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CPotter

Does your PC Need This??

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I think Betteridge's law of headlines applies for most people. Together with the non-descript thumbnail, this will be a difficult video to find in the future :( 

Most people would probably be fine with hardware encoding, using for example an NVENC encoder.

 

Although a capture card can be easier. Or can be harder, if you want to still play at 144Hz or something.

 

P.S. I miss capture cards with S-Video input :(


"We're all in this together, might as well be friends" Tom, Toonami.

Sorry if my post seemed rude, that is never my intention.

"Why do we suffer a lifetime for a moment of happiness?" - Anonymous

 

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18 minutes ago, Miracle Nachos said:

 

Why's the contrast all over the place between shots?

I've noticed it in a few videos recently, it seems like the sections with Linus talking behind the desk seem to be undersaturated compared to the B-roll footage

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I am kind of disappointed that they did not address the elephant in the room and the thing that every gamer wants those cards to do but actually they dont... ok to be fair linus swiftly mentioned it when the referred to capture devices that record to a memory card for like a couple of seconds. 

 

 

None of those expensive devices does the video processing on its own... it works only as a bridge from your video source to your computer. 

 

 

Meaning when you game your computer performance (FPS for example) is going to take a hit simply because CPU resources are redirected towards processing the video from your capture card... 

 

It is essentially not that useful since most gamers I know or see on forums want to buy such a card exactly so that they avoid having their CPU resources drained from OBS for example...

 

while the reality is that its the same thing as using a capturing software like OBS only difference is that you have to pay for a capture card...

 

either by using software to capture your gaming session or using this card there is no critical difference in terms of how much your system is going to suffer for processing the video of the game you try to capture. 

 

And its not only that Linus doesn't mention this what disappointed even more is that the "after taste" of this video is that "hey if you are a gamer you may want his, its shipped with gamer PCs as well and prices are ok for full HD... " 

 

It makes much more sense to buy a more expensive CPU and avoid a capture card or even buy a cheap 2nd computer and just use that to capture your videos. 

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I'm not entirely sure the point of this video. Obviously it's sponsored so great? But there could have been so much more.

 

I was eating dinner throughout, but did you not even mention anything about the benefits of a second streaming PC? I might've missed it.

 

This could have been a fantastic opportunity to measure the latency or benefit of having a second PC and doing something fun. Instead it seems like it was just strictly in the confines of whatever sponsorship was agreed with no real creative direction at all. 

 

I feel myself always complaining about Sponsored videos because half the time, especially with the Monday.com ones they're just lazy.

 

Also, the latency test between the USB capture card.... is that accurate? Like, I've used those a handful of times, rightfully so it was a HD PVR that I used last, so it might just have been that, but usually you plug something into it, you can tell there is lag, you're saying there's basically none at all? That doesn't sit right with when I've used them before. Maybe it's gotten massively better? If Linus can tell there is lag when using Game Streaming services like Stadia, he should 100% tell there is lag with those. But again, maybe it's massively better than the Dazzle / HDPR days.


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3 minutes ago, papajo said:

I am kind of disappointed that they did not address the elephant in the room and the thing that every gamer wants those cards to do but actually they dont... ok to be fair linus swiftly mentioned it when the referred to capture devices that record to a memory card for like a couple of seconds. 

 

 

None of those expensive devices does the video processing on its own... it works only as a bridge from your video source to your computer. 

 

 

Meaning when you game your computer performance (FPS for example) is going to take a hit simply because CPU resources are redirected towards processing the video from your capture card... 

 

It is essentially not that useful since most gamers I know or see on forums want to buy such a card exactly so that they avoid having their CPU resources drained from OBS for example...

 

while the riality its the same thing... either by using software to capture your gaming session or using this card there is no critical difference in terms of how much your system is going to suffer for processing the video of the game you try to capture. 

Actually, this is an insanely good point to make. I always assumed these 250 dollar devices were doing the processing, but all it does is just pick up a video feed.

