a one-time payment. 

 

In unRAID's case, I have the OS on a Sandisk Cruzer Blade USB stick (USB 2.0 version, since USB 3.0 tend to get too hot, which might damage the USB drive in the scenario of it being always plugged in)


I like cute animal pics.

Way too much hardware to list it here. Just check my profile.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
37 minutes ago, n0stalghia said:

Back when I was researching stuff for my NAS build I stumbled upon a claim that FreeNAS wants a GB of RAM for every TB of storage in your system because of how ZFS works. Does this still hold true?

You got that one wrong.

It's not 1 GB of RAM for every TB. It's 1 GB of RAM for every hard drive used.
You can read the detailed requirements here. Basically, the minimum amount of RAM required is 8 GBs.
It will probably need more if you use more hard drives and you plan to install virtual machines or several additional plugins.

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8 hours ago, HeLiOn said:

From what I've read FreeNAS (or TrueNAS Core) is popular. I tried installing it using a bootable USB to another USB that would basically serve as hard drive, but the installer kept failing to boot.
I'd like to know if it's possible to install FreeNAS on a USB drive using another computer, and just plugging the destination drive to the new rig. If it's not possible, I guess I'll have to borrow an optical drive.
Also, are there any better alternatives than FreeNAS? I'm trying to make this rig consume as less power as possible, so I'm open to any suggestions.

 

Whats the error when it fails? Theres no reason I see why you couldnt prep it on another system, but you might run into NIC issues so you may just need to reconfigure the network adapter on the NAS once it's booted up. 

 

Have you considered just doing an Ubuntu/Debian system? Using a Linux kernel means if you want to you can leverage the iGPU for transcoding if you have a Plex Pass / Emby Premiere. You could then just run anything you want under Docker, the linuxserver.io team have an excellent docker container for Plex..

If you want a Web UI to manage Ubuntu you can also use Cockpit: https://cockpit-project.org/ 


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Server 2: Corsair 400R | IcyDock MB998SP & MB455SPF | Seasonic Focus Plus 650w PSU | 2 x Xeon X5650's | 48GB DDR3-ECC | Asus Z8NA-D6C Motherboard | AOC-SAS2LP-MV8 | LSI MegaRAID 9271-8i | RES2SV240 SAS Expander | Samsung 840Evo 120GB | 5 x 8TB Seagate Archives | 10 x 3TB WD Red

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
6 hours ago, Jarsky said:

 

Whats the error when it fails? Theres no reason I see why you couldnt prep it on another system, but you might run into NIC issues so you may just need to reconfigure the network adapter on the NAS once it's booted up. 

It's kinda hard to read, because there are 2 rows of text that keep getting spammed. Before that spam, it does say that the kernel cannot be loaded (or something along those lines)

6 hours ago, Jarsky said:

Have you considered just doing an Ubuntu/Debian system? Using a Linux kernel means if you want to you can leverage the iGPU for transcoding if you have a Plex Pass / Emby Premiere. You could then just run anything you want under Docker, the linuxserver.io team have an excellent docker container for Plex..

If you want a Web UI to manage Ubuntu you can also use Cockpit: https://cockpit-project.org/ 

I have zero experience with Linux, to be honest. I only wondered through its UI for a few minutes at some point, but that's it. I can look into this option as well, though. Any further details would be appreciated. I've just read through some FreeNAS tutorials, and I'm kinda bummed, cause i know nothing about jails or how they work. Is Linux easier to set up for PLEX or Emby?

As for the software itself, so far, I've tested the windows version of the PLEX server and it seems to work just fine. The TV app, though seems to have issues reading some of the movies I have.
Playing the movies through the app sometimes gives rainbow colors on the screen (like In the image I attached). Playing those movies through the TV's default player works just fine. If I can't get that thing to work, I'll give Emby a go as well.

20200918_100055.jpg

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13 minutes ago, HeLiOn said:

It's kinda hard to read, because there are 2 rows of text that keep getting spammed. Before that spam, it does say that the kernel cannot be loaded (or something along those lines)

Perhaps its a UEFI issue...when you start it up check the Boot devices, and load the one that says something like UEFI USB

 

13 minutes ago, HeLiOn said:

I have zero experience with Linux, to be honest. I only wondered through its UI for a few minutes at some point, but that's it. I can look into this option as well, though. Any further details would be appreciated. I've just read through some FreeNAS tutorials, and I'm kinda bummed, cause i know nothing about jails or how they work. Is Linux easier to set up for PLEX or Emby?

