Apartment Setup Advice?

[tarfeef101]

Hello fellow forum-ers. It is time again for me to appear on the other side of the questions here. I am moving to a new studio apartment soon. Until now, I've always had some of my stuff at my parents' places, and just moved with fairly minimal amounts of things since I've been a student moving to small places for only a few months at a time. But now that I'm moving out for good since I'm done school, that changes things. I'm looking for ideas on how you can easily integrate PCs into a small apartment, with the extra caveat that my place doesn't have A/C (I do hope to be able to get a screen put in for the balcony door, though, so I can keep that open as much as possible).

I'm trying to fit:

• an ATX main system w/ 2 24" monitors to do most of my work on (corsair 280x hopefully becoming a Silverstone Alta F1)
• an ATX testbench (Thermaltake Core P3)
• an ITX LAN rig (which I also use as a test environment when i'm making random software) (Dan A4)
• an ITX server (Fractal Core 500)
• a mATX (bare motherboard, though) router/firewall

My biggest concerns are:

• I think my network hookup is in the closet, which is on the opposite side from the balcony, where I'd probably try to put the heat-generating things near in the hopes I can open the door once I get mesh for it
  • I might be able to fit the router in the closet with the modem, but I don't have 10Gb on it. if there is an economical way to get a 10Gb NIC onto it, and a switch with 10Gb backhaul and 1Gb downlink ports, I could upgrade to that so I can run 1 cable from the closet across the wall to the other side
• I would like a double bed and couch still, though I can sacrifice a table and TV to save space
  • Being able to have a table where I can let guests sit, and perhaps more importantly do PC builds/maintenance would be nice, though
• Heat. In my bedroom (just a bedroom in a house right now, so smaller than an entire apartment) right now, gaming on my main rig (7700k, 1080ti) noticeably does warm up my room. Having all the PCs in the same room, especially if 2 or more are under load, I am concerned about the heat load. And I don't think the landlord will let me put an A/C on the balcony (though if they do, I totally will, that'll solve basically everything)
• I do own things other than PCs, surprisingly enough. So if there's any clever ways you can think of to fit other possessions into the area, that'd be great. I have the ability to get extra desks, bookcases, etc. as long as they'll fit.

For reference, this is approximately what my space will look like:

 

Hopefully some of you have some ideas based on what I'm sure others have had to try for themselves before. Thanks!

[Dedayog]

I'd put an L-shaped desk in the corner where the table/2 chairs is, about all you can do in a small space like that.

 

Or remove all the Living/Dining stuff and use that area.

 

Honestly, what did you expect us to say?  It's a small space that really can't accommodate what you want from it, but stuff it in how you can.

[harryk]

35 minutes ago, tarfeef101 said:

I think my network hookup is in the closet, which is on the opposite side from the balcony, where I'd probably try to put the heat-generating things near in the hopes I can open the door once I get mesh for it

• I might be able to fit the router in the closet with the modem, but I don't have 10Gb on it. if there is an economical way to get a 10Gb NIC onto it, and a switch with 10Gb backhaul and 1Gb downlink ports, I could upgrade to that so I can run 1 cable from the closet across the wall to the other side

Unless you have >1Gb internet service why do you need 10Gb on the router? 10Gb networking is not cheap. The budget way of doing 10Gb is buying old enterprise gear on eBay though most of it is SFP not RJ45. 

 

I'd run a cable from the network jack in the closet around the room to wherever the PCs are and setup the modem and router there. Or if you don't want to have cables running across the room, set up the modem and a wireless router in closet for internet and then use a separate router for LAN.

 

As for space usage, you could put the PCs on a tall vertical shelf. Something like a 2x2' shelf/rack in the corner with 4 levels. Utilize the vertical space and minimize footprint. 

 

 

[tarfeef101]

36 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

I'd put an L-shaped desk in the corner where the table/2 chairs is, about all you can do in a small space like that.

 

Or remove all the Living/Dining stuff and use that area.

 

Honestly, what did you expect us to say?  It's a small space that really can't accommodate what you want from it, but stuff it in how you can.

