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specialistHUN

i7 4790k overheating for no apparent reason

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Hello everybody,

 

my best friend just upgraded his computer and decided to give me his old hardware because he knows that I can't afford anything new for my PC. I know that the 4790k is an outdated chip (just watched Steve's new video on it) but it's still an upgrade to my old 3570k, low-end Z75 mobo and 8GB of RAM, plus it was for free, so why not install it?

 

Next to the CPU itself, I got an ASRock Z97 Extreme 4/3.1 motherboard and a 2x8GB Corsair Vengeance Pro 2400MHz DDR3 kit.

 

After installing this "new" hardware, I did a few system stability tests and it quickly turned out that my CPU is overheating. After 5 seconds of AIDA64 CPU stress test, my temps jumped up to 100°C on one core, and about 90-95°C on the rest. The test reported 4-8% thermal throttling and my CPU core clock was staying anywhere between 4 and 4.2 GHz with some split second dips to 3.8-3.9 GHz. IIRC 100°C is below TJ max but I didn't want to cook my new, much appreciated hardware and stopped the testing after 5 minutes.

I started to look at my idle temps which were quite high as well, about 40°C sitting on the Windows start screen and oddly about 55°C when I'm in the BIOS. The temps will start slowly creeping up by one degree at a time after 15-30 minutes.

 

My CPU cooler is a Cooler Master 412S with the stock non-PWM CM fan replaced by an Arctic F12 Pro PWM that has quite an aggressive fan curve (I wear headphones, don't care about them sounding like a gas turbine).

It ran my old i5 3570k (non-OC) at about 30°C idle and 55-60°C whilst gaming (never did a 100% load stress test though).

My friend has a NH-U12S which allowed him to run this same CPU with an all-core 4.4GHz overclock at ~70°C.

 

I know that the 4790k is a hot chip and my CM412S has worse performance than my friend's Noctua, but I still find my temps unrealistically high. I was looking at quite a few forums and CPU/cooler tests and it seems like that even the Intel stock cooler performs better than my cooler. A CM Hyper 212 EVO, which has comparable performance to my cooler, reaches about 85°C on a stress test according to one of the reviews I found.

 

I thought that maybe I installed my cooler incorrectly so I removed it, replaced the thermal compound (the one CM included in the box), re-installed the heatsink, no change in temps. Then I repeated this again, this time also reinstalling the cooler's back plate because I read on a forum that an incorrectly installed back plate might cause issues, no change in temps. I removed my Arctic PWM fan and added CM's stock "silent" fan just out of curiosity, no change in temps. I removed the case's side panel for better airflow, no change. My ambient temp is 22°C.

I started to mess around in software, I put my fans on maximum speed, no change; I put them on auto, no change. I started to look around the BIOS to see if maybe something's wrong there, but the only setting I changed after my friend reset his BIOS before giving it to me, was enabling XMP. The BIOS is running the latest "beta" version 1.71 that was released back in 2018 as a fix to Meltdown. All the core clock and voltage settings are on Auto, nothing has been touched.
I get the following readings in BIOS as per the H/W Monitor:
CPU Input Voltage: +1.792 V
CPU Vcore: +1.048 V

CPU Cache Voltage: +1.232 V

System Agent Voltage: +1.112V

CPU Analog IO Voltage: +1.168 V

CPU Digital IO Voltage: +1.208 V

Based on my search these are pretty much the standard values on this chip. Disabling XMP didn't change anything either.

 

So to sum it up, I believe that my CPU should not run this piping hot and other reviews seem to confirm that, but seemingly there's nothing I did wrong and all of my remediate actions were unsuccessful.
My last idea is to buy a better cooler, but I'm not exactly full of cash. I was looking at the Cryorig H5 Universal, which according to some tests should handle even a medium OC on this CPU, but I'm still finding it hard to believe that my current cooling setup is this inadequate (especially when the stock cooler seems to perform better based on other forum threads and tests).

 

Any idea what could be wrong or what else should I try? My main concern is that what if I spend 50-60€ on a new, better cooler and get the same problem. I know that the CPU worked just fine a month ago in another system...

Any help is much appreciated, thanks!

Regards,
specialist

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Posted · Original PosterOP
12 minutes ago, Terminaturion said:


1st try reseting the Bios.

2nd Which cooler are you using?

I reset the bios settings, did everything short of a CMOS clear.
And as I wrote in the thread, I have a CM412S with an Arctic F12 Pro PWM fan.

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Just now, specialistHUN said:

I reset the bios settings, did everything short of a CMOS clear.
And as I wrote in the thread, I have a CM412S with an Arctic F12 Pro PWM fan.

Is your mounting pressure fine? And is the cpu picked up correctly by your MB

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Posted · Original PosterOP
30 minutes ago, Terminaturion said:

Is your mounting pressure fine? And is the cpu picked up correctly by your MB

Yes and yes. I already remounted the cooler twice, everything seems to be alright, the paste is spread out evenly in a nice circle. And both the BIOS and Windows picks it up as a 4790k.

