Windows 10 Ameliorated Ordered to cease operations due to LTT video

[Quinnell]

I love how this thread has diverted from the original conversation about Windows 10 Ameliorated Edition to talking about Updating vs. Not Updating. lol

 

_{p.s.  Update your damn OS, people!}

[Delicieuxz]

Speaking from much personal experience, the chance of getting operational issues or fully bricking your system and having to reinstall everything as a result of installing Windows updates is far higher than that of having to do the same from malware.

 

If you think it's reckless to run your Windows installation without Windows updates, then it's all the more reckless to run it with Windows updates.

 

I've run OSes without any updates for up to 5 years at a time, and have never once had to reinstall things as a result, and I don't recall having any infections since at least 2013, either.

 

But pretty much every major Windows 10 update will cause issues somewhere, whether you notice them right away or not. And a few times has wrecked my OS to the point a reinstall was required. So, any time you accept a major Windows update, it's like choosing to install a virus on your PC and hope for the best.

 

Microsoft QA is absolutely garbage nowadays. And, yes, it's more reckless to update your Windows OS with Microsoft patches than it is to disable Windows Update.

[dalekphalm]

4 hours ago, Escanor said:

Knowning this is a issue makes me wonder if this is n danger to https://www.hirensbootcd.org/

Not to mention Macrium reflect has a windows pe boot disk aswell as many apps that use windows pe envoriment

Windows PE is totally different, with a different licensing model.

 

It's licensing specifically says it's for Deployment and Recovery purposes - which is exactly the kind of thing you're doing with Hirens and other WinPE based boot disks.

 

It would be a problem if Hirens came out with a version of Windows based off of WinPE that was supposed to be a general purpose permanent OS install, rather than a temporary recovery mechanism.

[Justaphysicsnerd]

On 9/6/2020 at 5:37 AM, emosun said:

LTT , if you find anything else really cool , please keep it to yourself.

This is what happens when big media outlets like L**, T** ***** etc. Try to cover projects that are not big corporate ones.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Phew.....they haven't discovered our sekrets hopefully......*cough*v*cough*chokes to death*

[piratemonkey]

On 9/5/2020 at 7:07 PM, emosun said:

LTT , if you find anything else really cool , please keep it to yourself.

Why? If it's illegal it'll eventually get a cease and desist, or other legal action. Linus only brought forth the inevitable. If it's legal, there's nothing to worry about

[asquirrel]

One more reason I'll run linux when I finally get off Windows 7. 10 can suck my nuts.

[kirashi]

On 9/6/2020 at 2:36 AM, Master Disaster said:

Microsoft built in the ability for Windows to lock unactivated users out of customisation features, almost like a trial version ... SNIP ... There's a VERY big difference from running the OS as it was provided and not activating it at all compared to modifying the OS to trick it into thinking it has been activatedOne technically breaks the EULA but only does so because MS allows it to. The other is straight up piracy.

On 9/6/2020 at 3:34 AM, jagdtigger said:

Thats the thing, there is none. You can install it and use without PD key, it wont nag about it either. You loose some customization  options but thats about it.

 

 

 

Unless you live in a country where Consumer Protection Laws stipulate that you're legally entitled to run software without a license for a certain number of days in order to evaluate it, there is no trial or evaluation period stipulated in the EULA for Windows 10 Home / Pro Retail versions.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/Useterms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm

 

The only legal way to run Windows without a valid license (backed up by proof of purchase) is to acquire Windows 10 Enterprise edition from Microsoft's own software evaluation website, after which you can run it for up to 90 days before you need to purchase a license.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows

 

On 9/9/2020 at 8:48 AM, Delicieuxz said:

... according to some posts, their modified image didn't come pre-activated but they still can't distribute the IP-holder's copyrighted work without their permission. 

https://ameliorated.info/faq.html#legal

[dalekphalm]

7 hours ago, kirashi said:

Unless you live in a country where Consumer Protection Laws stipulate that you're legally entitled to run software without a license for a certain number of days in order to evaluate it, there is no trial or evaluation period stipulated in the EULA for Windows 10 Home / Pro Retail versions.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/Useterms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm

 

The only legal way to run Windows without a valid license (backed up by proof of purchase) is to acquire Windows 10 Enterprise edition from Microsoft's own software evaluation website, after which you can run it for up to 90 days before you need to purchase a license.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows

 

https://ameliorated.info/faq.html#legal

Yeah people keep claiming that the ISO is inactivated and it's up to the user to decide how to use it (activate or not, etc), and that's simply not the case. Their own FAQ dismisses that baseless claim.

