Starlink $1 pre-trial minimum bandwidth speeds revealed: 35Mbps DOWN and 5Mbps UP

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

sucks how they hold back to spend any extra somewhere whete they may not reap max profit ugh. 

Shareholders expect the stock price to increase. Remember Shareholders equal owners of the company that's what stock is, equity. ISP's are doing their job, making money, increasing stock price. Rural areas are not profitable. IF you live in Rural areas, you know this and you either live with it, or move to the city. I doubt rural areas in the US will ever get Fiber, Or Coax for that matter. 

[HenrySalayne]

And that's one of the potential downsides with Starlink. Who will invest into FTTH in less profitable regions, when there's already a cheap but slightly worse alternative?

 

[Doobeedoo]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Yep.  That’s how capitalism works.  My city has two major wired internet carriers and one minor wireless one.  So actual competition in a few places where the minor one exists.  In those places home values raise dramatically because people want so badly to live in an area with competitive internet.

Same where I am, it's so lame. I live at neighborhood where it's mostly just houses and no residential buildings really. Yet just like few min walk where soe such buildings are with more people of course that building got fiber installed. 

What's even more funny I asked ISPs few times when the may expand to X area or current fiber coverage map and oh wow did they dosge those. 

[Doobeedoo]

5 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Shareholders expect the stock price to increase. Remember Shareholders equal owners of the company that's what stock is, equity. ISP's are doing their job, making money, increasing stock price. Rural areas are not profitable. IF you live in Rural areas, you know this and you either live with it, or move to the city. I doubt rural areas in the US will ever get Fiber, Or Coax for that matter. 

Yeah, sad part is I am in the city, not in the center, but close, yet still no luck. 

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, Doobeedoo said:

Same where I am, it's so lame. I live at neighborhood where it's mostly just houses and no residential buildings really. Yet just like few min walk where soe such buildings are with more people of course that building got fiber installed. 

What's even more funny I asked ISPs few times when the may expand to X area or current fiber coverage map and oh wow did they dosge those. 

House = residential building. Do you mean multi unit housing?

[vetali]

Those pings are really good for satellite internet. Would like to see jitter during a load where there are lots of clients doing real world activities. Would be nice for this to be successful. It would open up a lot of rural areas that I don't consider because the broadband companies only run cable ~5 miles out of town.

[Doobeedoo]

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

House = residential building. Do you mean multi unit housing?

Urm kinda, my 'house' is like a very large house per say for 4 families and each has a yard. Place is mix of those and regular houses, no tall skyscraper buildings and such. 

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Urm kinda, my 'house' is like a very large house per say for 4 families and each has a yard. Place is mix of those and regular houses, no tall skyscraper buildings and such. 

Ah building code and zoning technicalities. ..  such fun and so variable by area..   In my area That’s called a 4-plex.  If it’s two families one above the other it’s called a duplex. If it’s a two family house but they’re side by side it’s called a double bungalow, which is a bit odd because in MN the difference between a house and a bungalow is “does it have a basement” a side-by-side is a double bungalow whether or not it has a basement though. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Bombastinator

[Doobeedoo]

15 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Ah building code and zoning technicalities. ..  such fun and so variable by area..   In my area That’s called a 4-plex.  If it’s two families one above the other it’s called a duplex. If it’s a two family house but they’re side by side it’s called a double bungalow, which is a bit odd because in MN the difference between a house and a bungalow is “does it have a basement” a side-by-side is a double bungalow whether or not it has a basement though. 

Hmm interesting. So my building, it was originally for 4, one bought one side, se he owns half the house and the other half is split into my place and another one. Each side is actually vertically, ground floor with 2 floors and a basement, yard garage. It's quite something.

[justpoet]

This will be amazing to stick on an RV if speeds remain similar to what has been shown while the network expands.

[StDragon]

The real benefit will be for industry use out in the ocean or Gulf of Mexico where the oil and gas industry thrives. And of course, ever expanding wind farms. Many server assets are on large vessels too. Also, should considerably help the **airline industry where you can get meaningful work done in the sky while connected to a Citrix server (or RDP over a VPN).

 

This opens up all sorts of B2B possibilities beyond the scope of just consumer entertainment.

 

**statement predicated on the possibility of reverting back to pre-COVID-19

[Brooksie359]

On 8/14/2020 at 12:44 PM, Kisai said:

That's actually pretty terrible latency, gaming on that would be awful. I get 4ms on DSL to local and the same 32ms to Frontier LA.

The download/upload speed might be passible for watching youtube in 4K but that's about it.

I made it to masters in overwatch on 40 ms so the latency is just fine for gaming. I think the higher pings on the speed tests results might be a problem but if you can get 60 or below that is perfectly fine for gaming. 

[Bombastinator]

10 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

Hmm interesting. So my building, it was originally for 4, one bought one side, se he owns half the house and the other half is split into my place and another one. Each side is actually vertically, ground floor with 2 floors and a basement, yard garage. It's quite something.

More stuff about multi unit housing:

Spoiler

In my city in MN that would be called a “condoed  four-plex converted to triplex” but as a condo it would have other weirdnesses  as arranged by the condo charter.  The 4 to 3 unit Change might or might not change inspection requirements as might the condo status.  Every town in every county in every state is going to have slightly different rules. Even the names will change.  I’ve heard the term “detached” and “semi-detached” used in passing reading stuff about the UK but don’t know what they mean. “Flat” sort of means condo, but there are apparently differences.

