Phone pricing has quadrupled in the last 5 years - let's talk about it!

[PlayStation 2]

5 minutes ago, Vishera said:

With good quality display and good specs? - I don't think so...

They're fairly decent overall. No, it's not gonna buy you super high end shit, but you're also spending $200 on a phone compared to $700+. What happens when you do the same with a laptop? You inevitably get a compromised set of hardware that can still deliver.

By the way, you're really not good at moving goalposts to suit your arguments.

[Intrafinesse]

51 minutes ago, startrek03 said:

Pricing is kinda ridiculous at this point. And the worst thing is, that barely anybody needs the improvents of newer devices... Heck, they even remove features...

Bbbbuuuttt I need a BIGGER SSD so that instead of using 50% of my phones capacity I only use 10%.

And I need by phone to boot faster so I can save 1 second whenever I reboot my phone (every other day?).

 

In all seriousness - the only feature I really would like is a decent optical zoom, say x5.

The picture I took of the pair of juvenile red tail hawks sitting on a roof was rather grainy.

[Vishera]

4 minutes ago, dizmo said:

the Note 4 was from 2014

End of 2014,was still the flagship of Samsung in the first half of 2015.

4 minutes ago, dizmo said:

The Z3+? Was $750

My mistake,my point is that most flagship phones were much cheaper than they are today,in 2015 most were in the $500 price tag.

If you want to look for overpriced phones - they have always existed at any point of time.

I could cite the Galaxy Fold or the XS Max in 2020.

 

$500 flagships were the norm at the time and were easy to find,which you can't today...

[minibois]

6 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Flagships in 2015: LG G5,Sony Xperia Z3+,Samsung Galaxy Note 4,check their MSRP prices and see that i am right...

*something something* burden of proof on the one making the claim.. *something something* 

 

Those phones were released in April 2016, May 2015 and October 2014.

Not to nitpick, but only one actually released in 2015 and two can be considred 2015 flagships, so I am just going to ignore that request to check out the MSRP on the LG G5 and will check out the G4 instead.

 

Note 4 (32GB): 700 USD off contract (762 USD adjusted). Note 10 (256GB): 950 USD. +25%

Xperia Z3 (32GB): 500 USD (543 USD adjusted)

Xperia Z3+ (32GB): 645 USD (701.55 USD adjusted) 

I am not sure what to compare these Sony phones to, but Sony has stuff ranging from 300, to 700 to 1100 USD: https://www.sony.com/electronics/phones/t/smartphones

LG G4 (32GB): 270 USD (293 USD adjusted). LG G8X ThinQ Dual Screen (128GB): 949 USD (I don't think this is comparable though, because of its dual screens, but I'll give you this comparison for the 'worst case' I guess). +223%

 

Sources:

Spoiler

Note 4: https://www.engadget.com/2014-10-15-samsung-galaxy-note-4-review.html

Note 10: https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/galaxy-note10/buy/

Z3(+): https://www.techradar.com/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/sony-xperia-z3-1294961/review

Xperia 5/1 II: https://www.sony.com/electronics/phones/t/smartphones

LG G4: https://www.techradar.com/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/lg-g4-1292304/review

LG G8: https://www.lg.com/us/cell-phones/lg-lmg850qm7xausabk-unlocked-g8x-thinq-dual-screen

23 minutes ago, Vishera said:

check their MSRP prices and see that i am right...

I am not sure what I should have been able to see here.

Even in the 'best case scenario' (LG G4 vs G8 dual screen) it's not a quadrupling of pricing. Plus those devices are much different, you can't compare them as equals from a different time period.

25 minutes ago, Vishera said:

That's no exception,I bought a mid-range phone back than for $150 from LG.

Cool, but you're constantly mentioning high end specs, flagships, etc. so I am not sure how this is relevant.

 

Your thread began with the claim pricing for high end phone (specs) have quadrupled. The only evidence you were able to show was the company OnePlus, who obviously chose to go a different business route. 

Now you're trying to grasp to any other company, price range, etc. to justify.. Well I am not even sure what you're trying to justify here.

 

In short: yes, phones have increased in prices, but not +300%/quadrupling. Yes, some parts (like expandable memory) are gone, repairability is worse, etc.

