WARNING: RANT!! why can't computers ever just be reliable

[Lord Vile]

1 minute ago, Ashley said:

did you read through my post? these issues are also present in linux. 

Linux is a different beast altogether. Also confised as to the Z370 board and a 8100 CPU... 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 minute ago, Lord Vile said:

Linux is a different beast altogether. Also confised as to the Z370 board and a 8100 CPU... 

i already addressed that. the board came from a friend for a super good price and that i3 was a good deal so... 

[Vishera]

37 minutes ago, Ashley said:

yeah pre built gaming pc's are dumb like that, because they suffer from the same problem. parts from different vendors that aren't perfectly tuned to work with eachother. 

 

To tell you the truth,i have been building PCs for a decade,and all the systems i have ever built were extremely reliable.

I have stayed away from the used market for many reasons,one of them is that a lot of people sell defective hardware on the that market and there is the warranty problem too.

And $20 for a motherboard is an interesting price,almost suspicious...

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

Just now, Vishera said:

A $20 for a motherboard is an interesting price,almost suspicious...

it came from a friend, who i trust. also it worked fine for like 6 or 7 months before it started doing weird stuff. 

[Lord Vile]

Just now, Ashley said:

i already addressed that. the board came from a friend for a super good price and that i3 was a good deal so... 

Unless it was free an 8100 isn't a good deal...

 

It's just trouble shooting at this point, could be anything from a dodgy PCIE port or power connector to clashing drivers. 

[Vishera]

Just now, Ashley said:

it came from a friend, who i trust. also it worked fine for like 6 or 7 months before it started doing weird stuff. 

Is your GPU used too?

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 minute ago, Lord Vile said:

It's just trouble shooting at this point, could be anything from a dodgy PCIE port or power connector to clashing drivers. 

it's troubleshooting which i used to enjoy but i'm at a point now where it's just such a chore. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

Just now, Vishera said:

Is your GPU used too?

yup, but i have a known good spare and it's glitchy too, though not as much

[Zodiark1593]

3 minutes ago, Ashley said:

it came from a friend, who i trust. also it worked fine for like 6 or 7 months before it started doing weird stuff. 

Next to the power supply, motherboards are a frequent failed component that can cause a very wide variety of issues, ranging from minor issues that may be unrecognizable to widespread instability. Linus had nearly suffered data loss from Wonnuk server a few years ago due to a likely failed motherboard corrupting his LSI RAID card. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

29 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Next to the power supply, motherboards are a frequent failed component that can cause a very wide variety of issues, ranging from minor issues that may be unrecognizable to widespread instability. Linus had nearly suffered data loss from Wonnuk server a few years ago due to a likely failed motherboard corrupting his LSI RAID card. 

interesting. i don't wanna invest money into this machine though if it's unclear if it's the problem. a new board for it that's at least somewhat decent is like at least €120... if that doesn't fix it i might need a gpu which would cost like €200 and even then there might still be a fault somewhere else, so... add some more money and you're getting dangerously close to used 2014 or 2015 macbook pro territory which tbh would be a better option for me. 

[Zodiark1593]

6 hours ago, Ashley said:

i'm seriously getting frustrated now. if i build a computer no matter what i get issues. my current pc (i3 8100, Z370-P, 16GB Ram and a few ssd's), is having super weird problems and i'm just sick of this custom pc space at this point. 

 

basically, i was getting some graphical glitching which went away and recenty came back, and it won't stay in sleep reliably. if i do that it'll turn on in the middle of the night. now, that doesn't sound like a big deal. i'm not expecting a dead gpu, since i can play the witcher 3 for hours with no crashing, lines on the screen or weird color glitching. however, it's recently developed a new fault. if i turn it on, there is a chance it'll beep at me that i don't have displays connected, even when i do have displays connected and it won't boot. i then need to unplug and plug displays back in until it decides it wants to work. also, the main screen does not turn on if i boot the machine. i have to turn it off from standby and turn it back on before it decides it's connected. 

 

i'm so sick of it. if this was an 8 or 10 year old computer sure, i'd expect issues. but this is a modern machine still!!! i'm just so done with this whole thing. i need a reliable computer, i have things to do. a machine that randomly decides it doesn't want to work anymore is unacceptable for me. 

