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Blizzard employees post their salaries to protest

spartaman64
By spartaman64
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I always discuss my salary with all my coworkers and they do the same. The mentality of it's super secret I think died with the older generations. Sometimes HR will say you can't discuss it which is actually illegal

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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13 minutes ago, comander said:

Welcome to the gaming industry. 

 

There's a reason I why when a recruiter for a major game studio came to me I treated the entire process, including the 5 hours of on site interviews, as a joke and a practice interview. 

 

Ended up somewhere paying 50-100% more for a way lighter work week. 

 

Data science role. I asked the gaming recruiter for an all in comp of around 140k. 

That’s common with some types of jobs.  It’s supply and demand.  Gaming companies are “cool” to some.  Art companies are “cool” to others, public service jobs are “cool” to others yet.  All of them pay below what would be equivalent employment in another sector.   

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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2 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

metro

metro is something LA has needed sense the 1950s but has never been built.

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16 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

I always discuss my salary with all my coworkers and they do the same. The mentality of it's super secret I think died with the older generations. Sometimes HR will say you can't discuss it which is actually illegal

same attitude here.

What will they do? IT jobs are plenty and we would have no problem finding one.

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55 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Vaguaries. 

Sure, because you articulated specifics in your responses a lot more than me ;)

55 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

They’ve got higher taxes and a different health care system and a bunch of other stuff.  So numbers from Sweden won’t match numbers from the US, and “perks” would get measured wildly differently.  There are a lot fewer of them in Sweden.  Or rather a lot of the things thought of as perks in the US are gotten by everyone because they’re handled by the state.  Like healthcare.  Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be measurable though.  Also doesn’t make it impossible as is implied.  Would make things different.  It could underline some interesting things perhaps.  Like the claim that US spends twice as much as other countries for worse health care.  The number might not be correct. It would produce some harder numbers.
 

 A company doing a job correctly knows exactly what their cost per employee is.  Perks tend to be under valued or not factored in. 
 

I notice you’re not treating the Japan one at all.

I won't go into a long discussion debating different systems in countries around the world, so I just picked the first example that you brought up, not me ;)

If you want some specifics, here you go:
Sweden's socioeconomic system relies on a few things that just won't happen in the US - in Sweden when you make $70000 per year, you start giving away half of that to the government. Even lower and middle class people pay their due in exchange for government services, you could say that everyone pays - everyone gets.
They have a small population that's a highly homogenous society that in general doesn't allow uncontrolled immigration and economic immigration because those two things would destroy the system they have, a system that operates on the principles of a large family or some sort of a "tribe" meaning that everyone contributes and everyone benefits.

Their corporate tax rates are around the same as in the US because they know not to "kill the goose that lays golden eggs", you can fire people for pretty much any reason there as well. They also don't have a national minimum wage AT ALL because they know already that it doesn't work.
Noone blames "the rich" or "the one percent" over there for inequalities in their society, noone advocates 70 or even 90% tax rates on the richest people, their top marginal tax rate is about 57% and it applies to everyone who earns more than 1.5 times the national average.
Their politicians also don't "magically" increase their wealth from 0 to 200 million dollars on "public salaries" like the Clintons did for example.

In my book that's already more than enough of fundamental differences between systems in Sweden and the US to understand what I'm trying to say.

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1 minute ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

I'd say it is due to low population density (1030 hab/km^2). NYC, Shanghai, Tokyo, Sao Paulo, etc have 2-8x higher density.

If they built one in LA, it would cost a ton to make any reasonable difference and would operate practically empty.

https://luminocity3d.org/WorldPopDen/#10/34.0208/-118.1071

same to the SF bay where bart does wonders

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2 minutes ago, comander said:

They've been doing expansions a fair bit the last few years. For example, you can go from Santa Monica to Pasadena now. I kind of regret not using public transit while doing grad school at USC. It would've made sense. 

metrolink and amtrack are doing better but both do not hold time tables. the light rail is doing okay

Good luck, Have fun, Build PC, and have a last gen console for use once a year. I should answer most of the time between 9 to 3 PST

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"Stupidity is like trying to find a limit of a constant. You are never truly smart in something, just less stupid."

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1 hour ago, Morgan MLGman said:

On the other hand this would make it harder for more qualified or more experienced individuals to negotiate higher salaries - because "if everyone gets paid x amount of money, you should get the same". Whereas when it's not public information, you negotiate that individually and privately, you also don't get "dirty looks" from people who earn less on similar positions because they don't know what you make.

If the offer from the employer doesn't satisfy you - leave the company. This is what I would do.