But is that what this thread is about? You started off with only mentioning prices and specs and now we're making a shift to repairability and such? That's a different story, for which things like prices are not relevant.

[Vishera]

Just now, minibois said:

But is that what this thread is about?

Nope,it's about prices:

56 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Can you buy a decent phone today for $250 with high end specs? -  I don't think so.

 

[minibois]

2 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Nope,it's about prices:

1 hour ago, Vishera said:

Can you buy a decent phone today for $250 with high end specs? -  I don't think so.

Okay and I mentioned earlier how the OnePlus One was the exception, not the norm (and illustrated my point by showing the prices of 2015 and current flagships).

Your only way of proving the OPO was not the exception was by saying this:

37 minutes ago, Vishera said:

That's no exception,I bought a mid-range phone back than for $150 from LG.

Cool, you bought a mid-range phone, but I thought it was about high end specs? Specs you failed to mention in that 'proof the OPO is not the exception'?

We can go in circles all day (well actually we can't, that would get real boring real quick), but we all know your original premise of the thread:

Quote

Phone pricing has quadrupled in the last 5 years - let's talk about it!

can be answered by saying "you're just confusing the business practice of one company for the business practice in the entire market".

[Blademaster91]

9 minutes ago, minibois said:

Your thread began with the claim pricing for high end phone (specs) have quadrupled. The only evidence you were able to show was the company OnePlus, who obviously chose to go a different business route. 

Now you're trying to grasp to any other company, price range, etc. to justify.. Well I am not even sure what you're trying to justify here.

 

In short: yes, phones have increased in prices, but not +300%/quadrupling. Yes, some parts (like expandable memory) are gone, repairability is worse, etc.

But is that what this thread is about? You started off with only mentioning prices and specs and now we're making a shift to repairability and such? That's a different story, for which things like prices are not relevant.

I think the direction OnePlus went is interesting, their marketing is "don't settle" even though they did settle and went for the high margins flagship market, and oneplus customers have to settle paying flagship prices or move to another brand.

Although phones haven't quadrupled, flagships have nearly doubled,and repairability should definitely be a factor if someone is buying a $1,000 phone and wants to keep it instead of spending another $1,000 when the battery wears out.

[Vishera]

Just now, minibois said:

Cool, you bought a mid-range phone, but I thought it was about high end specs?

Pricing in general,yes my first example was high end but it doesn't mean it's only about high end devices.

And yes i exaggerated the quadruple thing,but phones were a lot cheaper back then!

1 minute ago, minibois said:

Specs you failed to mention in that 'proof the OPO is not the exception'?

We can go in circles all day (well actually we can't, that would get real boring real quick)

True

[dizmo]

34 minutes ago, Vishera said:

End of 2014,was still the flagship of Samsung in the first half of 2015.

My mistake,my point is that most flagship phones were much cheaper than they are today,in 2015 most were in the $500 price tag.

If you want to look for overpriced phones - they have always existed at any point of time.

I could cite the Galaxy Fold or the XS Max in 2020.

 

$500 flagships were the norm at the time and were easy to find,which you can't today...

I'm pretty sure every flagship phone I bothered to look up would show the same trend as the Note4 and Z3+.

So no, $500 flagships weren't the norm.

Inflation, added features, etc have all increased the cost, but they're also arguably more useful devices.

22 minutes ago, minibois said:

*something something* burden of proof on the one making the claim.. *something something* 

 

Those phones were released in April 2016, May 2015 and October 2014.

Not to nitpick, but only one actually released in 2015 and two can be considred 2015 flagships, so I am just going to ignore that request to check out the MSRP on the LG G5 and will check out the G4 instead.

