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ReganCACS

Are UPS worth the risk?

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Hi folks, this is my first post here and first post on a msg board in well over a decade. I am stuck on researching UPS and hoping for some advise.

 

I have been thinking about getting this UPS: APC Back UPS PRO BR 1000VA, SineWave, 10 Outlets (BR1000MS)

https://www.apc.com/shop/ca/en/products/Back-UPS-PRO-BR-1000VA-SineWave-10-Outlets-2-USB-Charging-Ports-AVR-LCD-interface/P-BR1000MS

For my new build that pcpartpicker estimates to use 384 watts (only planning on putting the PC and 1 monitor on battery). It has a Corsair RM650x Gold for the PSU.

 

The primary reason I am considering the UPS is when my air conditioner kicks on some of the lights in my condo dim for a fraction of a second, and I am hoping the UPS will help smooth out any dirty AC to the PSU from the air con start capacitor draw.

 

But I have some concerns about reviews I have seen of this device and similar items (like equiv VA/Watt rated devices from CyberPower):

  1. I have seen claims that support/service is non existent for this tier of "consumer" UPS, and that people have not been reimbursed for damages to equipment.
  2. I have seen reports claiming that the BR1000MS does not have a true sinewave, despite the manufactures claims, and that it has damaged PSU's because of this.
  3. I have seen claims that the BR1000MS does not actually regulate power output, and that it is not effective for brownouts despite the manufactures claim of having AVR.

So given those issues is this ~$200 device a good investment or should I not bother with a UPS if I can't invest at least a $1000 on it? Also can someone clarify, the 600 watt rating only applies when its running off battery correct? Or will it cut off on AC power if my PSU actually draws 650 watts for some reason?

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I'm not sure there's a risk - I don't know if i'd be relying on an insurance policy from your UPS company

check your home insurance, and add your PC to it and mention it's on a UPS

i think the benefits of having one outweighs anything else

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Honestly I would spend the extra to get a quality unit with good support and warranty considering that valuable electronics would be running off it, I would be more concerned why the lights dim when the AC turns on. 


Quote or tag me @Lemtea so I can see your reply. 

PSU Tier List


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Why an additional risk?

 

APC is like the main UPS brand out there, really doubt they'd be lying on their specs. 

It's a line interactive unit so the output is not going to be perfect, but it's going to be cleaner than nothing. 

 

1 hour ago, ReganCACS said:

Also can someone clarify, the 600 watt rating only applies when its running off battery correct?

No, it's all the time. 


F@H
Desktop: i7-5960X 4.4GHz, Noctua NH-D14, ASUS Rampage V, 32GB, RTX2080S, 2TB NVMe SSD, 2x16TB HDD RAID0, Corsair HX1200, Thermaltake Overseer RX1, Samsung 4K curved 49" TV, 23" secondary

Mobile SFF rig: i9-9900K, Noctua NH-L9i, Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX-AC, 32GB, GTX1070, 2x1TB NVMe SSD RAID0, 2x5TB 2.5" HDD RAID0, Athena 500W Flex (Noctua fan), Custom 4.7l 3D printed case

 

Dell XPS 2 in 1 2019, 32GB, 1TB, 4K

 

GPD Win 2

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Posted · Original PosterOP
8 hours ago, RussR said:

I'm not sure there's a risk - I don't know if i'd be relying on an insurance policy from your UPS company

check your home insurance, and add your PC to it and mention it's on a UPS

i think the benefits of having one outweighs anything else

Unfortunately in Canada home insurance doesn't cover stuff like this (at least not at the level I can afford). The electronics coverage is only if everything/most things gets stolen or destroyed in a fire/flood. A brown out taking out a couple pieces of equipment is considered an out of pocket expense. The deducible is about what I spent on the parts for the PC...

 

8 hours ago, Lemtea said:

Honestly I would spend the extra to get a quality unit with good support and warranty considering that valuable electronics would be running off it, I would be more concerned why the lights dim when the AC turns on. 