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Bombastinator

[Kisai]

21 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

I made it to masters in overwatch on 40 ms so the latency is just fine for gaming. I think the higher pings on the speed tests results might be a problem but if you can get 60 or below that is perfectly fine for gaming. 

That's nice. It's also amazing how people are dismissive of the latency because it doesn't affect them personally, despite me providing more than three separate examples of non-western MMO games brought to the US and suffering for it. If someone is playing Overwatch in Iqaluit, Nunavut (Canada), where exactly do you think the earth station is going to be hmm?

 

There's more to a games design than simply transmitting "shoot target" , turn based games are not impacted by latency because the netcode is still FIFO. Real time action games, like the kind of thing you'd need for VR, or playing on Stadia are severely hampered by latency already, and adding another 40ms on top just makes these services untenable.

 

Your netflix watching will not care if you have 40ms or 4000ms.

 

People that are testing this right now, obviously are not testing it from the furthest-from-civilization areas, otherwise we would actually see that latency in the tests. These are people testing it less than 300 miles from a major city and likely within the footprint of the earth station already.

 

https://hothardware.com/news/spacex-starlink-satellite-internet-beta-users-hitting-downloads-of-up-to-60-mbps

Quote

But what we can tell from the results is that beta testers in the Los Angeles, California area are hitting downlink speeds of up to 60 Mbps, while uplink speeds seem to top out at just under 18 Mbps.

 

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, Kisai said:

That's nice. It's also amazing how people are dismissive of the latency because it doesn't affect them personally, despite me providing more than three separate examples of non-western MMO games brought to the US and suffering for it. If someone is playing Overwatch in Iqaluit, Nunavut (Canada), where exactly do you think the earth station is going to be hmm?

 

There's more to a games design than simply transmitting "shoot target" , turn based games are not impacted by latency because the netcode is still FIFO. Real time action games, like the kind of thing you'd need for VR, or playing on Stadia are severely hampered by latency already, and adding another 40ms on top just makes these services untenable.

 

Your netflix watching will not care if you have 40ms or 4000ms.

 

People that are testing this right now, obviously are not testing it from the furthest-from-civilization areas, otherwise we would actually see that latency in the tests. These are people testing it less than 300 miles from a major city and likely within the footprint of the earth station already.

 

https://hothardware.com/news/spacex-starlink-satellite-internet-beta-users-hitting-downloads-of-up-to-60-mbps

 

Extremely high latency can even be used as a weapon in mmos sometimes.  There was an old PvP game who’s name I have forgotten that had all the US servers taken out by Nationalistic combinatuer interests that used hundreds of dialup modems all logging in at once to lock a server and effectively stopping time for all but a small number of players on one side who would then just kill everyone they didn’t like.  Poof you’re dead. 

[DeScruff]

I wonder how consistent that is though. Its one thing if a speed test says "average ___ ms" Its another thing if you get erratic hangs.
Also... One problem with Satellite internet has always been less then ideal weather. I knew somebody who had satellite internet and they said when it was overcast their speeds basically dropped in half, and just couldn't go online in heavy rains.
 

 

[Kisai]

39 minutes ago, DeScruff said:

I wonder how consistent that is though. Its one thing if a speed test says "average ___ ms" Its another thing if you get erratic hangs.
Also... One problem with Satellite internet has always been less then ideal weather. I knew somebody who had satellite internet and they said when it was overcast their speeds basically dropped in half, and just couldn't go online in heavy rains.
 

 

That's called rain-fade. Anyone who had an old Analog C-band sattelite dish knows what i'm talking about.

 

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparison-of-predicted-rain-attenuation-at-C-Ku-Ka-Band-with-H-polarization-using_fig2_268923930

In digital, it turns into a horrible mess on those small ku-band pizza dishes. 

 

So in places that are experiencing overcast, fog, rain or snow/sleet you probably would get very little signal, similar to having one bar on your cell phone, in a basement. In theory Starlink is supposed to use multiple bands, so it may be possible to still have a signal, but unless the base stations receivers are perfectly aligned (good luck self-installers) that might not help much.

 

Essentially, the thicker the atmosphere the worse satellite signals are recieved to the ground. With DTH satellite systems, you can usually split the difference as long as the transmitting side is also not having rain fade. So like in Canada. If the transmitter in Halifax is being snowed on, and the receiver in Kelowna is being snowed on, chances are the signal will not be recieved at all. If the transmitter is the only one experiencing rain fade, then everyone receiving it will get an equal level of transmission errors, cause all the satellite does is retransmit what it receives, it doesn't buffer it.

 

So in the case of Starlink, I presume the problem would be twice as bad since it needs to be two-way. So if there is a snow storm underneath the star-link satellite, that might impact you, but if there's one at the base station, the base station might be impacted, along with losing X% of the entire starlink network while the storm is over top .

[HenrySalayne]

6 hours ago, Kisai said:

If someone is playing Overwatch in Iqaluit, Nunavut (Canada), where exactly do you think the earth station is going to be hmm?

Easy. There will be no ground station and no satellite coverage.
The current revision of the Starlink cluster is only covering up to a latitude of 53° or the south of Canada and cities like Manchester or Hamburg in Europe. Scandinavia or northern Canada is left out.

[HalGameGuru]

Since Ku band spectrum is used in defense radars I don't think it will have much trouble with weather. I need to do some checking up but I'm not sure any of the air to ground frequencies starlink is using will suffer too much from anything but the most severe weather

Ka band is used more for police radar and some of them have been known to have issues in rain, but I am not sure if those were specifically Ka band radars that had that issue