Hm... I just had a thought, you think if I put a desk near the "kitchen table" that the hood fan over the stove would be powerful enough to take some heat away? Though I think you're right, an L-desk would probably use that space better than the single desk I've got now, I'll have to see if I can get an L or just another table to put there. Plus putting it along that wall would allow me to put the network cabling along the wall behind the bed, so it should be fairly hidden 

 

[tarfeef101]

5 minutes ago, harryk said:

Unless you have >1Gb internet service why do you need 10Gb on the router? 10Gb networking is not cheap. The budget way of doing 10Gb is buying old enterprise gear on eBay though most of it is SFP not RJ45. 

 

I'd run a cable from the network jack in the closet around the room to wherever the PCs are and setup the modem and router there. Or if you don't want to have cables running across the room, set up the modem and a wireless router in closet for internet and then use a separate router for LAN.

 

As for space usage, you could put the PCs on a tall vertical shelf. Something like a 2x2' shelf/rack in the corner with 4 levels. Utilize the vertical space and minimize footprint. 

 

 

I could waste my money on >1Gb, actually. But it's mostly for being able to run a single 10Gb cable to a switch from the router, rather than a bunch of 1Gb cables. 

I do have a use case for 10Gb everywhere inside, though, if I can afford it. My server is used for archiving high bitrate audio and streaming it, training neural nets, compiling large projects, and is also used to host a few web services. So it can have some heavy bandwidth. My Lan rig/test machine also does some of those things, so being able to transfer large datasets and such faster would be cool.

 

Yeah I guess I could do modem in closet -> router outside with the rest of the PCs, that would probably be the easiest way. Would mean 1 more heat-producing thing contributing to the room's air, though, and more space being taken up in the main floor area.

 

The stacking thing might be feasible, actually. I'd only game on the single system, the rest are for latency-insensitive tasks. Maybe I could wire them all up into a KVM and then have a single set of display/peripheral cables going to a desk to control all the secondary systems, that could help. Wonder how much something that could do mouse+kb+display for 3-4 systems might cost...

[tarfeef101]

I just grabbed a $100 4-port KVM for hdmi+usb, so I should be able to take advantage of the "stack PCs vertically" in some sort of shelf/rack using that, hopefully that'll help somewhat. Also I hear heat rises so maybe that'll keep their heat away from by chair and/or desk, at least

[Dedayog]

1 hour ago, tarfeef101 said:

I could waste my money on >1Gb, actually. But it's mostly for being able to run a single 10Gb cable to a switch from the router, rather than a bunch of 1Gb cables. 

I do have a use case for 10Gb everywhere inside, though, if I can afford it. My server is used for archiving high bitrate audio and streaming it, training neural nets, compiling large projects, and is also used to host a few web services. So it can have some heavy bandwidth. My Lan rig/test machine also does some of those things, so being able to transfer large datasets and such faster would be cool.

 

Yeah I guess I could do modem in closet -> router outside with the rest of the PCs, that would probably be the easiest way. Would mean 1 more heat-producing thing contributing to the room's air, though, and more space being taken up in the main floor area.

 

The stacking thing might be feasible, actually. I'd only game on the single system, the rest are for latency-insensitive tasks. Maybe I could wire them all up into a KVM and then have a single set of display/peripheral cables going to a desk to control all the secondary systems, that could help. Wonder how much something that could do mouse+kb+display for 3-4 systems might cost...

Or you could "waste" money on a bigger place.  If you can afford 10Gb, you can afford a real place to live.

 

Seriously, you want to use the stove hood to suck the heat from your components?!  

 

You talk a lot of big words but at the end of the day, look at the situation you're in and act accordingly.  

 

 

[tarfeef101]

1 minute ago, Dedayog said:

Or you could "waste" money on a bigger place.  If you can afford 10Gb, you can afford a real place to live.

 

Seriously, you want to use the stove hood to suck the heat from your components?!  

 

You talk a lot of big words but at the end of the day, look at the situation you're in and act accordingly.  

 

 

Lol I guess tone is hard to convey online... Yeah I'm not about to drain an extra 50-75 bucks on a month on 1.5Gb. Also yeah no 10Gb ain't available where I am, at least not for anything you don't need a quote to find out. Assumptions are bad. 