I wouldn't say either is easier than the other. FreeNAS locks you to ZFS, has less hardware support, and is limited in many ways when you want to use it for more than just ZFS storage. Linux on the other hand has far broader support, still supports ZFS if that's what you want to use, but also MDADM and other solutions. 

 

Ubuntu can install Docker during the initial setup, and you can install Portainer if you want for graphical management of Docker containers. 

You can also manage docker and storage and everything else in Linux by using Cockpit...for Ubuntu its a simple 1 line command

 

https://cockpit-project.org/running.html

sudo apt-get install cockpit
13 minutes ago, HeLiOn said:

As for the software itself, so far, I've tested the windows version of the PLEX server and it seems to work just fine. The TV app, though seems to have issues reading some of the movies I have. Playing the movies through the app sometimes gives rainbow colors on the screen (like In the image I attached). Playing those movies through the TV's default player works just fine. If I can't get that thing to work, I'll give Emby a go as well.

I've honestly never seen that issue. 

I just started trialing Emby about 3 months ago, and I really like it. The interface is more intuitive than Plex, and you can switch subtitles and audio without pausing/rebuffering the stream which is really awesome. 

I'd recommend trying them both out to see which one you prefer


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Server 1: Fractal Design Define R6 | Ryzen 3950x | ASRock X570 Taichi | EVGA GTX1070 FTW | 64GB (4x16GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000Mhz | Corsair RM650v2 PSU | Fractal S36 Triple AIO | 10 x 8TB HGST Ultrastar He10 (WD Whitelabel) | 500GB Aorus Gen4 NVMe | 2 x 1TB Crucial P1 NVMe | LSI 9211-8i HBA

 

Server 2: Corsair 400R | IcyDock MB998SP & MB455SPF | Seasonic Focus Plus 650w PSU | 2 x Xeon X5650's | 48GB DDR3-ECC | Asus Z8NA-D6C Motherboard | AOC-SAS2LP-MV8 | LSI MegaRAID 9271-8i | RES2SV240 SAS Expander | Samsung 840Evo 120GB | 5 x 8TB Seagate Archives | 10 x 3TB WD Red

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
54 minutes ago, Jarsky said:

Perhaps its a UEFI issue...when you start it up check the Boot devices, and load the one that says something like UEFI USB

the UEFI sees both USB drives (the installer and the destination drive), but none of them seemed to be bootable.

54 minutes ago, Jarsky said:

Perhaps its a UEFI issue...when you start it up check the Boot devices, and load the one that says something like UEFI USB

I wouldn't say either is easier than the other. FreeNAS locks you to ZFS, has less hardware support, and is limited in many ways when you want to use it for more than just ZFS storage. Linux on the other hand has far broader support, still supports ZFS if that's what you want to use, but also MDADM and other solutions. 

Ubuntu can install Docker during the initial setup, and you can install Portainer if you want for graphical management of Docker containers. 

You can also manage docker and storage and everything else in Linux by using Cockpit...for Ubuntu its a simple 1 line command

https://cockpit-project.org/running.html


sudo apt-get install cockpit

 

Now after I gave it a thought, I can definitely see myself using this unit for other things (small game servers and such), so I'll be looking into Linux.
Is there a version that works with no UI, just like FreeNAS, on which you also install cockpit? Sorry, I really know nothing about it.
If you have some materials that can get me started, I'd really appreciate it.

54 minutes ago, Jarsky said:

I've honestly never seen that issue. 

I just started trialing Emby about 3 months ago, and I really like it. The interface is more intuitive than Plex, and you can switch subtitles and audio without pausing/rebuffering the stream which is really awesome. 

I'd recommend trying them both out to see which one you prefer

I just tested the TV app. Unfortunately it seems to behave the same way with those movies.
This kind of display goes on and off throughout the movie. Again, loading the movie in the TV's default player works just fine.
This only happens with some of the HDR movies. Most of the content can be viewed without issues.
Anyway, Emby does seem more responsive and has more user friendly features, so I think I'll stick with it.