 

Note 4 (32GB): 700 USD off contract (762 USD adjusted). Note 10 (256GB): 950 USD. +25%

Xperia Z3 (32GB): 500 USD (543 USD adjusted)

Xperia Z3+ (32GB): 645 USD (701.55 USD adjusted) 

I am not sure what to compare these Sony phones to, but Sony has stuff ranging from 300, to 700 to 1100 USD: https://www.sony.com/electronics/phones/t/smartphones

LG G4 (32GB): 270 USD (293 USD adjusted). LG G8X ThinQ Dual Screen (128GB): 949 USD (I don't think this is comparable though, because of its dual screens, but I'll give you this comparison for the 'worst case' I guess). +223%

 

Sources:

  Reveal hidden contents

Note 4: https://www.engadget.com/2014-10-15-samsung-galaxy-note-4-review.html

Note 10: https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/galaxy-note10/buy/

Z3(+): https://www.techradar.com/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/sony-xperia-z3-1294961/review

Xperia 5/1 II: https://www.sony.com/electronics/phones/t/smartphones

LG G4: https://www.techradar.com/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/lg-g4-1292304/review

LG G8: https://www.lg.com/us/cell-phones/lg-lmg850qm7xausabk-unlocked-g8x-thinq-dual-screen

 

 

The G4 was $599 off contract through carriers.

7 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think the direction OnePlus went is interesting, their marketing is "don't settle" even though they did settle and went for the high margins flagship market, and oneplus customers have to settle paying flagship prices or move to another brand.

Although phones haven't quadrupled, flagships have nearly doubled,and repairability should definitely be a factor if someone is buying a $1,000 phone and wants to keep it instead of spending another $1,000 when the battery wears out.

Their prices are still considerably lower than flagship phones, but they were always going to push up market....what business comes out with a plan to stay mediocre?

That's the entire point of the Nord line. Bring the pricing back down so they can increase the top end.

Most companies offer some form of battery service. So, for a fee, they'll replace the battery for you. Honestly it's not much more than just buying a battery used to be.

[minibois]

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think the direction OnePlus went is interesting, their marketing is "don't settle" even though they did settle and went for the high margins flagship market, and oneplus customers have to settle paying flagship prices or move to another brand.

They went from "Never Settle" to "Settle a little bit" to "Let's just settle, like the rest".

I mean, I must commend them for being able to blend in with the big boys (and it's great people can buy their phones with an invite from another customer), but it's a shame they didn't make another brand or something to take over the low end (oh wait.. Wasn't OPPO supposed to be that???).

8 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Although phones haven't quadrupled, flagships have nearly doubled,and repairability should definitely be a factor if someone is buying a $1,000 phone and wants to keep it instead of spending another $1,000 when the battery wears out.

 I am still wondering what flagships specifically have doubled in price, because it isn't the iPhone, it isn't Samsung (neither Galaxy nor Note) and it doesn't seem to be Sony either.

LG is doing much different stuff, but I suppose their phones have doubled in price.

 

But repairability should be a consideration, something not mentioned often in reviews. But I guess talking about the 8 cameras on the back and three biometric scanners and heartrate monitor is more important than long-term use of phone

6 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Pricing in general,yes my first example was high end but it doesn't mean it's only about high end devices.

And yes i exaggerated the quadruple thing,but phones were a lot cheaper back then!

Well that's a much 'milder' message than what you said before, now the quadrupling was a gross exaggeration  

[danomicar]

I don't think that the price increases are surprising. As technology progresses it should become more and more expensive.

 

From a supply and demand perspective, Apple and Samsung have no problem moving hundreds of millions of units each year. Why not charge as much as possible?

[Orfieus]

phones are also getting bigger and more competition for the parts will probably increase the cost

[EL02]

What i think is that prices have definitely gone up by a fair amount. The iphone x was like +$200 more than the 7 plus, the xiaomi mi 10 pro costs like double the price as opposed to the last year's mi 9 at $500. There's clearly a large demand for phones and companies are taking full advantage of that.

But, yeah, any phone costing $400 or less should be satisfactory enough for 90% of the users.

[Lord Vile]

12 hours ago, Vishera said:

2015 - when a high end phone cost just $250 (and it has OLED too!):

2020 - when a high end phone costs a whole grand.

 

We became peasants,let us build our phones as we build our PCs!

What phone was “high end” in 2015 and cost 250? The S6 edge was £700 for the base model the Nexus 6P was £450 for the base model and that was a “budget” option. The iPhone 6 was £550 at launch for the base model. 

[Roswell]

22 hours ago, Vishera said:

2015 - when a high end phone cost just $250 (and it has OLED too!):

2020 - when a high end phone costs a whole grand.

 

We became peasants,let us build our phones as we build our PCs!