Is Australia on 220v? This is pretty standard for a high BTU portable unit on a 110v/15 amp circuit. Its done the same in 3 different places, even when its isolated to its own breaker. The single phase wiring to the panel in north america homes can't handle these things...

 

My other plan was to have an electrician come and add a couple dedicated 15 amp circuits to my office area to ensure that both my homebrewing equipment (i also run an electric brewing system that puts a big strain on the 110v power when in use) and computer equipment are on their own circuits away from the rest of the outlets/lighting. Would this be a better way to isolate the PC from the air con (and brewery)?  

 

8 hours ago, Kilrah said:

No, it's all the time. 

Is this only for the battery side or for the power surge side as well? Would I be better going with the 1500VA/900w version? Its a workstation running Ubuntu (w/AMD Ryzen 3800x, 32gb ram, Radeon RX 5600XT, 2 24inch ASUS artpro 1200p monitors) that I use to crunch numbers/do SCA/DAST scans/builds that would make my macbook boil water, and do a bit of gaming on in the evening. I plan on keeping the macbooks on a separate power bar.

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10 minutes ago, ReganCACS said:

Is this only for the battery side or for the power surge side as well?

Only for battery backed/regulated side. 


F@H
Desktop: i7-5960X 4.4GHz, Noctua NH-D14, ASUS Rampage V, 32GB, RTX2080S, 2TB NVMe SSD, 2x16TB HDD RAID0, Corsair HX1200, Thermaltake Overseer RX1, Samsung 4K curved 49" TV, 23" secondary

Mobile SFF rig: i9-9900K, Noctua NH-L9i, Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX-AC, 32GB, GTX1070, 2x1TB NVMe SSD RAID0, 2x5TB 2.5" HDD RAID0, Athena 500W Flex (Noctua fan), Custom 4.7l 3D printed case

 

Dell XPS 2 in 1 2019, 32GB, 1TB, 4K

 

GPD Win 2

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10 hours ago, ReganCACS said:

 

 

But I have some concerns about reviews I have seen of this device and similar items (like equiv VA/Watt rated devices from CyberPower):

  1. I have seen claims that support/service is non existent for this tier of "consumer" UPS, and that people have not been reimbursed for damages to equipment.
  2. I have seen reports claiming that the BR1000MS does not have a true sinewave, despite the manufactures claims, and that it has damaged PSU's because of this.
  3. I have seen claims that the BR1000MS does not actually regulate power output, and that it is not effective for brownouts despite the manufactures claim of having AVR.

 

This is why end user reviews are complete bullshit.  Half of them are posted by people that have no idea what they're doing. 

 

That UPS does have true sine.. though it doesn't matter.  Any PSU made in the last decade doesn't care. 

 

That UPS does have AVR, as any line interactive UPS would. 

 

And APC does have decent warranty and post-sales service. 

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I bought a APC 700VA for my NAS a while ago and so far have been nothing but happy about my purchase. I also read some of the reviews claiming that there was a bunch of marketing and false claims surrounding these products and while I have not checked the output on any oscilloscope, I was able to get away with overclocks (only cpu and only as a test as the UPS only provides 390w) on my main rig that were highly unstable when using the mains power, so something is going on behind the plastic that makes your AC more better :P


  • Daily Driver : Ryzen 5 3600 - Aorus Ultra Gaming x470 - Strix RTX2070 - (4x16Gb) HyperX Fury Black 3200MHz - Corsair Carbide 300r
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On 8/16/2020 at 5:03 AM, ReganCACS said:

My other plan was to have an electrician come and add a couple dedicated 15 amp circuits to my office area to ensure that both my homebrewing equipment (i also run an electric brewing system that puts a big strain on the 110v power when in use) and computer equipment are on their own circuits away from the rest of the outlets/lighting. Would this be a better way to isolate the PC from the air con (and brewery)?  

 

Would probably be a good idea. Your best bet would be to discuss what you are trying to do with a reputable electrician and see what they recommend. 


Quote or tag me @Lemtea so I can see your reply. 