Don't take what I said as an excuse for Blizzard's behavior, it's reprehensible. But it's not only their fault, California is ran terribly and has ridiculously high taxes and cost of life so that's probably the main issue for both Blizzard and its employees.

 

You do realize that all the hollywood film studios, animation, game development and silicon valley startups are in California right? The reason it's taxed so high is because they aren't leaving. 

 

Tax breaks in Canada attract business from the US. Instead of complaining about California's taxes, complain about the companies that actively exploit the fact that the people who work for them can't afford to live nearby.

 

Like the easiest way to fix crappy businesses wagons is to tell them they must pay for the employee's commute, be that hiring a taxi service to bring the employee in, lobbying for grade-separated rapid transit, or to pay them to work from home. Nobody should have to commute more than 20 minutes to get to work. Likewise for "gigs", if you try to get someone who is cheaper outside the commute area, then they get to charge you extra for it.

 

The entire way job commutes have been for the last 30 years is upside down, and it too a Pandemic to prove that we've been doing this all wrong.

 

48 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

This sounds like BS to me.

A bunch of whiny people who want more money and when they didn't get the raise they wanted, they try and protest.

Go and look at the cost of living in your own backyard before you pass judgement on others.

 

48 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Are people really surprised that video game testers and customer service representatives have poor salaries? It's not exactly high-tier job to test games. They are low skill, low paid jobs.

Customer service representatives have to put up with a lot of grief from entitled customers that range from pretending to be nice, to assholes who will take down your name, and then go stalk you because you didn't give them what they wanted. Nobody is paid enough to deal with the worst customers, and quite honestly the entire "chatbot" customer service acting as a filter hasn't exactly made people nicer, now they just think they're talking to a machine. The entire pandemic has shown that people who work customer service are underpaid, and put in harms way more than the highly paid "upper management" types who instead demand to keep the store open while the plague spreads, never having to be put in harms way.

 

48 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

The whole story about someone having to skip meals and drinking a bunch of free coffee from Blizzard' coffee machine to suppress their appetite does not sound like a Blizzard problem. That sounds like a "I am heavily in debt because of ill financial decisions" problem and now that person wants Blizzard to give them a bunch of money to fix it. I mean it's terrible that the person is in such a situation, but if you can't even afford food then your expenses must be very high, even if your salary is low.

Do you even have a job? Because these are the kinds of assumptions about the real world that 16 year olds with no life experience make. 

 

To put it bluntly. When you live in a city with a high cost of living, you are blaming them for living in the city they likely grew up in. It's basically blaming people who are poor for being poor. This is not a "bad choices" thing. Rich people are often helped by their parents into "good" high-paying jobs and never have to do a blue-collar job in their life. If you don't know people in a blue-collar industry (eg trades like construction) good luck getting into one, you'll be working at the fast food place or 7-11 convenience store for the rest of your life unless you want to be in so much debt from university tuition just for a "chance" at escaping poverty, and then have to spend the next 30 years paying it off, and not getting yourself into stable financial shape until you're almost retired.

 

People who work for large companies, are largely spat upon by the people who make financial decisions. They believe that everyone must show up for work, on time, regardless of the health of the employee. Heaven forbid an employee be carrying Covid, or be 9 months pregnant, or have to care for a sick child. No, you don't show up, you're fired and replaced with the next employee who doesn't make demands. One sick person shows up to work and spreads it to everyone, and now your productivity is completely in the toilet. This is why companies should be unionized.

 

Only Hollywood's Screen Actors/Voice Actors guild is unionized (SAG-AFTRA), and that's how they can afford to live in the LA area. Everyone else who is not an actor or directly employed by a film-related union, basically can not.

 

If someone can't afford food, it's likely because the job doesn't pay them a living wage in the first place.

 

image.thumb.png.7054a3a1fe426fe8b60e1f76fb5c8768.png

 

https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/california/santa_monica (304%), this is where Blizzard HQ is. Housing is 700% more than the rest of the country. Santa Monica is a suburb of LA. The median home price in Santa Monica is $1,698,700.

 

https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/california/los_angeles (173%), this is where Hollywood and most Animation, and some game studios are. Housing is 298%. The median home price in Los Angeles is $689,500.

 

https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/california/san_francisco (269%), this is where Silicon Valley is. Housing is 596%. The median home price in San Francisco is $1,378,300.

 

For completeness:

https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/new_york/manhattan (258%), Where all the financial HQ's are in the US. Housing is 520%. The median home price in Manhattan is $1,202,300.

 

https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/south_dakota/cresbard (67.6%), where absolutely nothing is. Housing is 19.8%. The median home price in Cresbard is $45,700. 