 

Why not go into how you can setup an NGINX RTMP Capture feed on a network and just pass that in. I used to use an old x5530 server on eBay, cost me £150, had 2 processors and 64GB of ram, loaded the thing up and just set it to encode my video feed from my main pc (Which pushed via OBS) to this server and then onto twitch. Was an amazing solution and worked 10x better than these capture cards. (For the situation, as Linus said Cameras etc will be different)


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1 minute ago, XenZibe said:

Actually, this is an insanely good point to make. I always assumed these 250 dollar devices were doing the processing, but all it does is just pick up a video feed.

 

Why not go into how you can setup an NGINX RTMP Capture feed on a network and just pass that in. I used to use an old x5530 server on eBay, cost me £150, had 2 processors and 64GB of ram, loaded the thing up and just set it to encode my video feed from my main pc (Which pushed via OBS) to this server and then onto twitch. Was an amazing solution and worked 10x better than these capture cards. (For the situation, as Linus said Cameras etc will be different)

Yea it's sad unfortunately the bigger a channel gets the more it's potential for shilling and obscuring/twisting/manipulating reality for the sake of pleasing sponsors becomes a factor so it's always wise to not just accept whatever you see from big youtube channels as being the truth... the good old times of big tech websites actually educating people on tech has gone now its more on saying "White lies" or "hiding parts of the truth" in order to push for PR (so that you get test samples and sponsorship)or plain out advertise. 

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12 minutes ago, papajo said:

Yea it's sad unfortunately the bigger a channel gets the more it's potential for shilling and obscuring/twisting/manipulating reality for the sake of pleasing sponsors becomes a factor so it's always wise to not just accept whatever you see from big youtube channels as being the truth... the good old times of big tech websites actually educating people on tech has gone now its more on saying "White lies" or "hiding parts of the truth" in order to push for PR (so that you get test samples and sponsorship)or plain out advertise. 

I mean Gamers Nexus is still pretty good for that. But yeah it's definitely not great to see them ignoring non-hardware options


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18 minutes ago, papajo said:

I am kind of disappointed that they did not address the elephant in the room and the thing that every gamer wants those cards to do but actually they dont... ok to be fair linus swiftly mentioned it when the referred to capture devices that record to a memory card for like a couple of seconds. 

really? i'm pretty sure Linus explicitly said that capture cards "are used to record EXTERNAL sources, like a game console, or a camera" within the first 30 seconds of the video.

 

and that's really the purpose of these capture cards: capture video feed from game consoles and cameras. if you just want to stream your computer, you don't need these cards.

 

what I found disappointing, is that Linus failed to mention that for PC recording/streaming, the primary bottleneck for any competent system isn't the encoding part, but the RENDERING part. rendering refers to scene composition, and is run on your GPU core. if your game is stressing your GPU too much, you WILL start dropping frames, and no amount of NVENC/hardware encoders will help you.

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10 minutes ago, moriz1 said:

really? i'm pretty sure Linus explicitly said that capture cards "are used to record EXTERNAL sources, like a game console, or a camera" within the first 30 seconds of the video.

 

and that's really the purpose of these capture cards: capture video feed from game consoles and cameras. if you just want to stream your computer, you don't need these cards.

 

what I found disappointing, is that Linus failed to mention that for PC recording/streaming, the primary bottleneck for any competent system isn't the encoding part, but the RENDERING part. rendering refers to scene composition, and is run on your GPU core. if your game is stressing your GPU too much, you WILL start dropping frames, and no amount of NVENC/hardware encoders will help you.

Yea really. 

 

Because he mentions something doesnt mean that the video as a whole is not made in such a way to market those cards to people that probably dont need them or think they would be useful for something they do not do. 

 

 

Like those supplement advertisements where for legal reasons they briefly mention "talk with your physician before consumption, may cause cardiac arrest has no active ingredients etcetc" but then the 99% of the ad is how this supplement will enhance your life in a never before seen way :P

 

 

In this video as a viewer what I got is that "gaming PCs now ship with those capture cards cool that means they are worth something" 

 

That "This capture cards are suitable for gamers heck I see one playing games using these capture cards" 

 

that "Those capture cards for 1080p cost about 200$ which linus implies is a good price so it must be so" 

 

that "hey there are option usb ones are more versatile and pci ones more cool and reliable" 

 

and how to use those capture cards in general. 

