online classes Microsoft is rumored to drop a $500 Surface Laptop this fall

[schwellmo92]

16 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

Fair point, though if the hardware inside isn't future-proof then external build quality also becomes irrelevant.

Do you have another desktop PC though?

When have you ever in your life paid $500 for a laptop that is future proof? Future proof is a gimmick even at the $3000 level nevermind $500.

 

If you use lots of storage and don't have much money you would probably need to rely on cloud storage, that's how Chromebooks works.

[pythonmegapixel]

5 hours ago, dizmo said:

Future-proof isn't a thing.

I love how using the word "future-proof" makes some computer enthusiasts so irritated - you can guarantee that if you use that word on this forum someone will moan about it.

 

Let's make a random guess and say that, in a specific person's use case, this laptop is built well enough to last 8 years.

If, 2 years down the line, the tiny SSD is full, the machine is running poorly because there's not enough RAM, and it's overheating because it's impossible to unscrew it and blow dust out of the fans (which is a problem with many Surface devices) - was there really any point in building it to last 8 years?

 

5 hours ago, dizmo said:

I do now, yes however it doesn't matter.

It DOES matter, because anything that requires storage of a lot of data, for example, can be done on there. For people who only use a laptop, they're going to have to fill up that 64GB. And don't forget there is a noticeable - though not massive - performance hit when an SSS is almost full.

 

As I say I don't believe it's actually a fundamentally bad laptop, or that nobody should buy it, I just don't believe it represents good value for money for the specs it's got.

5 hours ago, dizmo said:

I didn't when I had my laptop....which, aside from the having 128GB of storage instead of 64GB (I didn't fill it up anyway, so moot point), was probably weaker than the machine they're putting out. It had an i5 from 2012 and 4GB of RAM. Other than the RAM...which, really, was perfectly fine, if I didn't use PCs the way I do...it performed flawlessly.

I don't discount that - but that laptop surely didn't cost you $500 in the past few years?

[pythonmegapixel]

5 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

When have you ever in your life paid $500 for a laptop that is future proof? Future proof is a gimmick even at the $3000 level nevermind $500.

Please see my response to this exact comment in the post above. Perhaps "future-proof" was the wrong word to use though.

 

5 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

If you use lots of storage and don't have much money you would probably need to rely on cloud storage, that's how Chromebooks works.

But the difference is, Chrome is designed for that workflow, while Windows has it bolted on. Granted, it can be done, but there's a lot of copying stuff back and forth which isn't fun.

 

Plus Windows takes up significantly more storage than Chrome.

 

[dizmo]

9 hours ago, pythonmegapixel said:

I love how using the word "future-proof" makes some computer enthusiasts so irritated - you can guarantee that if you use that word on this forum someone will moan about it. Let's make a random guess and say that, in a specific person's use case, this laptop is built well enough to last 8 years.

If, 2 years down the line, the tiny SSD is full, the machine is running poorly because there's not enough RAM, and it's overheating because it's impossible to unscrew it and blow dust out of the fans (which is a problem with many Surface devices) - was there really any point in building it to last 8 years?

 

It DOES matter, because anything that requires storage of a lot of data, for example, can be done on there. For people who only use a laptop, they're going to have to fill up that 64GB.And don't forget there is a noticeable - though not massive - performance hit when an SSS is almost full.

As I say I don't believe it's actually a fundamentally bad laptop, or that nobody should buy it, I just don't believe it represents good value for money for the specs it's got.

 

I don't discount that - but that laptop surely didn't cost you $500 in the past few years?

It won't be overheating within 2 years just because you can't blow out the fans. In the laptop I had I did it once, 6 years in, when I replaced the battery. The SSD won't be full if you do simple things like offloading data you don't need to an external storage device. You can get a 128GB flash drive for $20. The only issue is RAM, which I already touched on as being adequate for those using it as a web device, but ideally it'd have 8GB for anyone wanting to do a little more multitasking.

 

Uh, no. You're wrong. It's almost as if you don't realize that external hard drives exist. If one needs more storage, they can simply offload on to that. And no, you won't always fill up 64GB of storage if it's your only device. Not everyone needs something that's storage intensive. Word documents, spreadsheets, etc take up very, very little space. I even did all of my business work from the laptop, and again, very little space was needed. Even video editors often edit from portable SSDs when they're on the go.

 

It also doesn't have newer processors in it. It's not like this is getting an 8 year old i5. Not only that, it's the design and build quality you're also paying for. Sure, you might be fine with a cheaper feeling device with more power, however I buy what I need in the form factor I find the most appealing.

[Nowak]

Honestly at that price point with those specs I'd rather get a Chromebook. I'd actually be able to get something better for that money.

[pythonmegapixel]

1 minute ago, dizmo said:

It won't be overheating within 2 years just because you can't blow out the fans. In the laptop I had I did it once, 6 years in, when I replaced the battery. The SSD won't be full if you do simple things like offloading data you don't need to an external storage device. You can get a 128GB flash drive for $20.

Can I have a link to that? I'm genuinely interested in buying one, if it exists.

You aren't supposed to use flash drives for long term storage of data anyway. The flash memory chips in them aren't designed for that.

