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Starlink $1 pre-trial minimum bandwidth speeds revealed: 35Mbps DOWN and 5Mbps UP

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Given this is effectively an alpha test, quite good results. With spacex churning out 120 of the sats a month they will have this fleshed out soon and hopefully continue to expand as they grow subscriber count.

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13 hours ago, Kisai said:

That is some pretty ridiculous minimum. 4 seconds per page of web browsing? 100ms has been possible for a decade, if anything websites have been getting worse by doing all this responsive html and framework cruft.

 

No, really, if you are playing an action game, 40ms is murder when your opponent has 4ms.

What games are you playing with 4ms latency?

LAN games?

40ms is perfectly fine, I've been playing on 60-70ms for a while and it is also perfectly playable.

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13 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Starlink satellites orbit at ~350 km. That's ONE HUNDRED TIMES CLOSER. Which in theory could mean up to 100 times less latency.

 

350 km is far, but not that far. There are plenty of land-based servers and data centres that we connect to all the time that are farther away then that.

Someone already mentioned it's 550 km, but that's just on piece of the story. It would be "only" 550 km if the satellite would be perfectly vertical above your location. But most of the time this is not the case. The distance to the satellite would be somewhere between 550 km and 1000 km for an angle of 60° around the vertical axis.In addition, there are not enough ground stations and the signal needs to hop from one satellite to another (depends on the location and is most likely a negative for remote locations) which increases latency. Starlink is probably using time multiplexing (like WiFi or cellular) and data will be send in short bursts with a delay of several dozen milliseconds between each burst.

So latency probably will be all over the place but below 100 ms.

 

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10 minutes ago, Origami Cactus said:

What games are you playing with 4ms latency?

LAN games?

40ms is perfectly fine, I've been playing on 60-70ms for a while and it is also perfectly playable.

if i want to play games with any of my US friends, i have to put up with 250ms ping.


Judge the product by it's own merits, not by the Company that created it.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Origami Cactus said:

What games are you playing with 4ms latency?

LAN games?

40ms is perfectly fine, I've been playing on 60-70ms for a while and it is also perfectly playable.

10 years ago I was playing a game, where the closer you were to the LA data center, the better you could PvP in the game. That is what happens when Korean and Japanese games get localized to US/CA and the crappy latency isn't addressed at all. Every KR and JP game goes through a phase where people wonder why they're getting their ass kicked in the game and it turns out that if they turn nagle off, their latency goes from 200ms to sub-10ms if they are in the same city with the data center or sub-50ms if they're in the same timezone as the the server. Sucks to be you if you live more than 300 miles east or west of the data center, or outside CA/US, because then you go through all the intermediary backbones that route your packets all over the place.

 

Because American and Canadian internet providers can't grapple with the the speed of light, and these games were designed for countries with sub-10ms latency, the games end up being a completely different, sometimes miserable experience. Heck, one person I was trying to help inside the game for one of these games was in fact using hughesnet satellite internet, and I basically had to tell them "that will never, ever give you good performance on any game."

 

The problem you will run into, is that if a game was not designed explicitly for North America, it will simply suck to play if you don't live in the same city that the game server runs from, no if's-ands-or-buts. If you live in California, and the game is in LA, great news, you might actually be able to play it, but if you're not in a city that has direct peering with the ISP the game is running on, you're SOL forever with that game. 

 

Leave nagle on, and most people don't realize it's on until someone shows them how to turn it off, and then it's like "wow, I can't believe how broken this game is."

 

And yes I absolutely noticed when I switched from Shaw's crappy 80ms to Telus's 4ms latency and the reason I didn't want bonded xDSL and stuck with the 25mbs service.

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Good for very rural areas and middle of nowhere places. Still I only care about fiber to be present everywhere. 


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Just now, Doobeedoo said:

Good for very rural areas and middle of nowhere places. Still I only care about fiber to be present everywhere. 

If fiber was present everywhere there would be no purpose for starlink.


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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3 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Good for very rural areas and middle of nowhere places. Still I only care about fiber to be present everywhere. 

Never going to happen in many nations. Because Fiber is only economical in areas with a good population density, outside of that its no. 

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11 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

If fiber was present everywhere there would be no purpose for starlink.

I mean.. Mostly I meant it everywhere in cities really. 