 

 

If you dont make it clear that they essentially do nothing more than software does e.g OBS and cost as much as a graphics card  then its just obscuring the reality in order to present the product at hand in a better hand. 

 

For what reasons he might wanted to do it I wont answer directly but leave it to people's imagination. 

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2 hours ago, CPotter said:

 

A PCIe capture card > USB devices > screen capture on the same PC.

 

In a sense, it's less hassle to deal with the PCIe device than it is to deal with flakey USB devices and software capture.

 

But not covered in the video is how you actually use these.

 

Because if you're going to do anything like add an overlay to the video, you need a much beefier computer, as you're essentially compositing two or more 4K streams in software before pushing it through the NVenc hardware encoder on the GPU, or FFMPEG in software. So the PCIe card will blow away the USB device's performance.

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4 minutes ago, Kisai said:

A PCIe capture card > USB devices > screen capture on the same PC.

 

In a sense, it's less hassle to deal with the PCIe device than it is to deal with flakey USB devices and software capture.

 

But not covered in the video is how you actually use these.

 

Because if you're going to do anything like add an overlay to the video, you need a much beefier computer, as you're essentially compositing two or more 4K streams in software before pushing it through the NVenc hardware encoder on the GPU, or FFMPEG in software. So the PCIe card will blow away the USB device's performance.

It's even more less of a hassle to save 200+ bucks and dont deal with any device at all and use software capture solutions ... 

 

@moriz1 And the above is my point this llt viewer got the wrong impression because the video was presenting those things in a favorable way and did not mention the obvious issues that make them unsuitable for certain or most usecases at least for youtubers or gamers. 

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Just now, papajo said:

It's even more less of a hassle to save 200+ bucks and dont deal with any device at all and use software capture... 

 

@moriz1 And the above is my point this llt viewer got the wrong impression because the video was presenting those things in a favorable way and did not mention the obvious issues that make them unsuitable for certain or most usecases at least for youtubers or gamers. 

Just watch the video before you comment on it. Because clearly you haven't.

 

Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft may have "social" media share features on the consoles, but that won't cut it for a LP.

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6 minutes ago, papajo said:

Like those supplement advertisements where for legal reasons they briefly mention "talk with your picisian may cause cardiac arrest has no active ingredients etcetc" but then the 99% of the ad is how this supplement will enhance your life in a never before seen way :P

in anticipation to your reply (and replies like it), i just finished watching the video again.

 

the video isn't anything like what you claimed. what i got was a fairly informative video that talked about what capture cards are, their uses, and their limitations, with a little bit of sponsored materials thrown in (none of which really has anything to do with the capture cards themselves).

 

2 minutes ago, papajo said:

@moriz1 And the above is my point this llt viewer got the wrong impression because the video was presenting those things in a favorable way and did not mention the obvious issues that make them unsuitable for certain or most usecases at least for youtubers or gamers. 

 

Linus in no way even tried to claim that capture cards are things that you should buy, short of mentioning that on of his sponsors sell them in their products. if viewers somehow get the wrong impression, then that's on them.

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55 minutes ago, moriz1 said:

Linus in no way even tried to claim that capture cards are things that you should buy, short of mentioning that on of his sponsors sell them in their products. if viewers somehow get the wrong impression, then that's on them.

Its a 7 minute 58 second video...

 

 

From 0 to 22 seconds he mentions "that we in our media group use capture devices" which I dont believe and never saw the rigs they tested doing so.. but I give the benefit of doubt here(althouh i think I saw them using OBS in their WAN shows but anyway) which ever the case if they do or dont its not an argument for a gamer to buy them yet it's like promoting it like "linus does it I need to do it too" 

 

from 22 to 34 seconds he claims that capture cards have improved immensely (again sounds like an ad to me esepcially if you realise that they are the same as before maybe resolutions gone a little up but along with price increases so yea nothing immense there) 

 

