Judge delivers split decision on Epic vs Apple - more positive than negative for Epic

[Trik'Stari]

2 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

 

 

If that's the case, then I'd wonder why people use iPhones. But what about with one of these methods?

 

https://7labs.io/mobile/iphone/install-apps-without-app-store.html

https://drfone.wondershare.com/iphone-tips/how-to-install-apps-on-iphone-without-itunes.html

You mistakenly assume most apple users know enough about their devices to be able to do those things, let alone have the very idea of installing something outside of the app store in the first place.

[Vishera]

2 hours ago, GolDNenex said:

Monopoly? When you look at the shares between android / ios you may have doubts. When you buy iphone you know what to expect. Often those who are not happy with this kind of "practice" are not concerned.

It is the only app store on iOS,so it's a monopoly on the iOS market.

In contrast Android has dozens of app stores so Google is not a monopoly on the Android market.

2 hours ago, Den-Fi said:

Daily reminder that no company cares about you.

It's all about their interests:

3 hours ago, Vishera said:

Well,that was expected since a retaliatory reaction to a lawsuit is illegal,and the Fortnite app was removed before Epic filed the lawsuit.

I hope Apple's Monopolistic behavior will be stopped by the anti-trust laws they violate.

But remember that Epic are only doing that because it serves their interests,not paying Apple to have higher profit margins.

So Apple's monopolistic behavior and Epic's breach of contract are both violation of the law at the end of the day.

 

2 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

So anyway, nothing at all really happened and it’s the same as before. Great work.

That wasn't the verdict of the lawsuit,it's just a court order that prevents a retaliatory reaction from Apple.

[Jet_ski]

Wouldn’t it be awesome if the judge rips all of them, the plaintiff and the defendants, a new one? They all charge developers 30% fees and force them into a deal.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

4 hours ago, GolDNenex said:

Its harder to install a app without the app store on ios than on android. You need to jailbreak your phone and it can be pretty hard on some ios version/phone (for example my iphone 5 its a 32bits board and since the 5s(?) its 64bits so i can't use modern jailbreak tool and old one are hard to find). I don't see epic asking these players to do this.

No... Cydia doesn't need a jail break.

[YT_DomDaBomb20]

Fortnite doesn’t work on jailbroken devices to “prevent cheating” it’s on there website about iOS device compatibility

[schwellmo92]

5 hours ago, Nayr438 said:

As far as I am aware, you can install the app using the files app, it will give a error about being untrusted and unusable, then you go to General->Device Management->App Developer Name-> Trust Developer, then you can launch the app like normal.

 

Or does the app have to meet some specific criteria for this to work? I had to load a app on my old iPhone this way for a company I work for as it wasn't available in Apples App store.

 

I'm not too familiar with Apples devices and policies.

That’s only for Dev/Test. Apple will revoke developer accounts if they find out you are doing this for production versions of your apps. If you have an enterprise developer account you can do it within the same company only, not with the public.

[thechinchinsong]

4 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

You mistakenly assume most apple users know enough about their devices to be able to do those things, let alone have the very idea of installing something outside of the app store in the first place.

I mean I fell like that's true for most of the Android user-base as well. I'd be interested to see statistics on how many Android users use apps outside the google play store and how often they do so (excluding obvious things like Amazon's app store and other default "app store" options individual manufacturers have).

[Trik'Stari]

14 minutes ago, thechinchinsong said:

I mean I fell like that's true for most of the Android user-base as well. I'd be interested to see statistics on how many Android users use apps outside the google play store and how often they do so (excluding obvious things like Amazon's app store and other default "app store" options individual manufacturers have).

I'd further that by wondering how many of those that do use apps outside of the app store, are former apple users.

 

I personally know at least 3 people who use apps outside of the android app store. I personally know not a single apple user who does, or even that knows it's possibly (or mentioned as such in work conversation).

 

At least one of those apple users is going to school for an IT security degree, and doesn't understand why I laugh at him for exclusively using apple devices, or why I say I would immediately trash the resume of any apple user applying for a security job.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, thechinchinsong said:

I mean I fell like that's true for most of the Android user-base as well. I'd be interested to see statistics on how many Android users use apps outside the google play store and how often they do so (excluding obvious things like Amazon's app store and other default "app store" options individual manufacturers have).

I think it's a fairly safe bet that practically speaking no one does for iphone and very few for google.  In the context of consumer trust and competition, the arguments rest on what the average user knows and does.  Not what tech enthusiasts and hackers can do.   developer and corporate accounts are not relevant to consumer markets. 

[poochyena]

I don't understand what legal ground there is in saying apple has to sell every app under the sun. Apple has a right to not sell something in their store just like every other store.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, poochyena said:

I don't understand what legal ground there is in saying apple has to sell every app under the sun. Apple has a right to not sell something in their store just like every other store.

Imagine if microsoft did that with windows? 

 

Preventing companies from controlling other business is illegal.

 

 

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, poochyena said:

I don't understand what legal ground there is in saying apple has to sell every app under the sun. Apple has a right to not sell something in their store just like every other store.

Maybe a better way to put it, the problem is not with their app store or what they do with the app store, the problem is they don't permit iphone owners or app developers to go anywhere else.

 

 

[Kisai]

9 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

No, there is no sideloading on iOS.

 

There is on Android where you have to check the "Allow Unknown Sources" box in the settings.

They could always make it a HTML5 app.

[captain_to_fire]

10 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

People could still download Fortnite for iOS from a source other than the iOS store, if Epic wishes to make it available

That would require jailbreaking. 