 

1 minute ago, dizmo said:

The only issue is RAM, which I already touched on as being adequate for those using it as a web device, but ideally it'd have 8GB for anyone wanting to do a little more multitasking.

Just being a web device is what a Chromebook is for...

 

1 minute ago, dizmo said:

Uh, no. You're wrong. It's almost as if you don't realize that external hard drives exist. If one needs more storage, they can simply offload on to that. And no, you won't always fill up 64GB of storage if it's your only device. Not everyone needs something that's storage intensive. Word documents, spreadsheets, etc take up very, very little space. I even did all of my business work from the laptop, and again, very little space was needed.

For the record, a basic Windows installation takes up around 30GB these days, Microsoft Office itself takes up quite a bit of space thanks to Microsoft deciding that you can't just install the apps you need, you have to have the whole lot. Add a decent browser, the allowance for virtual memory and the reserved space for updates, and you probably only have 25GB left on the drive. Which is probably fine for some applications. But for most, it will be more than a little limiting.

 

1 minute ago, dizmo said:

It also doesn't have newer processors in it. It's not like this is getting an 8 year old i5. Not only that, it's the design and build quality you're also paying for. Sure, you might be fine with a cheaper feeling device with more power, however I buy what I need in the form factor I find the most appealing.

And that's an absolutely fine choice. I'm not saying that one always has to choose the best performance for the money. There absolutely are other reasons to choose a specific device. The build quality might be a redeeming quality, but that doesn't negate the fact that the specs aren't really suitable for most applications beyond basic office use in 2020.

 

The point which you don't seem to understand, is that I am not criticising anyone who buys this machine. I am just saying that it is far from the best price to performance - so if that's your concern then buy something else, once again it is absolutely fine for that not to be your concern.

[dizmo]

24 minutes ago, pythonmegapixel said:

Can I have a link to that? I'm genuinely interested in buying one, if it exists.

You aren't supposed to use flash drives for long term storage of data anyway. The flash memory chips in them aren't designed for that.

 

Just being a web device is what a Chromebook is for...

 

For the record, a basic Windows installation takes up around 30GB these days, Microsoft Office itself takes up quite a bit of space thanks to Microsoft deciding that you can't just install the apps you need, you have to have the whole lot. Add a decent browser, the allowance for virtual memory and the reserved space for updates, and you probably only have 25GB left on the drive. Which is probably fine for some applications. But for most, it will be more than a little limiting.

 

And that's an absolutely fine choice. I'm not saying that one always has to choose the best performance for the money. There absolutely are other reasons to choose a specific device. The build quality might be a redeeming quality, but that doesn't negate the fact that the specs aren't really suitable for most applications beyond basic office use in 2020.

 

The point which you don't seem to understand, is that I am not criticising anyone who buys this machine. I am just saying that it is far from the best price to performance - so if that's your concern then buy something else, once again it is absolutely fine for that not to be your concern.

There's many:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1417044-REG/samsung_muf_128db_am_samsung_duo_plus_128gb.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1507904-REG/sandisk_sdddc2_0128g_a46_ultra_dual_jump_drive.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1203369-REG/sandisk_sdcz73_128g_a46_128gb_ultra_flair_usb.html

That's just a small sample, there's many, many more.

Need more long term storage for said device? $60, 2TB.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1322074-REG/wd_wdbu6y0020bbk_wesn_2tb_elements_portable_hard.html

 

Chromebooks don't work for everyone. They wouldn't work for me. So no, that won't be a suitable substitute.

 

No, it won't be a problem for most. You seem to think that most people do a lot on their PC; they don't.

 

It's funny, you say it's a fine choice, yet right after you say it's not the best price to performance as a reason not to get it. You couldn't flip flop more.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

35 minutes ago, Nowak said:

Honestly at that price point with those specs I'd rather get a Chromebook. I'd actually be able to get something better for that money.

Nah I would get an iPad and slap a laptop case on it. It'll cost roughly the same and iPadOS does have mouse support these days. 

[Nowak]

Just now, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Nah I would get an iPad and slap a laptop case on it. It'll cost roughly the same and iPadOS does have mouse support these days. 

Pixelbook Go with a Core m3-8100Y, 8GB RAM and 64GB storage is $649. If you want something that'll be supported longer, the Acer Spin 713 starts at $629 for a Core i5-10210U, 8GB RAM and 128GB NVMe storage. Enable Linux apps on both and you're good to go tbh.

 

Neither option is that much more expensive than this rumored Surface Laptop, and both get you better specs outta the deal. The Acer even gives you a 2-in-1 form factor and a 3:2 display!

[pythonmegapixel]

35 minutes ago, dizmo said:

It's funny, you say it's a fine choice, yet right after you say it's not the best price to performance as a reason not to get it. You couldn't flip flop more.

What don't you understand about this? It's a fine choice, but there are still reasons not to get it for some. For lots of workflows, I believe those disadvantages outweigh the advantages. For others they may not. And that's fine.

 

Same with iPhones. There are loads of reasons not to buy them (locked down ecosystem, bad business practices) but for many people in the world. they are a perfectly acceptable choice.