 

That one legal disclaimer is all the evidence Microsoft needs to be justified in their actions of taking it down. That's straight up a cracked and activated version of Windows. They're basically washing their hands of it and saying "Well it's up to you to make sure you own a legit key".

 

The DIY guide is different (assuming they don't go into detail on how to activate a generic key and crack Windows), as that places the onus directly onto the end user to ensure things are legally squared away.

[atxcyclist]

On 9/11/2020 at 4:26 AM, Delicieuxz said:

Speaking from much personal experience, the chance of getting operational issues or fully bricking your system and having to reinstall everything as a result of installing Windows updates is far higher than that of having to do the same from malware.

 

If you think it's reckless to run your Windows installation without Windows updates, then it's all the more reckless to run it with Windows updates.

 

I've run OSes without any updates for up to 5 years at a time, and have never once had to reinstall things as a result, and I don't recall having any infections since at least 2013, either.

 

But pretty much every major Windows 10 update will cause issues somewhere, whether you notice them right away or not. And a few times has wrecked my OS to the point a reinstall was required. So, any time you accept a major Windows update, it's like choosing to install a virus on your PC and hope for the best.

 

Microsoft QA is absolutely garbage nowadays. And, yes, it's more reckless to update your Windows OS with Microsoft patches than it is to disable Windows Update.

 

You know what actually sucks though? Identity theft. The updates exist for a reason, to keep your system secure. You think having to reinstall your software is bad, wait until a hacker roots your computer and you have a $200k loan taken out in your name. 

 

Hackers exist, and since no one is willing to throw them into a volcano as a warning, updating your computer is important. Also, backup your system regularly, and if it gets bricked by an update you can restore it. I've never had an update brick a computer though.

[Roswell]

On 9/11/2020 at 5:26 AM, Delicieuxz said:

If you think it's reckless to run your Windows installation without Windows updates, then it's all the more reckless to run it with Windows updates.

Sure, if you're someone with no money or assets then you can say that potential software glitches are more reckless than avoiding patches for 5 years. 

 

That said, back in the adult world where financial consequences matter, running for 5 years without security updates is absolutely moronic.

[atxcyclist]

40 minutes ago, rrubberr said:

"You must be A BABY if you don't download Windows updates REGULARLY. Further, if you don't install Windows updates, your social security number, banking information, and all personal information will MAGICALLY be beamed to everyone!"

 

Yeah or nothing will happen and you'll just be using an older version of Windows lol, even at an enterprise level

Everybody gangsta until they're a victim of identity theft.

 

Oddly enough, the only people I know that have had otherwise inexplicable identity theft are the types to ignore OS and antivirus updates. It's probably just an amazing series of coincidences though, and not an indicator of how important security updates are...

[atxcyclist]

2 minutes ago, rrubberr said:

It literally is, that's what we in The Biz (TM) call anecdotal evidence!

Except there's plenty of evidence demonstrating that leaving your computer unprotected invites identity theft, so whatever "Biz" you're in might want to take another look.

[emosun]

31 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Except there's plenty of evidence demonstrating that leaving your computer unprotected invites identity theft, so whatever "Biz" you're in might want to take another look.

The tens of millions of machines using windows 7 disagree

But it sure is fun watching people who don't have windows restore anymore run around in circles about updates.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, rrubberr said:

Yeah or nothing will happen and you'll just be using an older version of Windows lol, even at an enterprise level

Mmmm no, enterprises certainly do Windows Updates and buy extended support (which is required now for updates). Those that do not are not "enterprises" and are just some business doing their thing choosing cost of business over potential security concern.

 

Because the last thing we need, or anyone like us needs, is a security breach where the root cause is traced back to an unpatched system that has exposed confidential research data and/or personal information. Such a breach in real cost and reputation cost, both these alone individually, far exceed the cost and effort of keeping systems up to date properly and purchasing extended support licenses.

 

We still have Windows Server 2008 R2 systems and some Windows 7 systems but they all have extended support and are patched.

[Roswell]

2 hours ago, rrubberr said:

"You must be A BABY if you don't download Windows updates REGULARLY. Further, if you don't install Windows updates, your social security number, banking information, and all personal information will MAGICALLY be beamed to everyone!"

 

Yeah or nothing will happen and you'll just be using an older version of Windows lol, even at an enterprise level

The level of ignorance here is pretty strong. 

[leadeater]

22 minutes ago, rrubberr said:

A preventative measure =/= an observed issue. In the eternal words of SuperMicro "Please do not upgrade UNLESS your system has a related issue." Emphasis not added.