 

So the spread of housing costs between SD and CA is nearly 35X. It only takes a year or two to afford a house in the middle of nowhere. Meanwhile, to afford a home in an expensive part of CA, you would never be able to afford one, let alone live in one unless you inherited it from your family.

 

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Just now, gabrielcarvfer said:

Seems to make more sense, as you need fewer lines to cover most of the city (it is a "thin" strip along the bay).

did you look at the map?

most of the lines aren't in SF but are in the east bay which is a lot less dense

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10 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Sure, because you articulated specifics in your responses a lot more than me ;)

I won't go into a long discussion debating different systems in countries around the world, so I just picked the first example that you brought up, not me ;)

If you want some specifics, here you go:
Sweden's socioeconomic system relies on a few things that just won't happen in the US - in Sweden when you make $70000 per year, you start giving away half of that to the government. Even lower and middle class people pay their due in exchange for government services, you could say that everyone pays - everyone gets.
They have a small population that's a highly homogenous society that in general doesn't allow uncontrolled immigration and economic immigration because those two things would destroy the system they have, a system that operates on the principles of a large family or some sort of a "tribe" meaning that everyone contributes and everyone benefits.

Their corporate tax rates are around the same as in the US because they know not to "kill the goose that lays golden eggs", you can fire people for pretty much any reason there as well. They also don't have a national minimum wage AT ALL because they know already that it doesn't work.
Noone blames "the rich" or "the one percent" over there for inequalities in their society, noone advocates 70 or even 90% tax rates on the richest people, their top marginal tax rate is about 57% and it applies to everyone who earns more than 1.5 times the national average.
Their politicians also don't "magically" increase their wealth from 0 to 200 million dollars on "public salaries" like the Clintons did for example.

In my book that's already more than enough of fundamental differences between systems in Sweden and the US to understand what I'm trying to say.

Re: salaries: so higher taxes.  The US has more or less the lowest taxes in the western world. Frequently by a lot.  A lot of very rich entities pay no taxes at all.  I believe I mentioned higher taxes, and how it while it would affect comparisons between Swedish citizens and US citizens it wouldn’t affect US citizens vs US citizens.  There are things that would.  Like perks.  Doesn’t make it impossible though.  Or even difficult.  
 

re: race.  

They’re vast majority  wasps.  How would that affect this at all?  What does race have to do with reported income unless there is a racial income disparity in a company?  So another reason to report income instead of to not report it.  They’ve got the same immigration stuff as the rest of the E.U. More or less.  Also doesn’t affect this at all.

 

re: “magical” Clinton’s. 
there was nothing even vaguely magical that I know of.  Lots and lots of scrutiny was paid to that.  More than basically anyone else in The US. it’s extremely well documented. much much more than even a public salary law would account for.  Such a law might have saved him some headache I suppose.
 

The presidency did make him famous.  More than kardashian famous.  He became one of the most highly paid public speakers in the world.  What might be mysterious is how little money they made off it not how much.

 

 Clinton’s aren’t nearly as wealthy as Rusch Limbaugh who is more or less just a public speaker.  Kardashians are more wealthy by another order of magnitude or two but they have makeup lines and stuff. 


So your book is repeating stuff I already said and probably unfounded accusations? I think your book is kinda crap but that doesn’t matter much

 

What does is your reply makes absolutely zero useful counterpoint. Actually supports it a bit.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

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2 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

On the other hand this would make it harder for more qualified or more experienced individuals to negotiate higher salaries - because "if everyone gets paid x amount of money, you should get the same". Whereas when it's not public information, you negotiate that individually and privately, you also don't get "dirty looks" from people who earn less on similar positions because they don't know what you make.

If the offer from the employer doesn't satisfy you - leave the company. This is what I would do.

Don't take what I said as an excuse for Blizzard's behavior, it's reprehensible. But it's not only their fault, California is ran terribly and has ridiculously high taxes and cost of life so that's probably the main issue for both Blizzard and its employees.

A lot of people entering the workforce fail to understand that negotiation is a key part in earning a higher pay. People are disillusioned by the notion that they'll get paid more if they simply work hard, but that's not how it works in the real world. If I were a company, why would I pay you more to do the same work when you are willingly settling for less? People fail to make themselves valuable enough to negotiate, or they make themselves valuable but fail to use it as leverage in their negotiations. Everyone has a fear that if you try to negotiate a wage, you'll be fired and replaced by someone cheaper, but not many companies want to put up with the headaches of hiring, retraining and dealing with severance/unemployment claims when they could simply agree with the raise and say "we expect more out of you" as a result.