I mean, if it works, why not? When I'm gaming is when the most heat will get generated, and I don't care about noise then, I have headphones. 

Easy to say without an idea of what market I'm in. For a bigger place, I'd be looking at about $400 a month extra at least. That's not tenable. 

[dizmo]

I'd probably buy a desk that spans from the stove to the window wall.

Main PC tower and ITX server go on the floor, ITX LAN rig and test bench on the table top.

If you really want to add some space, get a Murphy bed.

 

Ditch one of the bedside tables, and put the couch against that wall. You'd have to lose the kitchen table and chairs, but sitting at your desk to eat or at the couch using a coffee table really isn't that bad.

 

A kitchen exhaust fan won't take away heat it's mostly meant to get rid of steam from directly below. Can't you just open a window? As for heat generation, just get a free standing air conditioner and vent it out the window. If necessary you can also dump the exhaust into the bathroom and turn the fan on.

 

6 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Or you could "waste" money on a bigger place.  If you can afford 10Gb, you can afford a real place to live.

Seriously, you want to use the stove hood to suck the heat from your components?!  

You talk a lot of big words but at the end of the day, look at the situation you're in and act accordingly. 

Haha, what? That literally makes absolutely no sense. 10Gb is a single time, relatively small cost in relation to a larger apartment.

[tarfeef101]

8 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I'd probably buy a desk that spans from the stove to the window wall.

Main PC tower and ITX server go on the floor, ITX LAN rig and test bench on the table top.

If you really want to add some space, get a Murphy bed.

 

Ditch one of the bedside tables, and put the couch against that wall. You'd have to lose the kitchen table and chairs, but sitting at your desk to eat or at the couch using a coffee table really isn't that bad.

 

A kitchen exhaust fan won't take away heat it's mostly meant to get rid of steam from directly below. Can't you just open a window? As for heat generation, just get a free standing air conditioner and vent it out the window. If necessary you can also dump the exhaust into the bathroom and turn the fan on.

 

Haha, what? That literally makes absolutely no sense. 10Gb is a single time, relatively small cost in relation to a larger apartment.

Interesting, I didn't even consider just putting them all along that wall. I guess you really don't lose a whole lot of functional space that way. That could work fairly well.

Yeah bedside tables don't really matter, those are just what the bldg has in their floor plan mockup. right now I have one, but my phone still goes on my bed and my glasses on my desk anyways

That's a shame, was hoping that'd be a "so stupid it might work" thing. I don't think there's actually a window, just the door along the glass on the balcony side of the unit, otherwise yeah I'd try to do something like that. 

[Dedayog]

15 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I'd probably buy a desk that spans from the stove to the window wall.

Main PC tower and ITX server go on the floor, ITX LAN rig and test bench on the table top.

If you really want to add some space, get a Murphy bed.

 

Ditch one of the bedside tables, and put the couch against that wall. You'd have to lose the kitchen table and chairs, but sitting at your desk to eat or at the couch using a coffee table really isn't that bad.

 

A kitchen exhaust fan won't take away heat it's mostly meant to get rid of steam from directly below. Can't you just open a window? As for heat generation, just get a free standing air conditioner and vent it out the window. If necessary you can also dump the exhaust into the bathroom and turn the fan on.

 

Haha, what? That literally makes absolutely no sense. 10Gb is a single time, relatively small cost in relation to a larger apartment.

Let me rephrase... if you can afford to utilize 10Gb for all the big boy stuff you're doing... you can afford to spend a little more a month for a much better place.  

 

Either way it's about being realistic with life.

[tarfeef101]

9 minutes ago, Caroline said:

excuse my edition, I'm not sure where exactly the closet is but you said it was on the opposite side of the balcony so my guess was that it's there

The purple line is the network cable.

 

there are another details about this that are odd

-why a large bed and two nightstands if you live alone? takes up a lot of space

-I got rid (sell them?) of the two small couches because of the same, idk they're just out of place, there's also a large sofa but I kept it because some people like to nap there, there's a bed for that but still... 

-The kitchen is simply too big compared to the size of the apartment but you can't fix that without spending a ton of money so leave it alone.