 

image.png.282311e8bf68397ad03a5ce3293dd0d2.png

 

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There's actually a way to run Synology's DSM on any PC. I will admit it has its issues (mainly that you cannot update DSM until the launcher is updated to support the new version) however given all the benefits DSM has over other NAS OSes I think its a fair compromise.

 

https://xpenology.org/


Main Rig:-

Ryzen 7 3800X | Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming | 16GB Team Group Dark Pro 3600Mhz | Corsair MP600 1TB PCIe Gen 4 | Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse | Corsair H115i Platinum | WD Black 1TB | WD Green 4TB | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 650W | Asus TUF GT501 | Samsung C27HG70 1440p 144hz HDR FreeSync 2 | Windows 10 Pro X64 |

 

Server:-

Intel NUC running Server 2019 + Synology DSM218+ with 2 x 4TB Toshiba NAS Ready HDDs (RAID0)

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Posted · Original PosterOP
5 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

There's actually a way to run Synology's DSM on any PC. I will admit it has its issues (mainly that you cannot update DSM until the launcher is updated to support the new version) however given all the benefits DSM has over other NAS OSes I think its a fair compromise.

 

https://xpenology.org/

Is that legal?

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36 minutes ago, HeLiOn said:

Is that legal?

Its a bit of a grey area but the general consensus is yes. Synology's license agreement states that you can only use DSM on an official Synology device however it also says that any part of DSM that are covered by the open source GPL license remain covered by GPL and Synology's license cannot supersede that.

 

DSM is built on Linux and Linux is very much covered under GPL. Admittedly there's some custom software in DSM that would not come under GPL however.

 

Xpenology has existed for several years now, Synology are more than aware of its existence and to date they have never attempted to shut the project down which means either they don't care about it or they know that DSM is really Linux which they cannot license.

 

As with all things like this though, don't expect any support from Synology if you get an issue.


Main Rig:-

Ryzen 7 3800X | Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming | 16GB Team Group Dark Pro 3600Mhz | Corsair MP600 1TB PCIe Gen 4 | Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse | Corsair H115i Platinum | WD Black 1TB | WD Green 4TB | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 650W | Asus TUF GT501 | Samsung C27HG70 1440p 144hz HDR FreeSync 2 | Windows 10 Pro X64 |

 

Server:-

Intel NUC running Server 2019 + Synology DSM218+ with 2 x 4TB Toshiba NAS Ready HDDs (RAID0)

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Posted · Original PosterOP
4 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Its a bit of a grey area but the general consensus is yes. Synology's license agreement states that you can only use DSM on an official Synology device however it also says that any part of DSM that are covered by the open source GPL license remain covered by GPL and Synology's license cannot supersede that.

 

DSM is built on Linux and Linux is very much covered under GPL. Admittedly there's some custom software in DSM that would not come under GPL however.

 

Xpenology has existed for several years now, Synology are more than aware of its existence and to date they have never attempted to shut the project down which means either they don't care about it or they know that DSM is really Linux which they cannot license.

 

As with all things like this though, don't expect any support from Synology if you get an issue.

Given the extra possibilities, I'm more inclined to just go with Linux. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
 

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Posted · Best Answer
12 hours ago, HeLiOn said:

Now after I gave it a thought, I can definitely see myself using this unit for other things (small game servers and such), so I'll be looking into Linux.
Is there a version that works with no UI, just like FreeNAS, on which you also install cockpit? Sorry, I really know nothing about it.
If you have some materials that can get me started, I'd really appreciate it.

 

Yeah if you use Ubuntu, the Ubuntu Server install has no desktop environment by default. Then just make sure the SSH Server feature is added during the installation process (i think it is by default). Then you can just use PuTTy or similar to connect to a terminal session remotely for anything you may need outside of the WebUI

 

If you go this route and you want docker, i'd personally install Docker after Ubuntu is installed, to get the official docker.io rather than docker-ce (open source community edition). 