From 34 to 50 he mentions the sponsorship and that now gaming pc of a certain brand come with a capture card while using language such as "no brainer" "how far their come" etc

 

from 50 to 95 seconds he mentions (and I want to stress the word "mentions" because he doesnt emphasize on what these cards dont do he just prefly throws the bullet points of how they operate it's like saying cocain is a white powder that you snort to inhale and then it gets into your bloodstream I just described to you cocaine without saying to you anything useful about it or what the problems are with it etc) 

 

 

from 95 to 126 seconds he talks about the variety you can find in capture devices from elgato 

 

from 126 to 129 seconds  he again mentions  that the processing of the date is handled by the computer (so 3 second mention and also the way he mentions it doesnt convey the downside that this brings especially to the layman) 

 

from 129 to 150 seconds  he just lists the elgato roaster of capture devices 

 

from 150 to 160 seconds he emphasized that there is a model (camlink series) in the raoster that makes things easier for webcam users ... (yea you know not as easy as just using OBS without any hardware but easier compared to the hassle it would be if you use the pci card or USB device.. yet he omits to say that and just says that this model is  easier for webcam users) 

 

 

from 160 to 240 seconds he just talks again about the versatility of each form factor (USB vs pcie) only mentioning their (supposed) merrits and mentioning only downsides that are related to the comparison so what a usb capture card downside is compared to the PCIe one and vise versa not mentioning any downsides of using a capture card in general. 

 

 from 240 to 270 seconds  he mentions that when you ca not have your own computer and thus use a PCIe capture card or USB capture card (like in a lan party or turname = relating to gamers -as if that's a given and without mentioning that you wouldnt need to have one anyway ) you can use an other elgato device that saves the footage to the memory card. 

 

from 270 to 315 seconds He mentions that are gaming oriented capture devices (again without commenting on why are they gaming oriented since they impact the performance just as free software capture would adding no other benefit than added cost of purchase and pwoer consumption) share one trade pass through  so in other words he takes something self explanatory (how could this work without a pass through? you wouldn't be able to see anything... and pass through is something all capture cards had since ever) as a feature! 

 

It like saying a bottle of water has a cool characteristic that everybody needs it has a bottle cap so that you can close it when not using it and open it when you want to drink! :D

 

From 315 to 341 seconds they finally wanted to investigate something! what?  the pass-through latency (OMG.... ) yea its a pass-through by definition it doesnt do anything to the signal and it passes it through... obviously if it had latency then it would be cause of a malfunctioning device or a crappy implementation... 

 

yet they didnt think of testing how many FPS you lose using a capture card compared to FREE capture software... that would be something to investigate for a gamer oriented device wouldnt it? 

 

Yey!! they dont have latency so which product we need to purchase (because we need to do that) is up to us!! Good job corsair (and he also said that) 

 

from 341 to 355 he again mentions the great variety that exist by elgato

 

from 355 to 370 he tells that the good prices of those products and that you "only" have to pay 80 bucks more for the 4k version and that it will be a good idea to get that one even if your footage isnt at 4k to future proof... (without mentioning again that you can capture any resolution for free when using software... )

 

then the remaining seconds are spend on mentioning the specs of the corsair PCs....

 

So yea after using only 48 seconds out of the 7:52 to remotely mention basic stuff while ignoring the elephant in the room and use all the rest to promote and showcase the products as gamer oriented (hey the pass through has low latency too ;) ) for literally 90% of the total video time I call that product placement. 

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I've been working with audio for the better part of 25 years. I find it amazing how underrated the OPTICAL INPUT is on audio capture cards and sound cards. I do a lot of vinyl digitizing and Hi-Res audio work. My turntable, a TEAC TN-570 uses a high end AudioTechnica cartridge/stylus to feed sound via it's optical output into a Creative ZxR. After processing and saving the work on the PC I can feed the sound through a TEAC UD-503 DAC, again using optical link, where it goes to either my speakers or high end Sony XB700 cans.

 

This is as clean a sound path as you will get with very minimal analog conversion. Sadly the biggest problem with Hi-Res Audio and DSD is the lack of physical material in distribution. The recording industry sold it's soul away to Apple - pretty much everything available on iTunes is a low quality rip that I just cannot appreciate as an audiophile. I continue to shop for my music on CD where vinyl isn't available.