 

As for game testers and customer service reps making minimum wage, I don't feel bad for them, as harsh as this might be to say. You agreed to the wage you were offered, this wasn't something that was forced upon you. If you feel the work that is being asked of you isn't worth the wage you are receiving, then work on valuable skills and market yourself to a company that is willing to pay you more for those skills. It's also difficult to demand too much in those positions because they are often the ones that are outsourced to cheaper labor outside of the country. Those positions should only be used to get your foot in the door while you grow skills to transition into a different position. I currently work in an engineering lab, but prior to this, I was answering phones doing technical support. Prior to that, I cleaned bars & daycares for a living. Moral of the story: don't expect more money simply because your neighbor out-negotiated you. Make yourself more valuable and use it to negotiate a better wage/position.

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That’s pretty fair, you should expect min wage for an entry level position. CSR should be paid at least $2/hr higher though because they deal directly with people, which can be quite draining at times.

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3 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

-snip-

No one should expect to make "lots of money" but they SHOULD expect to at least make enough money to live comfortably.

 

$40k/year is hardly enough to live comfortably in most cities.

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3 minutes ago, PocketNerd said:

No one should expect to make "lots of money" but they SHOULD expect to at least make enough money to live comfortably.

 

$40k/year is hardly enough to live comfortably in most cities.

Well to live comfortably in california cities you pretty much have to make 6 figures LUL

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2 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Americans tend not to discuss pay because money always gets in the way of group work. People also don't like to look bad at negotiating deals, so, weirdly, the more you're paid the less you talk about it. If you ever worked retail, you pretty much know instantly what everyone is making. If you're working salary, a lot less discussion about it.

Well most employers also try to forbid it. But they really can’t enforce the rule. 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

There are a couple countries where salaries are public information and posted nationally.  I’ve long thought it was a great idea.  This whole “salary is no one else’s business” thing benefits only the employer and damages everyone else. The only thing it does is permit abuse.

Living in one of those countries with semi-public wage data and it really works, companies cannot lowball wages without getting a lot of public trouble for it. Too bad in Finland right-wing politicians are running the backbone of it to ground because "it hinders the price competitiveness of Finland" as in companies cannot rip their wins from their workers (and everything else unions do in Finland). We don't have completely open wage data (as in you cannot look up what your friend or neighbor gets) but we have completely open taxation data and the unions collect wage data from their members and publish it as averages sorted by public/private-sector and working years.

 

Downside, currently if you're a Finn, unemployed and without higher education, you're in bad place because jobs you could be hired are filled by foreigners who don't know about their rights or average wages and if you're not ready to work for the lowest offered wage (which is way lower than average within unions and usually just barely higher than unemployment benefits). Also if you have managed to join an union, "you're not the person we are looking for" because they would need to honour the union negotiated contracts, pay you well and cannot throw you around like a wet rag.

 

But on the topic, I'm not a single bit surprised by this. After all it is pretty much general problem and this time it's just a gaming company in the headlines. If the company was Amazon, it probably wouldn't even reach news, all those billions in the pockets of Benzos and most of his workers must pee in bottles during shifts because fear of being fired for "unproductivity". And then in gaming industry where the whole concept of worker unionisation is a taboo and the only "union" firstly called lootbox regulation thinking "thinking about restricting artistic freedom" and later waves flag for industry's internal regulation (which has been a joke forever), so what can you expect from a company that has been a throwing bag and milking money maker since the 90's? Good wages and the best working conditions for the grey mas of coders and artists that are less than replaceable? 😂

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So the take away.

 

Blizzard is bad about annual raises (Most companies are)

- Solution you have to either get a promotion or move to another company.

 

Developers are paid much more than testers and CS.

- this is also not uncommon. So the talent needed to be a good developer is much more rare to come by than someone to test or handle customers. Then you have the over abundance of people in those roles. This means that you have an abundance and don't need to offer high pay to entice them. This issue is only compounded by the fact this is in Cali where cost of living is stupid high.

 

Good for them for speaking up and sharing this information. It may or may not actually do anything of worth, but it will allow everyone as a whole to make some important decisions. Working for these companies look great on a resume... so take as a minor form of compensation and use it to go somewhere else. Go to a competitor, start up, etc. So just remember the only way to get a good pay increase is to  A) Get promoted. B) Take a new job.  Annual raises are generally more of a cost of living increase... so sub 5% for a lot of places. Promotions and job moves normally come with a 15% or higher increase. 

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17 minutes ago, MageTank said:

A lot of people entering the workforce fail to understand that negotiation is a key part in earning a higher pay.