 

So after Ubuntu is installed, to get it up and running just run

sudo apt remove docker docker-engine docker-ce
sudo apt install docker.io
sudo apt install cockpit cockpit-docker -y
sudo systemctl start docker
sudo systemctl enable docker

You may need to allow the port through the firewall, which in Ubuntu would be

sudo ufw allow 9090/tcp

 

Everything should be installed then, and persistant through a reboot, then you can access the Cockpit UI at http://myservername:9090 

 


Spoiler

Desktop: Ryzen 7 2700x | Aorus X470 Gaming Ultra | EVGA RTX2080 Super | 32GB (4x8GB) Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 3200Mhz | Corsair H105 AIO, NZXT Sentry 3 | Corsair SP120's | 1TB Crucial P1 NVMe, 4TB WD Black | Phanteks Enthoo Pro | Corsair RM650v2 PSU | LG 32" 32GK850G Monitor | Ducky Shine 3 Keyboard, Logitech G502, MicroLab Solo 7C Speakers, Razer Goliathus Extended, X360 Controller | Windows 10 Pro | SteelSeries Siberia 350 Headphones

 

Spoiler

Server 1: Fractal Design Define R6 | Ryzen 3950x | ASRock X570 Taichi | EVGA GTX1070 FTW | 64GB (4x16GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000Mhz | Corsair RM650v2 PSU | Fractal S36 Triple AIO | 10 x 8TB HGST Ultrastar He10 (WD Whitelabel) | 500GB Aorus Gen4 NVMe | 2 x 1TB Crucial P1 NVMe | LSI 9211-8i HBA

 

Server 2: Corsair 400R | IcyDock MB998SP & MB455SPF | Seasonic Focus Plus 650w PSU | 2 x Xeon X5650's | 48GB DDR3-ECC | Asus Z8NA-D6C Motherboard | AOC-SAS2LP-MV8 | LSI MegaRAID 9271-8i | RES2SV240 SAS Expander | Samsung 840Evo 120GB | 5 x 8TB Seagate Archives | 10 x 3TB WD Red

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, Jarsky said:

 

Yeah if you use Ubuntu, the Ubuntu Server install has no desktop environment by default. Then just make sure the SSH Server feature is added during the installation process (i think it is by default). Then you can just use PuTTy or similar to connect to a terminal session remotely for anything you may need outside of the WebUI

 

If you go this route and you want docker, i'd personally install Docker after Ubuntu is installed, to get the official docker.io rather than docker-ce (open source community edition). 

 

So after Ubuntu is installed, to get it up and running just run


sudo apt remove docker docker-engine docker-ce
sudo apt install docker.io
sudo apt install cockpit cockpit-docker -y
sudo systemctl start docker
sudo systemctl enable docker

You may need to allow the port through the firewall, which in Ubuntu would be


sudo ufw allow 9090/tcp

 

Everything should be installed then, and persistant through a reboot, then you can access the Cockpit UI at http://myservername:9090 

 

OK, then... I'll take this route, and mark this one as solved.
If I encounter further issues, I'll be sure to create a topic in the appropriate section.
Thank you very much for your time.

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On 9/17/2020 at 3:15 PM, n0stalghia said:

Back when I was researching stuff for my NAS build I stumbled upon a claim that FreeNAS wants a GB of RAM for every TB of storage in your system because of how ZFS works. Does this still hold true?

Assuming you aren't using de-duplication (you shouldn't be), it's not really true. You can get by with 4GB RAM as more or less a bare minimum and 8GB will run it reasonably well. 

The reason it's relatively RAM hungry is that frequently used blocks, especially metadata, are cached in RAM. 

As much as possible, ZFS tries to do random IO off of RAM (ARC) or L2ARC and then does streaming workloads off of your harddrives. Think "the harddrives do 1/5th as many seeks and spend way more of their time reading contiguous sequences". 32GB RAM and/or a 118GB optane drive makes things WAY quicker, at least compared to my old QNAP NAS with 1GB RAM and the same 4 drives (in RAID 10, as opposed to RAIDZ1, RAID10 being faster and having up to 2x the IOPS available). The more RAM the better when it comes to performance. You don't need fast stuff. From what I can tell L2ARC, even an 800p, is not quite in the same league as RAM when it comes to ZFS but it'll usually be "close enough" - I noticed in testing (prefetching enabled in L2ARC, the default of disabled has it not hurting anything) that warm but stale-ish data (so data mostly cached in L2ARC instead of ARC) actually had lower sequential read speeds (~2Gbps) than just 4 harddrives (4Gbps). I think ZFS requires something like 2 reads through ARC and possibly L2 ARC for some operations.