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41 minutes ago, papajo said:

 I call that product placement. 

 

...

 

are you serious?

 

the video RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING clearly stated that it is a sponsored video. you KNOW going into it that it will have product placement.

 

if you fail to realize as a viewer that the video has sponsored content, then that's on you.

 

the rest of your post is pretty meaningless. Linus clearly said, multiple times (as you noticed too) that the capture card is intended to capture footage from external video devices, like consoles and cameras.

 

but, i will highlight one particularly stupid section:

 

44 minutes ago, papajo said:

without mentioning again that you can capture any resolution for free when using software...

consoles?

 

outside of the built-in streaming capabilities found on some consoles, you probably won't be doing any console video capture without a capture card.

 

and what do you know? every bit of game footage shown clearly has a console in the shot. what do you want him to do? mention "console" every 15 seconds? is your attention span that short?

 

i won't go point to point with you, because all of it is nitpicky nonsense, and i don't have time for it. just know that you're more or less wrong on almost all of it.

 

i think you have a just bone to pick to Linus, and you decided to jump onto the first thing that you can sort of attack.

 

feel free to do so, but that'd just make you look sad. the rest of us are just shaking our head at your desperation.

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3 minutes ago, Luscious said:

I've been working with audio for the better part of 25 years. I find it amazing how underrated the OPTICAL INPUT is on audio capture cards and sound cards. I do a lot of vinyl digitizing and Hi-Res audio work. My turntable, a TEAC TN-570 uses a high end AudioTechnica cartridge/stylus to feed sound via it's optical output into a Creative ZxR. After processing and saving the work on the PC I can feed the sound through a TEAC UD-503 DAC, again using optical link, where it goes to either my speakers or high end Sony XB700 cans.

 

This is as clean a sound path as you will get with very minimal analog conversion. Sadly the biggest problem with Hi-Res Audio and DSD is the lack of physical material in distribution. The recording industry sold it's soul away to Apple - pretty much everything available on iTunes is a low quality rip that I just cannot appreciate as an audiophile. I continue to shop for my music on CD where vinyl isn't available.

I dont see how this is related to the topic but since you mention it there are marketplaces similar to itunes where you can purchase hi res audio versions such as tidal. 

 

As for the optical input it has been surpassed in spec by HDMI 

 

hdmiarcguide-5.jpg

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46 minutes ago, papajo said:

From 0 to 22 seconds he mentions "that we in our media group use capture devices" which I dont believe and never saw the rigs they tested doing so.. but I give the benefit of doubt here(althouh i think I saw them using OBS in their WAN shows but anyway) which ever the case if they do or dont its not an argument for a gamer to buy them yet it's like promoting it like "linus does it I need to do it too" 

They use capture cards for the WAN show, or at least they did when that was in person. They had two laptops and one streaming PC, so they used two capture cards for both the laptops (this can be seen in the video where they overhaul the WAN show setup).

I know they get talking points from sponsors, but I doubt this was said just because "If Linus does it, we should do it".

49 minutes ago, papajo said:

yet they didnt think of testing how many FPS you lose using a capture card compared to FREE capture software... that would be something to investigate for a gamer oriented device wouldnt it? 

Yes, so much this!

Even if the capture card has better fps/quality/latency than your built in videocard.. That's 200-250 USD spent on a capture card that could have also been spent on a videocard of a higher quality (which may have been able to record better then).

I get they can't simply show "yeah, this product is not effective for this purpose" when it's a sponsored video, but then it's like.. Isn't this more of a product showcase then? Which the title should reflect..?

 

This feels kind of like a shallow video, which doesn't scratch the surface of capture card vs. hardware/software encoding on your gpu/cpu.

Plus, they only took one angle in the video (recording on a single PC)


"We're all in this together, might as well be friends" Tom, Toonami.

Sorry if my post seemed rude, that is never my intention.

"Why do we suffer a lifetime for a moment of happiness?" - Anonymous

 

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