What because Supermicro represents all software and hardware vendors in the market? Hell no, they specifically make cheaper hardware with much worse QA on their firmware releases to keep the cost down. I get emails from HPE every time they release firmware for anything and the advice is, and will always be, install as soon as possible. But this doesn't really have anything to do with Windows updates so 

 

Edit:

And yes when it comes to security a preventative measure is equal to an observed issue because you cannot go back in time and secure a breached system, it's too late and has already happened. It's not something that can be fixed, the only possible actions for such a thing is mitigation and nothing else. If you are observing a security breach then you have already failed.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, rrubberr said:

I guess I haven't been exposed to enough "LifeLock (TM)" fear mongering, or the wire demons haven't decided to infect my system yet...?

Neither are you a high value target with over 30,000 users that has to provide network services for managed and unmanaged devices that also hosts internally and externally accessible services.

 

Like sure you can go basically forever running Windows 7 on a computer at home that only ever gets used for playing games and very rare web browsing and pretty well never get a virus but you're only protected because you're behind a NAT and there aren't other systems and other users on your network that are a risk to you.

 

When your risk is low and the potential impact is low it is going to seem pointless to go through the effort, if your risk is not low and potential impact is also not low that is a different story.

 

We process credit card payments, we pay salaries and purchase orders, we run open and closed contract tenders, we have medical data (research and also client data from medical center services), as well as that mentioned research data (because we are a university, it's our core thing we do). There are legal requirements we have to meet, it's not even a choice and we get audited every year and consequences of not updating (outside of security risk) is for things like losing our ability to process credit cards or funding being denied or reduced or being in breach of a contract. Our systems are patched because it is not just the proper thing to do but we have to, there is no choice here and that is not any different to any other enterprise business.

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, winning.exe said:

This is a consumer technology forum. Probably not too applicable to the guy who started this by saying he runs un-updated Windows 7 or whatever the case was.

True, just he mentioned enterprises so was like, mm not sure about that since I work in one. It's a lot easier when you only have to worry about yourself, just gotta remember that also when giving advice.

 

Honestly it's not like Windows Updates are just waiting and ready to make your computer explode, just don't have it set for immediate install as soon as released and that covers 99.999% of the problems that have existed.

[GoodBytes]

Now with work from home being a thing, this is even more important to keep all your systems in your network updated. Not only for your job (as you are ultimately responsible), but also others on your home network (as again, you are responsible for company data). If you have a family remember working from home, despite you going to school and playing games on your system... you are a serious security concern if you are not up-to-date.

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

snip

Since the people behind the project have already said its not the case, can we get the click bait title changed?

[jagdtigger]

9 hours ago, Vitamanic said:

That said, back in the adult world where financial consequences matter, running for 5 years without security updates windows is absolutely moronic.

FIFY....

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

FIFY....

Business world pretty much runs entirely on Windows above networking and hypervisor layers so it's really not moronic, but comments like these 

 

Good luck finding non Windows replacements for all the core software that a business needs that is actually supported, and by supported I mean gets the necessary updates to support things like tax code changes and employment law which change every year.

 

Trying to push Linux etc in to the corporate world to replace everything, even a large part, just isn't possible. No amount of idealism can change that.

 

You can do things like use enterprise storage arrays that directly run NAS/SMB shares instead of Windows file servers, run DNS/DHCP on networking equipment or Linux, use SaaS for any web hosting that is possible (which proves more difficult than you'd expect). But man the amount of things that only run on Windows and also use Java, geez.

 

Smaller companies have it much easier and can almost run entirely using SaaS and cloud now days, that ability slowly goes away as you get bigger when your business itself gets more complicated and regulatory compliance gets harder and harder. A lot of the SaaS products just can't do what is required, but they aren't trying to either.

 

But I guess having a shit-dig at Windows/Microsoft is just too popular rather than a more measured analysis of the situation. Not that even the "in the news Windows Updates issues" are actually that wide spread and disrupt business anyway, squeaky wheel syndrome.

[jagdtigger]

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

Business world pretty much runs entirely on Windows above networking and hypervisor layers so it's really not moronic, but comments like these

Everyone jumps into the well, will you jump after them?  Just because everyone uses it it wont make it a good SW,  far from it.

[emosun]

15 hours ago, Vitamanic said:

The level of ignorance here is pretty strong. 

"how dare you drive a car that's not new"

"i dont care if you know more about old cars than i do , my experience is limited with old cars therefor you are wrong"

"do not try and change your own wheel , call the dealer"

*google translate

[emosun]

I have to admit , I'm quite enjoying that the "always update" people don;t actually relize theres a big difference between managing 100 machines in an office building with inexperienced users vs a single computer sitting at a house on no network.

basically the two sides are clashing and not figuring out that the two situations are different and therefor have no relation to each other. lol