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Dogatron

GTX1070 on PCIe 2.0 slot

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Hey folks,

 

I'm on a Z87 MoBo with an 1150 Intel 4770K.  I'm not trying to run Crysis at 4K 300FPS.  60-120 is good enough for me; I mostly play older games because I'm cheap.  Don't ask about my hours on Skyrim, or the number of mods.

 

My M.2 seems doesn't seem to be living up to its potential when it is using a shared PCIe 3.0 slot; I'm not trying to reach the theoretical read/write limit, but I think the fact that this NVME M.2 drive and the Asus GTX 1070 are running on a shared PCIe 3.0 lane is crippling the performance of the NVME drive.

 

The question:  Will plugging the GTX 1070 on a PCIe 2.0 slot degrade performance or cause bottlenecks?

 

I've researched this but the only answers I find are 7-8 years old.  Thanks for your attention.

 

-Dogatron

 

PS: 24GB RAM (DDR something, 1600, I think)

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Whats the spec of your NVME SSD. The PCIe slot limitations won't cause problems. Make sure the drive isn't full to the brim.


@BlueScope819 so I can see your post

#MuricaParrotGang

My name is Legion 'Murica Parrot Gang, for we are many.

If a design is taking too long, the design is wrong, and therefore, the design must be modified to accelerate progress. -Elon

Mentioned in 8/5/2020 TechLinked

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M.2 on LGA1150 boards only get 10Gbps or 1.25GB/s max bandwidth in theory, also it's connected to the chipset no matter what (still the case with their current newest Z490). Don't bother trying the PCIe 2.0 slot since that means putting the GPU to the chipset.


CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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Posted · Original PosterOP
5 minutes ago, BlueScope819 said:

Whats the spec of your NVME SSD. The PCIe slot limitations won't cause problems. Make sure the drive isn't full to the brim.

Damn, that was fast.  Thanks!

 

Samsung Evo970 1TB 3D VNAND Flash.  Just looked at the specs and it says PCIe Gen 3 x 4.  So this mf doesn't even run at x16?  Keep getting disappointing or below the curve results on benchmarks. 

 

Thanks again for your attention.

-Dogatron

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the 4770k has an iGPU, if you really wanted to test a difference you can take out the gpu and test the drive


CPU: i5-4690k @ 4.4 GHz | RAM: 12GB DDR3 1333MHz | GPU: Sapphire Pulse RX 580 4GB 

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

M.2 on LGA1150 boards only get 10Gbps or 1.25GB/s max bandwidth in theory, also it's connected to the chipset no matter what (still the case with their current newest Z490). Don't bother trying the PCIe 2.0 slot since that means putting the GPU to the chipset.

So you're suggesting put the GPU to the 4770 and the M.2 to the chipset?

 

You guys are ridiculously quick and helpful.   Thanks!

 

-Dogatron

 

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1 minute ago, Dogatron said:

So you're suggesting put the GPU to the 4770 and the M.2 to the chipset?

 

You guys are ridiculously quick and helpful.   Thanks!

 

-Dogatron

 

yes


CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, DakotaWebber said:

the 4770k has an iGPU, if you really wanted to test a difference you can take out the gpu and test the drive

Das ist eine gute Idee!  Think I'll try that, since i still have a pile of PC guts in the living room.   

 

Thanks!

 

-Dog

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How many hours have you played skyrim? How many mods have you installed?


I am still TechWizardThatNeedsHelp, just less of a mouthfull.