[RejZoR]

11 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

 

 

If that's the case, then I'd wonder why people use iPhones. But what about with one of these methods?

 

https://7labs.io/mobile/iphone/install-apps-without-app-store.html

https://drfone.wondershare.com/iphone-tips/how-to-install-apps-on-iphone-without-itunes.html

Because just like on Android, 99% of people only download apps from the official app store. People sideloading shit are really in a tiny minority. Plus, chances of downloading some modified malicious junk becomes incredibly small where sideloading it's all unknown unless you're downloading APK from official webpage, if they offer one. Like for example Vivaldi browser or ProtonMail app.

[Mark Kaine]

12 hours ago, GolDNenex said:

Monopoly? When you look at the shares between android / ios you may have doubts. When you buy iphone you know what to expect. Often those who are not happy with this kind of "practice" are not concerned.

Yeah, but this is America.  Where a TOS is the "law"... *rollseyes*

 

 

Also I like how in these threads people just throw around made up  % without any source whatever... 

 

 

99%!  Just to win an Internet argument apparently. 

 

 

I mean you said 99%! then everything else you said is probably true also (lol)

 

No, in reality it removes any basis of  discussion because it's clear you have an agenda and discussion is futile. 

 

 

 

 

[thechinchinsong]

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

I think it's a fairly safe bet that practically speaking no one does for iphone and very few for google.  In the context of consumer trust and competition, the arguments rest on what the average user knows and does.  Not what tech enthusiasts and hackers can do.   developer and corporate accounts are not relevant to consumer markets. 

What I imagine is that tech enthusiasts and hackers with sideload and root phones regardless of how "open" or "closed" a phone ecosystem is.

[Doobeedoo]

Not too surprising so far. Banning UE would be quite bad. Even though it's about mobile, what would they be left, Unity hah. 

[Vishera]

10 hours ago, mr moose said:

I think it's a fairly safe bet that practically speaking no one does for iphone and very few for google.  In the context of consumer trust and competition, the arguments rest on what the average user knows and does.  Not what tech enthusiasts and hackers can do.   developer and corporate accounts are not relevant to consumer markets. 

I do that all the time,I disabled the Play Store and all Google services on my phone and blocked it's tracking with my strict firewall rules on the phone.

So i have tracking free life on my phone.

It's great that there are dozens of different Android app store to choose from.

And i think that you underestimate the amount of people that use third party stores on Android.

If there was no demand for it those stores they wouldn't exist.

[poochyena]

16 hours ago, mr moose said:

Imagine if microsoft did that with windows? 

i'd imagine they'd have a lot fewer users

16 hours ago, mr moose said:

Preventing companies from controlling other business is illegal.

that isn't being done here.

16 hours ago, mr moose said:

the problem is they don't permit iphone owners or app developers to go anywhere else.

they do, they can go to android.

[ravenshrike]

On 8/25/2020 at 1:48 PM, Delicieuxz said:

The split-decision ruling in this case, to me, appears to favour Epic, as there's no major negative consequence for them.

TROs are stupidly easy to get. The fact that they managed to whiff on their primary claim means that things are much more up in the air.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, poochyena said:

 

that isn't being done here.

It is, apple are controlling what apps it allows ios users can install and what apps developers can sell.  Apple does not own your phone or the right to dictate what software you run on it, much less do they own the right to deny or force a software vendor to use their store to sell software.

 

2 hours ago, poochyena said:

they do, they can go to android.

Not a valid argument, you can't expect anyone to buy a new phone just to buy software.   Again imagine if you had to buy a new desktop because you wanted software that was only on mac, or linux, or windows?  Its a crap argument and the reasons it is crap is also the reason it is a monopoly for apple to limit ios to their app store.

 

[poochyena]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

apple are controlling what apps it allows ios users can install and what apps developers can sell.

They aren't controlling that any more or less than Amazon controls what amazon users buy and who can sell on their platform.

 

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

Apple does not own your phone or the right to dictate what software you run on it, much less do they own the right to deny or force a software vendor to use their store to sell software.

they don't dictate that. you can download or not download whatever software you want that will work on the device. You aren't being forced to download or not download certain software. There are plenty of things I can't buy on amazon, for example.

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

Not a valid argument, you can't expect anyone to buy a new phone just to buy software.

I don't. I expect people to buy what best suit their needs.

 

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

Again imagine if you had to buy a new desktop because you wanted software that was only on mac, or linux, or windows?

I wouldn't. Thats exactly how gaming consoles work. I just don't buy them.

[mr moose]

56 minutes ago, poochyena said:

They aren't controlling that any more or less than Amazon controls what amazon users buy and who can sell on their platform.

Amazon don't lock their customers to only buying from amazon. Apple are locking consumers from buying from any other store.   Why are you people being so intentionally ignorant of that fact? 

56 minutes ago, poochyena said:

they don't dictate that. you can download or not download whatever software you want that will work on the device. You aren't being forced to download or not download certain software. There are plenty of things I can't buy on amazon, for example.

I don't. I expect people to buy what best suit their needs.

They absolutely do, they dictate what apps have to include and what they can't include, They dictate that if you use an iphone you can't get software from anywhere but the app store.  That is dictating what software they can and can't buy.  you can only buy what they permit in the app store, you can't buy anything from anywhere else.

56 minutes ago, poochyena said:

I wouldn't. Thats exactly how gaming consoles work. I just don't buy them.

But it seems you are happy to advise others to do just that.  You wouldn't buy a new device because your device was locked to one store, but you argue other people should do it so you can rationalize your argument. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do I have to pay for the rest of the post?