-You can fit some stuff like a bookshelf or drawers in the wall that's opposite to the kitchen sink and also in the right corner of the laundry room near the TV.

-The coffee table is... useless, seriously, you can get rid of it as well.

 

There are many different ways to arrange everything, like having the PC against some of the walls and using a fan to blow the heat outside through the windows

Yeah the layout of furniture was just put in the mockup from the apt company, I don't think I need those bedside tables either. Also yeah that is the closet.

Hm... that layout is pretty interesting. I'd probably sacrifice the kitchen table for more desk/storage space, one table-like place for potential guests is cool, in all likelihood I'll eat at my desk anyways. That does manage to keep a couch in an area you could actually watch a TV from, which is not something I'd expected to be able to retain, so that's definitely a plus. and it keeps PCs near the door, which is good.

[tarfeef101]

6 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Let me rephrase... if you can afford to utilize 10Gb for all the big boy stuff you're doing... you can afford to spend a little more a month for a much better place.  

 

Either way it's about being realistic with life.

1 NIC + 1 switch, where only 1 port is 10Gb vs 400+ a month... Nah that doesn't make sense. 

 

Maybe where I lived as a student, I could pay 100 a month (still more than that one time cost even over just a year) and get meaningfully more space. Not where I'm going. 

[dizmo]

12 minutes ago, tarfeef101 said:

Interesting, I didn't even consider just putting them all along that wall. I guess you really don't lose a whole lot of functional space that way. That could work fairly well.

Yeah bedside tables don't really matter, those are just what the bldg has in their floor plan mockup. right now I have one, but my phone still goes on my bed and my glasses on my desk anyways

That's a shame, was hoping that'd be a "so stupid it might work" thing. I don't think there's actually a window, just the door along the glass on the balcony side of the unit, otherwise yeah I'd try to do something like that. 

Yeah. Ikea kitchen tabletops come in lengths up to 96", I'm not sure how much space you have between those two points.

 

Ah, yes, if you didn't mock it up with your furniture then I'd just have one bedside table on the left of the bed. You need the space to get into the closet anyway.

You can use the doorway, you just need to craft a large enough blocker to put in. Not hard at all.

 

@Caroline put a nice bit of effort into that, but her layout won't work for you. It completely blocks off access to the balcony. Unless you have no intention of going out there.

 

7 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Let me rephrase... if you can afford to utilize 10Gb for all the big boy stuff you're doing... you can afford to spend a little more a month for a much better place.  

 

Either way it's about being realistic with life.

Very few places only cost a little more a month for more space. Especially if he';s moving with the GTA.

Ever heard of a hobby? Not everyone's doing extensive work if they have "big boy stuff", and not everyone feels like spending more money when it's not really needed.

It's not like he's saying he has a 5 person LAN set up he's trying to fit into this space. It just needs smart planning.

[dizmo]

7 hours ago, Caroline said:

You can get rid of the kitchen table if you're comfortable sitting on a stool next to the fridge to eat, I've seen some people do it when their apartment is small. Or the desk of course, but it's not the right place to eat. A foldable table would work for guests and you can put it in the kitchen whenever it's needed.

 

Get the mesh for the window, you'll have to close it when it rains though as water might get in.

 

edit @dizmo there's a gap between the bed and desk.

also the computers could go against the left wall instead of the windows, it'd look better imo, that was a quick sketch I made in paint in 1 minute.

The gap isn't nearly wide enough to get through comfortably though. That's probably like 6 inches.

[tarfeef101]

1 minute ago, dizmo said:

The gap isn't nearly wide enough to get through comfortably though. That's probably like 6 inches.

Yeah, if it's possible, what I'd likely do with that is blow out the bedside table, make the bed a double, remove the kitchen table and put desks along the wall beside the appliances all the way, and leave more window area exposed. Then, if possible, a small table or similar at the foot of the bed as long as is feasible without significantly obstructing access. 

[dizmo]

1 hour ago, tarfeef101 said:

Yeah, if it's possible, what I'd likely do with that is blow out the bedside table, make the bed a double, remove the kitchen table and put desks along the wall beside the appliances all the way, and leave more window area exposed. Then, if possible, a small table or similar at the foot of the bed as long as is feasible without significantly obstructing access. 