PSU Tier List


FIRESTARTER: I5 760 @ 4.0GHZ | XFX R9 280X DD | 8GB RAM | CRUCIAL MX500 250GB SSD | OCZ ZX 1000W | CM 690 IIIWin 10
DAYBREAK: R5 2600X | GIGABYTE GTX 1050Ti G1 GAMING | 16GB RAM | CRUCIAL MX200 1TB SSD | WD 1TB BLUE | CORSAIR TX650M | NZXT H500i | Win 10
KEYBOARD & MOUSE | CORSAIR STRAFE RGB (MX RED) | LOGITECH G502 | STEELSERIES QCK XXL
LAPTOP: DELL XPS 15 9570 i7 8750H | GTX 1050TI MAX Q | 16GB RAM | 500GB PCIE SSD | 4K TOUCHSCREEN Win 10 PRO
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Posted · Original PosterOP

To be honest its not just the reviews, I have worked as a developer for 14 years, and info sec for the past 2 year. I can't count the number of times I have heard UPS units blamed for everything from a single corrupt file (literally just happened today), to bad hard drives, to total system failure. 

 

That being said, every PC I have had die, that was not a laptop, I have traced the failure back to the PSU/Power in some way so maybe AC power is just the culprit and our PSU and UPS units are just trying to keep everything stable as best their engineering allows🤔. I think I will probably get the APC UPS BR1500MS next pay day its only 100 more and will give me a lot more breathing room watt wise.

 

Thanks for your input folks.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
7 minutes ago, Lemtea said:

Would probably be a good idea. Your best bet would be to discuss what you are trying to do with a reputable electrician and see what they recommend. 

I will be doing that as well, but in a few months. Hopefully with no more A/C in a few weeks, and the UPS I will be fine until I can get the electrician in. I think that will be a lot more then $300 though...

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3 minutes ago, ReganCACS said:

 

That being said, every PC I have had die, that was not a laptop, I have traced the failure back to the PSU/Power in some way so maybe AC power is just the culprit and our PSU and UPS units are just trying to keep everything stable as best their engineering allows🤔.

Then stop using shitty PSU's.

 

Honestly, a great UPS doesn't make up for a crap PSU.

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, jonnyGURU said:

Then stop using shitty PSU's.

 

Honestly, a great UPS doesn't make up for a crap PSU.

 

Is the corsair RM 650x not a good PSU? It was well reviewed on reviews and LTT videos speak highly of corsair PSUs in general. Its pretty much the best I could find, available in Canada right now, and it was not cheap at $160 w/tax.

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11 hours ago, ReganCACS said:

Is the corsair RM 650x not a good PSU? It was well reviewed on reviews and LTT videos speak highly of corsair PSUs in general. Its pretty much the best I could find, available in Canada right now, and it was not cheap at $160 w/tax.

The RM650x is probably the best PSU for the money you can get.

 

You saw what I quoted you as saying:

 

12 hours ago, ReganCACS said:

 

That being said, every PC I have had die, that was not a laptop, I have traced the failure back to the PSU/Power in some way 

 

So you've had an RM650x in every PC you've had die?

 

A good PSU can handle mains drops all the way down to 100V, sometimes as low as 90V, without even flinching.  Same goes for the power supply in your monitor.  The RMx can handle 90V input.

 

If you're having BLACK OUTS then get a UPS.  If you're having BROWN OUTS the UPS isn't going to do much of anything.  At least nothing more than what an AVR is going to do.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

No the corsair 650 is only in the new build. I have not built a PC in 8ish years (just mac since then). Back then I had to make a lot of compromises on things to get any use out of the machine at all, and had to build it myself to have one period. A $160 PSU was not in the budget. The last one I think was a cooler master 450 that came with the case. The others would have been similar w/case or what ever the local shop in the small town I grew up in had for under $100 at the time.

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Ok.  Then what I said stands true.

 

If you're not using garbage PSUs, you won't have a problem with PSUs dying.

 

A Cooler Master PSU is usually garbage.  A Cooler Master PSU that comes with a case is 10x garbage.  Therefore, failure is inevitable.

 

 

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