 

Yet I keep coming back to the cooler. I've just noticed something. Even after letting the AIDA stress test run for 10 minutes and technically boiling my CPU at 100°C, the cooler is blowing out cold air and the heatpipes are cold to the touch, even close to the socket. 
So something seems to not transmit the heat properly, but I checked out the cooler twice already, it's mounted fine, it's firm, the screws are tightened, there's no wiggle, no play to the thing, it's seems to sit flush against the CPU. 
I really can't wrap my head around it.
All I can think of that maybe the CPU's own thermal compound gone wrong? Maybe I should delid the thing? It's driving me nuts because this is the second day that I can't use my computer because of this.

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Why are you so sure it should be be running hot?

An old cpu with old tim. Mine hit 90’s under a custom loop. 
Id recommend delidding and putting new tim on it. 
Or lower the voltage or a better cooler. 


Main RIg Corsair Air 540, I7 8700k, ASUS ROG Strix Z370-H, G.Skill TridentZ 16GB, EVGA 1080TI SC Black, EVGA 850 GQ, Acer xG270HU 2560x1440@144hz

 

Spare RIg Corsair Air 540, I7 4770K, Asus Maximus VI Extreme, G.Skill Ares 32Gb, EVGA 1080sc & 1060 SSC, Corsair CX850M, Acer KG251Q 1920x1080@240hz 

 

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How old is your CPU cooler? You wrote you used the included thermal paste. The stuff that comes with the cooler is already not the highest quality and it does go bad after a while. If you use expired thermal paste it's possible that your cooler isn't able to properly take in the heat from the CPU and thus can't cool as well as it should. How did it perform in your friend's system and what temps did they get? If they didn't have the overheating I'd try ordering some new thermal paste.


My Build:

Spoiler

CPU: i7 4770k GPU: GTX 780 Direct CUII Motherboard: Asus Maximus VI Hero SSD: 840 EVO 250GB HDD: 2xSeagate 2 TB PSU: EVGA Supernova G2 650W

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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 hours ago, Mick Naughty said:

Why are you so sure it should be be running hot?

An old cpu with old tim. Mine hit 90’s under a custom loop. 
Id recommend delidding and putting new tim on it. 
Or lower the voltage or a better cooler. 

I came to a similar conclusion that maybe a delidding would help. I know a guy who has the tools and does it so I will send it over. Even if ultimately something else ends up being the problem (other than a broken CPU lol), a fresh tim would only do good.

 

1 hour ago, Centurius said:

How old is your CPU cooler? You wrote you used the included thermal paste. The stuff that comes with the cooler is already not the highest quality and it does go bad after a while. If you use expired thermal paste it's possible that your cooler isn't able to properly take in the heat from the CPU and thus can't cool as well as it should. How did it perform in your friend's system and what temps did they get? If they didn't have the overheating I'd try ordering some new thermal paste.

I bought that cooler 5 years ago but it never crossed my mind that the paste could expire in that tube. To be honest, my i5 3570k had the same paste on since then, I never got myself to replace the paste as the temps remained pretty much the same throughout the years. When I got the tube out two days ago, the paste coming out seemed fine, it didn't separate or look watery etc. and when I removed the cooler from my i5, the 5 years old paste was still spreadable.
But next week I'll go and get some newer, better quality paste just to be sure.

I also took a picture of the paste spread yesterday after I removed the cooler the first time, assuming that I didn't install it correctly.
I'm far from an expert but this doesn't look bad to me, correct me if I'm wrong though. I used Linus' uncooked grain of rice method and tightened the screws in a cross pattern.
 

20200904_153548.jpg

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2 hours ago, specialistHUN said:

snip

looks fine for me, the fact it's spread like this prove the pressure was not really bad. maybe a lack of pressure on the upper left.  but anyway, the die area is fully covered.

so, yes, deliding and liquid metal between ihs and die should fix it :)

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3 minutes ago, whaka said:

looks fine for me, the fact it's spread like this prove the pressure was not really bad. maybe a lack of pressure on the upper left.  but anyway, the die area is fully covered.

so, yes, deliding and liquid metal between ihs and die should fix it :)

Before possibly doing something to your CPU that could permanently destroy it if done wrong, and as you mentioned you don't have the money to get a new part if it breaks, ask the person who gave it to you how it ran in their system. If the CPU ran with normal temperatures recently there is no reason to assume the TIM is the culprit why it's overheating now.


My Build:

Spoiler

CPU: i7 4770k GPU: GTX 780 Direct CUII Motherboard: Asus Maximus VI Hero SSD: 840 EVO 250GB HDD: 2xSeagate 2 TB PSU: EVGA Supernova G2 650W

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Posted · Original PosterOP
22 hours ago, Centurius said:

Before possibly doing something to your CPU that could permanently destroy it if done wrong, and as you mentioned you don't have the money to get a new part if it breaks, ask the person who gave it to you how it ran in their system. If the CPU ran with normal temperatures recently there is no reason to assume the TIM is the culprit why it's overheating now.

My friend reported no thermal related problems, but he has a Noctua cooler.

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