 

That's not really a great example. OnePlus priced their devices at cost and likely lost a whole boatload of money in the process. The conglomerate that owns the brand wanted to establish the OnePlus name and that's exactly what happened. Not to mention that the OnePlus X was using 2 year old chips at the time... It wasn't exactly a flagship.

 

If you look at actual flagships from 2015, the prices are way higher.

[Zodiark1593]

On 8/3/2020 at 2:07 PM, Mad153 said:

fairphone is sort of there, in a way...

Kind of disappointing the Fairphone uses such a low end SoC. For a phone designed to be kept for an extended time, I’d think something high end (SD8xx) would be a prerequisite so as to obtain reasonable performance years down the road. 

[XG BC]

Why are you guys just looking at "mainstream" brands like samsung, apple and motorola. the xiaomi mi 10 can be had for like 530€ from where i am and thats from a german seller. you are just looking in the wrong place.

 

XG BC

[EL02]

4 hours ago, XG BC said:

Why are you guys just looking at "mainstream" brands like samsung, apple and motorola. the xiaomi mi 10 can be had for like 530€ from where i am and thats from a german seller. you are just looking in the wrong place.

 

XG BC

Where im from xiaomi is more mainstream than motorola. This year xiaomi really fucked up the prices, especially in the higher end phones. I know people who at €530($625) would save a little more to get smth like an iphone 11.

[maartendc]

It seems like smartphones are just being sold according to the: "how much are people willing to pay for it" adage. Not so much "how much does it cost to make" or "how much makes sense".

 

I think if the first iPhone launched at $1000, adjusted for inflation lets say, smartphones would have never taken off. People would have ridiculed it.

 

But just like a frog being put into cold water and turning on the boil, people have become desensitized to the higher prices. Now $1000 phone is "normal" and a $500 is "cheap" or "mid-range".

 

Same thing is happening with Nvidia GPU's. Top end used to be $600. Now a 2080Ti is $1200 and a mid-range card is $500. The RTX 3080Ti will probably be $1500.

 

Sad really. I choose not to buy into it. I can spend my hard-earned money on other things.

[Commodus]

4 hours ago, maartendc said:

It seems like smartphones are just being sold according to the: "how much are people willing to pay for it" adage. Not so much "how much does it cost to make" or "how much makes sense".

 

I think if the first iPhone launched at $1000, adjusted for inflation lets say, smartphones would have never taken off. People would have ridiculed it.

 

But just like a frog being put into cold water and turning on the boil, people have become desensitized to the higher prices. Now $1000 phone is "normal" and a $500 is "cheap" or "mid-range".

 

Same thing is happening with Nvidia GPU's. Top end used to be $600. Now a 2080Ti is $1200 and a mid-range card is $500. The RTX 3080Ti will probably be $1500.

 

Sad really. I choose not to buy into it. I can spend my hard-earned money on other things.

While I agree that we should keep an eye out for arbitrary pricing, we do have to be careful about insisting that phones (or any devices, really) be sold at thin profit margins.

 

People get angry at Apple for selling iPhones at a 35-40 percent profit margin, but they simultaneously wonder why LG and Sony regularly bleed cash from their mobile divisions, why HTC is a shadow of its former self, why Samsung's mobile profits are so volatile (Samsung has high-profit phones, but also steep discounts). They forget that Apple's margins are what have kept it above water while its rivals commit hara kiri to get half a point of market share.

 

Having said all that: the mid-range is getting much, much better. There are many people who really don't need to drop more than $350-400 to get a phone that does everything they need, and even a phone like the LG Velvet is pretty posh at $600. You have to be an enthusiast or a spare-no-expense type to justify the higher-end hardware.

[AlTech]

I'm not gonna lie, I don't expect most people to continue buying high end phones.

 

Especially during and after 2020.

 

I expect that Midrange will become the new normal and high end will sell fewer units at high prices.

 

In Europe we already have a very great midrange and budget segment. It's really just the US that insists on buying phones they can't afford.

[AlTech]

I will agree that Phone pricing is definitely getting out of hand.

 

Flagships shouldn't be selling for 1.2K + unless they're here to also replace desktops and laptops.

[XG BC]

11 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

I'm not gonna lie, I don't expect most people to continue buying high end phones.