 

My beautiful, but not that powerful, main PC:

My new PC I'm saving for:

  • NZXT H1 Matte Black
    • Comes with a 650W NZXT PSU
    • NZXT AIO
  • Ryzen 5 3600
  • MSI B450i GAMING PLUS AC
  • XPG ADATA 2800Mhz
  • RX480 untill I have more for a 2060 or 2070
  • 2tb Sabrent Rocket Q PCIE gen 3 NVME SSD
  • Samsung 470 128GB SATA SSD
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Posted · Original PosterOP
6 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

yes

Maybe I should have clarified: the Asus Z87-Pro does not have an M.2 slot.  I'm using a PCIe adapter.  The 2 PCIe 3.0 slots go to the CPU while the PCIe 2.0 slot goes to the chipset.  This is also a shared lane, but I don't care about this since I'm not intending to use other high-bandwidth PCIe peripherals.

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16 minutes ago, Dogatron said:

Damn, that was fast.  Thanks!

 

Samsung Evo970 1TB 3D VNAND Flash.  Just looked at the specs and it says PCIe Gen 3 x 4.  So this mf doesn't even run at x16?  Keep getting disappointing or below the curve results on benchmarks. 

 

Thanks again for your attention.

-Dogatron

Yeah because PCIe 3.0 4x can do like 4 gigabytes a second no need for it to be 16x. What numbers are you getting on your drive with crystaldiskmark?


@BlueScope819 so I can see your post

#MuricaParrotGang

My name is Legion 'Murica Parrot Gang, for we are many.

If a design is taking too long, the design is wrong, and therefore, the design must be modified to accelerate progress. -Elon

Mentioned in 8/5/2020 TechLinked

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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 minutes ago, TheTechWizardThatNeedsHelp said:

How many hours have you played skyrim? How many mods have you installed?

Bro, don't put me on blast like that.   I'll tell you this:

  • Started Skyrim on PS3, put about cough cough some hundred cough cough and then got tired of load screens
  • Skyrim on PC and dipped my toes in mods
  • SSE and SKSE and Nexus Mods - the beginning of the end
    • Discovered that an exclusive M.2 NVME JUST FOR SKYRIM don't do jack for load times
    • About 200 mods
    • 2K and 4K textures always
    • Always try no to end up as a stealth archer
    • Lydia and/or Jenassa, always

We good?

 

-Dog

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
9 minutes ago, BlueScope819 said:

Yeah because PCIe 3.0 4x can do like 4 gigabytes a second no need for it to be 16x. What numbers are you getting on your drive with crystaldiskmark?

Lemme get back to you on that because I may not be using the most reputable benchmark.  I'll run Crystal tomorrow.

 

You guys are super helpful.  That sandal and sock wearing foo wasn't kidding.

 

-Dog

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2 minutes ago, Dogatron said:

That sandal and sock wearing foo wasn't kidding.

Tagging @LinusTech so he appreciates the compliment


@BlueScope819 so I can see your post

#MuricaParrotGang

My name is Legion 'Murica Parrot Gang, for we are many.

If a design is taking too long, the design is wrong, and therefore, the design must be modified to accelerate progress. -Elon

Mentioned in 8/5/2020 TechLinked

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Posted · Original PosterOP
4 minutes ago, BlueScope819 said:

Tagging @LinusTech so he appreciates the compliment

Uh, Thanks?  In my defense, I am strongly considering GlassWire. 

 

You guys rock t*ts. 

 

Stay cool and safe!

 

-Dog!

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Since it has the same 16x slot configuration as my Z97 Sabertooth, just run the graphics card in the top slot, m.2 in the second. BTW - the platform as a whole is the main limiting factor.


"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

Since it has the same 16x slot configuration as my Z97 Sabertooth, just run the graphics card in the top slot, m.2 in the second. Not sure if the m.2 SSD will work though without a custom BIOS. Intel reserved support for it on Z97/H97 and up.

Oh, the M.2 works as plain storage regardless.  Getting it to work as a W10 boot drive was a Bear that I fought for 5 days; you are correct, it requires a custom BIOS.  All good now booting W10 off an M.2 on an old Z87.  Now that you mention it, wondering if the non-native NVME support is what is causing the M.2 to run slower than spec.

 

Very cool.