7 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Never going to happen in many nations. Because Fiber is only economical in areas with a good population density, outside of that its no. 

I know they expand them rather fast in very dense areas, sucks how they hold back to spend any extra somewhere whete they may not reap max profit ugh. 


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Just now, Doobeedoo said:

I mean.. Mostly I meant it everywhere in cities really. 

I know they expand them rather fast in very dense areas, sucks how they hold back to spend any extra somewhere whete they may not reap max profit ugh. 

Yep.  That’s how capitalism works.  My city has two major wired internet carriers and one minor wireless one.  So actual competition in a few places where the minor one exists.  In those places home values raise dramatically because people want so badly to live in an area with competitive internet.


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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3 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

sucks how they hold back to spend any extra somewhere whete they may not reap max profit ugh. 

Shareholders expect the stock price to increase. Remember Shareholders equal owners of the company that's what stock is, equity. ISP's are doing their job, making money, increasing stock price. Rural areas are not profitable. IF you live in Rural areas, you know this and you either live with it, or move to the city. I doubt rural areas in the US will ever get Fiber, Or Coax for that matter. 

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And that's one of the potential downsides with Starlink. Who will invest into FTTH in less profitable regions, when there's already a cheap but slightly worse alternative?

 

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1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Yep.  That’s how capitalism works.  My city has two major wired internet carriers and one minor wireless one.  So actual competition in a few places where the minor one exists.  In those places home values raise dramatically because people want so badly to live in an area with competitive internet.

Same where I am, it's so lame. I live at neighborhood where it's mostly just houses and no residential buildings really. Yet just like few min walk where soe such buildings are with more people of course that building got fiber installed. 

What's even more funny I asked ISPs few times when the may expand to X area or current fiber coverage map and oh wow did they dosge those. 


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5 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Shareholders expect the stock price to increase. Remember Shareholders equal owners of the company that's what stock is, equity. ISP's are doing their job, making money, increasing stock price. Rural areas are not profitable. IF you live in Rural areas, you know this and you either live with it, or move to the city. I doubt rural areas in the US will ever get Fiber, Or Coax for that matter. 

Yeah, sad part is I am in the city, not in the center, but close, yet still no luck. 


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1 minute ago, Doobeedoo said:

Same where I am, it's so lame. I live at neighborhood where it's mostly just houses and no residential buildings really. Yet just like few min walk where soe such buildings are with more people of course that building got fiber installed. 

What's even more funny I asked ISPs few times when the may expand to X area or current fiber coverage map and oh wow did they dosge those. 

House = residential building. Do you mean multi unit housing?


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Those pings are really good for satellite internet. Would like to see jitter during a load where there are lots of clients doing real world activities. Would be nice for this to be successful. It would open up a lot of rural areas that I don't consider because the broadband companies only run cable ~5 miles out of town.


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4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

House = residential building. Do you mean multi unit housing?

Urm kinda, my 'house' is like a very large house per say for 4 families and each has a yard. Place is mix of those and regular houses, no tall skyscraper buildings and such. 


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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Urm kinda, my 'house' is like a very large house per say for 4 families and each has a yard. Place is mix of those and regular houses, no tall skyscraper buildings and such. 

Ah building code and zoning technicalities. ..  such fun and so variable by area..   In my area That’s called a 4-plex.  If it’s two families one above the other it’s called a duplex. If it’s a two family house but they’re side by side it’s called a double bungalow, which is a bit odd because in MN the difference between a house and a bungalow is “does it have a basement” a side-by-side is a double bungalow whether or not it has a basement though. 

Edited by Bombastinator

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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15 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Ah building code and zoning technicalities. ..  such fun and so variable by area..   In my area That’s called a 4-plex.  If it’s two families one above the other it’s called a duplex. If it’s a two family house but they’re side by side it’s called a double bungalow, which is a bit odd because in MN the difference between a house and a bungalow is “does it have a basement” a side-by-side is a double bungalow whether or not it has a basement though. 

Hmm interesting. So my building, it was originally for 4, one bought one side, se he owns half the house and the other half is split into my place and another one. Each side is actually vertically, ground floor with 2 floors and a basement, yard garage. It's quite something.