 

This is true. But collective action, organization, and unionization, are part of "negotiating" too, and depending on the unevenness of the market (number of emploers vs. number of potential workers) it may be even a prerequisite for any meaningful negotiation. It's just another source of bargaining power.

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Just now, SpaceGhostC2C said:

This is true. But collective action, organization, and unionization, are part of "negotiating" too, and depending on the unevenness of the market (number of emploers vs. number of potential workers) it may be even a prerequisite for any meaningful negotiation. It's just another source of bargaining power.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I have no qualms about people sharing their wages and using it as a form of negotiation. As far as I am concerned, you should do anything in your power to negotiate a higher wage. This includes using your co-workers to your advantage. However, people need to be mindful of the other side of this coin. If you think that you should make more money on the basis that someone else in the same position is earning more, you might find yourself on the receiving end of a reality check. People still need to be mindful that the effort they put in, and the effort someone else might be putting in, can be entirely different despite working the same position. The same goes for skills. Lenny might see Carl making an extra $1-$2 per hour, but not know that Carl can speak another language and yields higher productivity compared to others in his position and used that to his advantage when negotiating his original wage. I wouldn't pay Lenny what Carl is making if it brings no added value to do so, and if Lenny threatened to walk as a result, I'd be contemplating the cost of replacing him and how soon I'd get my ROI in doing so. 

 

It's also important to keep your job role in mind. Just like we've seen with fast food employees asking for $15 an hour, companies will start to think of ways to replace people with cheaper labor. Whether this is through the use of computers/machinery or simply outsourcing internationally, the end result is that a large group of people lose their jobs. Again, this is why I stress adding value to oneself so that they stand out and give the impression that things would get worse without them. People that have the ability to make themselves valuable to companies are often the ones that progress and retain their jobs longer.

 

TL:DR? If you want to share what you make with others and use it to negotiate a better wage, I am all for it, just make sure you continue to develop your skills and make yourself more valuable while doing so.

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On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

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Having worked with many silicon valley companies, there is a common truth that the way to get a raise is to leave a company and come back.  The two common ways have always been to go to a competitor (thus why non-compete clauses started, then got thrown out), and to go to or begin a startup (with the sole purpose of being bought out and hired after getting a similar wage for a few years).

 

Some companies, like Apple, actually do fairly well with retention despite that, thanks to trying to promote from within and also thanks to their stock plan benefits.

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1 hour ago, Teddy07 said:

It is a bit strange. I always thought Blizzard employees earn well

as with all major companies this entirely falls on your skill level and the worth of said skills. Someone doing major game engine work is going to have a skill worth more than someone writing a few scripts to do xyz. Comes down to the abundance of labor as well. Everyone is learning how to make simple scripts in college now, but very few have the ability to understand and improve on something more complex like a game engine.

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2 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

This is true. But collective action, organization, and unionization, are part of "negotiating" too, and depending on the unevenness of the market (number of emploers vs. number of potential workers) it may be even a prerequisite for any meaningful negotiation. It's just another source of bargaining power.

The impression I got was unionization worked so well it was too powerful though in some cases.  I only know the US history so this likely doesn’t apply across borders.  
Railroads had a big issue.  Unions could create this thing named “featherbedding” as its detractors named it where low performing workers were impossible to fire and kept on getting promoted.  When technology changed from coal they had all these firemen (the guys who loaded the engine with coal) who had to be kept on even they were no longer useful.  
 

The Current system leaves workers too weak though.   The GOP has been rabidly anti union (or anyone who isn’t a 1%er really) for a long time.  One of the great mistakes the Union fell for was supporting Regan.  They though he would be union positive because he was a former union leader but instead he crushed them.  It real possible unions no longer have the “ too powerful” problem in the US at all.  I don’t know the specifics.  The GOP is still after them though. 

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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5 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

as with all major companies this entirely falls on your skill level and the worth of said skills. Someone doing major game engine work is going to have a skill worth more than someone writing a few scripts to do xyz. Comes down to the abundance of labor as well. Everyone is learning how to make simple scripts in college now, but very few have the ability to understand and improve on something more complex like a game engine.

But it doesn’t.  That’s the problem.  If it did there wouldn’t be an issue.  It’s not about job skills.  it’s negotiating skills.  Upper management people often actually hire professional negotiators to negotiate compensation.  Something lower rung employees can’t do.  This is the problem with the no reporting thing.  Some will voluntarily report, which can give a vaguely general idea, which is a lot better than nothing, but as long as salaries are secret on a micro level people who are grossly overpaid can hide it, and people who are grossly underpaid get screwed because they don’t know any better.  The system has created a stupendously overpaid executive and a frequently badly underpaid workforce. 

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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