-Dog

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49 minutes ago, Dogatron said:

Oh, the M.2 works as plain storage regardless.  Getting it to work as a W10 boot drive was a Bear that I fought for 5 days; you are correct, it requires a custom BIOS.  All good now booting W10 off an M.2 on an old Z87.  Now that you mention it, wondering if the non-native NVME support is what is causing the M.2 to run slower than spec.

 

Very cool.

-Dog

It's probably a combination of both having to use a custom BIOS, and LGA1150 being right at the start of m.2 support. I do know that there are several late H97 and Z97 boards with m.2 slots - but they are all very limited compared to newer platforms.

BTW, some m.2 NVME SSD seem to have wierd quirks when running on an adapter. My Crucial P1 doesn't run on the adapter (not even recognised), but does on the mobo, while the SX8200 Pro works fine on both.


"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

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Should be fine. Run mine at 2.0 16x or 3.0 8x. Cpu is the real factor there effecting gpu performance overall.


Main RIg Corsair Air 540, I7 8700k, ASUS ROG Strix Z370-H, G.Skill TridentZ 16GB, EVGA 1080TI SC Black, EVGA 850 GQ, Acer xG270HU 2560x1440@144hz

 

Spare RIg Corsair Air 540, I7 4770K, Asus Maximus VI Extreme, G.Skill Ares 32Gb, EVGA 1080sc & 1060 SSC, Corsair CX850M, Acer KG251Q 1920x1080@240hz 

 

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5 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

Don't bother trying the PCIe 2.0 slot since that means putting the GPU to the chipset.

Does that just add latency? I mean theoretically a 2.0 16x slot should be fine for bandwidth.


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PSU Tier List  |  The Real Reason Delidding Improves Temperatures"2K" does not mean 2560×1440 

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6 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

Does that just add latency? I mean theoretically a 2.0 16x slot should be fine for bandwidth.

If the lanes are from the CPU, it wont. Problem is the board only has PCIe 2 if you use the chipset lanes, which is x4.in bancwidth (unless you manually drop PCIe 3 to 2 in the BIOS)


CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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Posted · Original PosterOP
22 hours ago, BlueScope819 said:

Yeah because PCIe 3.0 4x can do like 4 gigabytes a second no need for it to be 16x. What numbers are you getting on your drive with crystaldiskmark?

Thanks for the CDM Bench suggestion!  The perf numbers for the M.2 when it is sharing PCIe3 with the GPU are almost identical as when the M.2 drive is hogging the PCIe3 lane by itself.  This appears to me like the GPU isn't killing the perf of the M.2 when the 3.0 lane is shared.  Whether the inverse is true remains to be seen.

 

On the other hand, connecting the M.2 to the 2.0 chipset lane of the PCIe 2.0,- oof! - M.2 perf drops down to SATA3 numbers. 

 

Thanks again, guys for your insight and suggestions!

 

-Dog

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7 hours ago, Dogatron said:

Thanks for the CDM Bench suggestion!  The perf numbers for the M.2 when it is sharing PCIe3 with the GPU are almost identical as when the M.2 drive is hogging the PCIe3 lane by itself.  This appears to me like the GPU isn't killing the perf of the M.2 when the 3.0 lane is shared.  Whether the inverse is true remains to be seen.

 

On the other hand, connecting the M.2 to the 2.0 chipset lane of the PCIe 2.0,- oof! - M.2 perf drops down to SATA3 numbers. 

 

Thanks again, guys for your insight and suggestions!

 

-Dog

Pretty much the only time you won't see a PCIe 3.0 NVME SSD slowed down drastically when run via PCIe over the PCH, is when it's Ryzen 3000 with X570 or what ever Intel comes out with that has PCIe 4.0. That link between the CPU is 8GB/sec for everything on Ryzen 3000/X570 and only 4GB/sec on Intel's current boards+anything under X570.

Z87, Z97 and H97 have only 2GB/sec between the PCH and CPU.


"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

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