Just make sure if you buy a desk top that long you properly support it with legs/drawers.

It's definitely what I'm doing for my next desk. At ~$250 - $300 it's by far the cheapest way to go.

[tarfeef101]

6 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Just make sure if you buy a desk top that long you properly support it with legs/drawers.

It's definitely what I'm doing for my next desk. At ~$250 - $300 it's by far the cheapest way to go.

Haha yeah at least for now, I'm probably going full sketch and using 3 separate desks I already have

 

if I end up really liking it there after my first term expires, I might upgrade to some less jenky setup. Figure I might do something more like what BitWit has been showing off in his recent new office videos, he's joining a few more standard length tops together, so if/when I move I know I'll be able to reuse them. 

[tarfeef101]

Well since this was resurrected, figured I'd share how it turned out (sorry for terrible MS painting). please note ofc a lot of choices were dependent on furniture i already owned:
 

1. ended up going single bed, let's face it, I spend way too much time playing with PCs, watching anime, and playing games to need a bigger bed. 
2. that allowed for me to place it where I did, and fit a console big enough to fit a 55" tv without overhang. didn't wall mount because of cost, effort, and dealing with modifying an apartment I don't own
3. couch was free (got it from my parents when they moved), and is quite nice. so glad to be able to fit it. if i somehow convince people to join me in my apartment, at least there's somewhere they can sit down now. 
   1. coffee table was a <20 dollar item from craigslist. works well enough for feet and food
4. closet on the side w/o the washer/dryer contains the router, along with some storage for oft-used PC things on top of the hangar rack. 
5. beside that is a bookshelf that **perfectly** fits in the nook created by the column/post there. so glad i brought the narrower one
6. on the other side of that post, i have 2 desks. one i got from ikea (wood top and 4 legs), and the other i took from my grandma in the area. the two of them fit super-snug in that space, so much so that they brace each other and remove any wobble at all. they're also under 2mm different in depth and height, though not identical
   1. the desk closer to the closet is my main one. this (from the closet towards the balcony) has my main rig, 2 monitors and 2 sets of KB/mice in front of them, and my LAN rig on it
   2. the other desk has my monster power centre (fancy power bar with a lot of filtering capacitors, got it for free) with a 10gb switch and KVM for my 2nd monitor on it. in front of those is a medium GN modmat for whatever i'm working on at the time. to the side of those is my server, a chromebox from work, and a printer. 
   3. each desk has a chair, though the main desk's chair is WAYYY nicer, the other one hurts my back if i sit in it for extended periods of time
   4. i managed to snake a cat7 cable from the networking closet, behind the bookshelf, and behind the desks to the switch with almost no visible length, so happy that worked out
7. also my bathroom is different/bigger than that pic lets on, and i actually put my third desk in there you never know when you'll need a desk. got my chromebook there cause why not

I'm overall quite happy with this setup. I have enough space for all my systems (though that's actually changed a bit since I made this post, i recycled my old main rig parts (partially) into an HTPC, and the testbench's core platform I actually sold, so right now that's been combined w/ the main rig til I get a case I want for it). There are no cables running across the floor, and it's not cramped at all. Plus I do still have access to my balcony door. 

 

If you wanted to fit a double bed because you actually have a life, I'd recommend dropping the couch to a loveseat, and maybe shrinking the TV and console to fit the larger bed. there is still some length left to extend the bed w/o infringing door access, so width is the primary concern. 

 

Oh yeah as for cooling, right now it is winter so I'm mining on all the GPUs I've got here worth doing it on (4 ATM), and it's above average but still tolerable. hoping to sell one of them to a friend to make it less on-the-edge. In the summer, i'm hoping to get a screen put onto the door so I can keep it open. The main rig is kinda far, as is the HTPC (though that doesn't have a dGPU right now, waiting for an AMD 6000 series card under 180mm for that). But the LAN rig and server are close enough, as is the temporary system living on my modmat, that I think the heat will easily find its way out the door if it is open.

 

Thanks to everyone who helped out during the design phase, and hopefully for anyone (like the person who resurrected the thread) this is useful in some way!