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The real benefit will be for industry use out in the ocean or Gulf of Mexico where the oil and gas industry thrives. And of course, ever expanding wind farms. Many server assets are on large vessels too. Also, should considerably help the **airline industry where you can get meaningful work done in the sky while connected to a Citrix server (or RDP over a VPN).

 

This opens up all sorts of B2B possibilities beyond the scope of just consumer entertainment.

 

**statement predicated on the possibility of reverting back to pre-COVID-19

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On 8/14/2020 at 12:44 PM, Kisai said:

That's actually pretty terrible latency, gaming on that would be awful. I get 4ms on DSL to local and the same 32ms to Frontier LA.

The download/upload speed might be passible for watching youtube in 4K but that's about it.

I made it to masters in overwatch on 40 ms so the latency is just fine for gaming. I think the higher pings on the speed tests results might be a problem but if you can get 60 or below that is perfectly fine for gaming. 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

Hmm interesting. So my building, it was originally for 4, one bought one side, se he owns half the house and the other half is split into my place and another one. Each side is actually vertically, ground floor with 2 floors and a basement, yard garage. It's quite something.

More stuff about multi unit housing:

Spoiler

In my city in MN that would be called a “condoed  four-plex converted to triplex” but as a condo it would have other weirdnesses  as arranged by the condo charter.  The 4 to 3 unit Change might or might not change inspection requirements as might the condo status.  Every town in every county in every state is going to have slightly different rules. Even the names will change.  I’ve heard the term “detached” and “semi-detached” used in passing reading stuff about the UK but don’t know what they mean. “Flat” sort of means condo, but there are apparently differences.

 

Edited by Bombastinator

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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21 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

I made it to masters in overwatch on 40 ms so the latency is just fine for gaming. I think the higher pings on the speed tests results might be a problem but if you can get 60 or below that is perfectly fine for gaming. 

That's nice. It's also amazing how people are dismissive of the latency because it doesn't affect them personally, despite me providing more than three separate examples of non-western MMO games brought to the US and suffering for it. If someone is playing Overwatch in Iqaluit, Nunavut (Canada), where exactly do you think the earth station is going to be hmm?

 

There's more to a games design than simply transmitting "shoot target" , turn based games are not impacted by latency because the netcode is still FIFO. Real time action games, like the kind of thing you'd need for VR, or playing on Stadia are severely hampered by latency already, and adding another 40ms on top just makes these services untenable.

 

Your netflix watching will not care if you have 40ms or 4000ms.

 

People that are testing this right now, obviously are not testing it from the furthest-from-civilization areas, otherwise we would actually see that latency in the tests. These are people testing it less than 300 miles from a major city and likely within the footprint of the earth station already.

 

https://hothardware.com/news/spacex-starlink-satellite-internet-beta-users-hitting-downloads-of-up-to-60-mbps

Quote

But what we can tell from the results is that beta testers in the Los Angeles, California area are hitting downlink speeds of up to 60 Mbps, while uplink speeds seem to top out at just under 18 Mbps.

 

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6 minutes ago, Kisai said:

That's nice. It's also amazing how people are dismissive of the latency because it doesn't affect them personally, despite me providing more than three separate examples of non-western MMO games brought to the US and suffering for it. If someone is playing Overwatch in Iqaluit, Nunavut (Canada), where exactly do you think the earth station is going to be hmm?

 

There's more to a games design than simply transmitting "shoot target" , turn based games are not impacted by latency because the netcode is still FIFO. Real time action games, like the kind of thing you'd need for VR, or playing on Stadia are severely hampered by latency already, and adding another 40ms on top just makes these services untenable.

 

Your netflix watching will not care if you have 40ms or 4000ms.

 

People that are testing this right now, obviously are not testing it from the furthest-from-civilization areas, otherwise we would actually see that latency in the tests. These are people testing it less than 300 miles from a major city and likely within the footprint of the earth station already.

 

https://hothardware.com/news/spacex-starlink-satellite-internet-beta-users-hitting-downloads-of-up-to-60-mbps

 

Extremely high latency can even be used as a weapon in mmos sometimes.  There was an old PvP game who’s name I have forgotten that had all the US servers taken out by Nationalistic combinatuer interests that used hundreds of dialup modems all logging in at once to lock a server and effectively stopping time for all but a small number of players on one side who would then just kill everyone they didn’t like.  Poof you’re dead. 


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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