The learning curve for ZFS is relatively steep. After you have a feel for performance tuning though you'll have a better feel for how data is stored and transferred, at least I do now (full disclosure I did take a class or two in grad school and had some interest before hand). At some point I'll probably write a guide for others to use. 


R9 3900x; 64GB RAM | RTX 2080 | 1.5TB Optane P4800x

1TB ADATA XPG Pro 8200 SSD | 2TB Micron 1100 SSD
HD800 + SCHIIT VALI | Topre Realforce Keyboard

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On 9/18/2020 at 9:22 PM, Jarsky said:

 

Yeah if you use Ubuntu, the Ubuntu Server install has no desktop environment by default. Then just make sure the SSH Server feature is added during the installation process (i think it is by default). Then you can just use PuTTy or similar to connect to a terminal session remotely for anything you may need outside of the WebUI

 

If you go this route and you want docker, i'd personally install Docker after Ubuntu is installed, to get the official docker.io rather than docker-ce (open source community edition). 

 

So after Ubuntu is installed, to get it up and running just run


sudo apt remove docker docker-engine docker-ce
sudo apt install docker.io
sudo apt install cockpit cockpit-docker -y
sudo systemctl start docker
sudo systemctl enable docker

You may need to allow the port through the firewall, which in Ubuntu would be


sudo ufw allow 9090/tcp

 

Everything should be installed then, and persistant through a reboot, then you can access the Cockpit UI at http://myservername:9090 

 

Does Docker also install a webserver as part of the package?

 

My only experience with it is through my Synology NAS and that handles everything though the already included Synology Web Services.


Main Rig:-

Ryzen 7 3800X | Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming | 16GB Team Group Dark Pro 3600Mhz | Corsair MP600 1TB PCIe Gen 4 | Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse | Corsair H115i Platinum | WD Black 1TB | WD Green 4TB | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 650W | Asus TUF GT501 | Samsung C27HG70 1440p 144hz HDR FreeSync 2 | Windows 10 Pro X64 |

 

Server:-

Intel NUC running Server 2019 + Synology DSM218+ with 2 x 4TB Toshiba NAS Ready HDDs (RAID0)

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2 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Does Docker also install a webserver as part of the package?

 

My only experience with it is through my Synology NAS and that handles everything though the already included Synology Web Services.

 

No docker has no web interface, it's managed through the docker socket. Personally I use Portainer to manage dockers from a web interface


Spoiler

Desktop: Ryzen 7 2700x | Aorus X470 Gaming Ultra | EVGA RTX2080 Super | 32GB (4x8GB) Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 3200Mhz | Corsair H105 AIO, NZXT Sentry 3 | Corsair SP120's | 1TB Crucial P1 NVMe, 4TB WD Black | Phanteks Enthoo Pro | Corsair RM650v2 PSU | LG 32" 32GK850G Monitor | Ducky Shine 3 Keyboard, Logitech G502, MicroLab Solo 7C Speakers, Razer Goliathus Extended, X360 Controller | Windows 10 Pro | SteelSeries Siberia 350 Headphones

 

Spoiler

Server 1: Fractal Design Define R6 | Ryzen 3950x | ASRock X570 Taichi | EVGA GTX1070 FTW | 64GB (4x16GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000Mhz | Corsair RM650v2 PSU | Fractal S36 Triple AIO | 10 x 8TB HGST Ultrastar He10 (WD Whitelabel) | 500GB Aorus Gen4 NVMe | 2 x 1TB Crucial P1 NVMe | LSI 9211-8i HBA

 

Server 2: Corsair 400R | IcyDock MB998SP & MB455SPF | Seasonic Focus Plus 650w PSU | 2 x Xeon X5650's | 48GB DDR3-ECC | Asus Z8NA-D6C Motherboard | AOC-SAS2LP-MV8 | LSI MegaRAID 9271-8i | RES2SV240 SAS Expander | Samsung 840Evo 120GB | 5 x 8TB Seagate Archives | 10 x 3TB WD Red

 

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