 

Especially during and after 2020.

 

I expect that Midrange will become the new normal and high end will sell fewer units at high prices.

In Europe we already have a very great midrange and budget segment. It's really just the US that insists on buying phones they can't afford.

I 100% agree with you i dont even know why you need such an expensive phone when most users only use them for social media and webbrowsing. you aren't going to need a flagship processor for that neither are you going to need a 4k display. I have a lower midrange phone myself with the snapdragon 660. My goal when buying a phone is to get the most performance with as little money as possible i dont want to spend like 1000$ on a phone thats going to be obsolete a few years later anyway.

 

19 hours ago, EL02 said:

Where im from xiaomi is more mainstream than motorola. This year xiaomi really fucked up the prices, especially in the higher end phones. I know people who at €530($625) would save a little more to get smth like an iphone 11.

intresting in germany or atleast the part of where i live in these phones are really unknown and everyone mostly has either samsung, iphone huawei (pre ban) or honor.

the "cheap" options dont look that compelling either they often have plastic backs and are wayyy to expensive for what you get. thats why i would never buy a phone from a store. I bougt a redmi note 7 global last year ( was upgrading from an iphone 4s) and it felt great and not cheap atall

 

XG BC

[maartendc]

12 hours ago, Commodus said:

While I agree that we should keep an eye out for arbitrary pricing, we do have to be careful about insisting that phones (or any devices, really) be sold at thin profit margins.

 

People get angry at Apple for selling iPhones at a 35-40 percent profit margin, but they simultaneously wonder why LG and Sony regularly bleed cash from their mobile divisions, why HTC is a shadow of its former self, why Samsung's mobile profits are so volatile (Samsung has high-profit phones, but also steep discounts). They forget that Apple's margins are what have kept it above water while its rivals commit hara kiri to get half a point of market share.

 

Having said all that: the mid-range is getting much, much better. There are many people who really don't need to drop more than $350-400 to get a phone that does everything they need, and even a phone like the LG Velvet is pretty posh at $600. You have to be an enthusiast or a spare-no-expense type to justify the higher-end hardware.

I don't know why a $750-1000 phone would have a thin profit margin? Perhaps they are filling it with useless things like wireless charging, high refresh rate screens and 4 lenses, that just are not needed for 95% of people. That is their own fault in my opinion, for filling the phones with junk, in a desperate attempt to differentiate themselves from the crowd.

 

Personally, I am very frustrated as a consumer who just wants a good phone with a good CPU (for future proofness, not for gaming), good screen, good battery life, good slim design, and a reasonable amount of software updates. And I want to pay like $500. Sure I can shop in the mid-range phones, but most of those phones have some sort of compromise in a key area: bad camera, bad screen, bad SOC, bad software support, or all of the above. Pixel 4a is actually the closest thing to what I want currently, too bad about the very mediocre chip in it. But I will probably end up getting it.

 

Honestly, the thing that manufacturers should do to stand out from the crowd isn't that hard. It is making a Pixel 4A, with a slightly better SOC.

12 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

I'm not gonna lie, I don't expect most people to continue buying high end phones.

 

Especially during and after 2020.

 

I expect that Midrange will become the new normal and high end will sell fewer units at high prices.

 

In Europe we already have a very great midrange and budget segment. It's really just the US that insists on buying phones they can't afford.

This is probably true. More and more people are fed up with the high phone prices, and want to find something more reasonable.

 

This is why the iPhone SE and Pixel 4a (and Oneplus Nord maybe) will sell well. They are just good products, for a reasonable price.

[Vishera]

On 8/11/2020 at 7:46 AM, maartendc said:

I don't know why a $750-1000 phone would have a thin profit margin?

I can make a phone if i want,a whole grand for just a phone is a huge profit margin.

Motherboard + most components = $50 (Should cost less),NAND flash = $50 (manufacturers tend to spend too much here),Snapdragon 865 SOC = ~$200 (Should cost less),Camera sensor = ~$30, (x4 = ~$120),OLED screen + capacitive touch = $100 (Should cost less),chassis: $50 at most.

Total amount: $590,

Profit margin of $410 per unit,which is more than 40%.

I exaggerated the prices,the prices listed are higher then what the manufacturers pay.