 

i'm jsut so sick of it. why msut it be like this? i'm not even talking these issues specifically now, also Windows just deciding to break my gpu driver and i have to spend an hour to get it back to normal is just... why? why do we as customers accept this? 

 

i'm just at the point where i don't trust pc's anymore. at all. even if i build them myself and i know i didn't make a mistake, i just cannot rely on them. 

 

my only option right now is to unplug my pc entirely and plug my macbook pro into my setup. i don't want to do that, as my macbook pro is 8 years old and certainly not the fastest computer in the world anymore. however, say what you want about macbooks, but i got this one used 2 years ago. it's been in my backpack every day for 1.5 years to school, where it ran heavy compute tasks like VM's which would let it sit at 100% utilization for hours at a time. it's been my main computer for a while before when the pc i had at the time broke, so it was at school all day running heavy tasks and then plugged into my main setup at home and used heavily again. it's been through hell, dropped various times, sat in a damp backpack after a heavy rainstorm more than once, used on trains with loads of vibration while running at 90+ degrees if i had to finish schoolwork on my way home.... and it's still working flawlessly. it's only stopped working once which was my mistake, i broke the drive cable when swapping drives into it. apart form that which was a €10 and 15 minute fix, it's never let me down once. 

 

how do pc customers still accept that machines that are 3 or 4 years old get unstable, need OS reinstalls, whatever else, when the competition exists? how? 

 

sorry for my rant, i'm jsut annoyed that i put a bunch of money into a computer that's just a doorstop at this point. i cannot rely on it therefore it's useless. i'm currently living in a temporary situation and i don't have easy access to spare parts, because at my parents house i've started with packing up all my things. 

 

i'm just so lucky to own some apple products, which are the only thing that are ever reliable for me for some weird reason. i don't know if it's a curse or what, but i'm just done.

 

i will keep my pc and i will try to diagnose it but i'm just sick and tired of needing to practically babysit and cuddle my computer all the time, putting hours every month into fixing problems and bugs, when i have a macbook pro that has never let me down before and i can know for a fact when i press the power button that it will start up. i no longer have that confidence in my pc. 

 

so, the current pc i have will likely be my last. until it dies completely i will continue to play games on it, but i'm gonna just start saving up and buy a console when it inevitebly dies.

Troubleshooting complex systems requires a pretty methodical approach. PCs are no exception, and given their flexibility, are often subject to a lot more potential failure points, maintenance requirements and security issues consoles wouldn’t experience. Naturally, The flexibility of DIY systems means experiences and stability can vary quite dramatically as well.  
 

PC gaming has proven immensely flexible for myself, and the role consolidation is quite valuable as I game little enough to justify buying a dedicated system.
 

Though PCs are far from trouble free for me. The biggest pain point for me is definitely in the maintenance. Example, due to lack of home internet, my OS and other software is out of date by several years, and so would probably be better to do a clean install of everything at this point. Though this isn’t super feasible because of said lack of internet, let alone keeping things up to date going forward. I’m certainly not keen on hauling my desktop back and forth every month or so for updates, whether the OS, or when Steam wants to be a bastard and lock out a game (that would otherwise function just fine single-player) until it gets it’s multi-GB update. *grumbles*
 

To an extent, it does seem like you detest dealing with PCs unless absolutely necessary. Not everyone likes troubleshooting things at inconvenient times, especially if that’s what they’re doing for work already. The draw of a console that (mostly) just works is definitely there. Entirely up to you if you want to move to consoles.

 

If you rely on your PC for work, I probably would actually recommend going the prebuilt route with a system and warranty suitable for business purposes. For this particular use case (where downtime costs money), I would argue that even hobbyists should strongly consider (not saying you should or not, but weigh the pros and cons for their particular use) swallowing their pride and buy a prebuilt business PC. 
 

There’s no right or wrong solutions here so long as you end up with what you want/need in the end. Part of tech support is evaluating a user’s needs and wants, and helping to decide the best solutions. Apply this to yourself as well. 
 

Note: I consider Macs to also fall under the heading of PC (personal computer), and for that matter, mobile devices as well. I don’t really discriminate here.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

@Zodiark1593 i don't rely on my computer for work but i do still need to do important things on it. 

 

custom pc's are fun, but there is a tipping point when it goes from being fun to being an inconvenience... 

[cooltech6597]

5 hours ago, Ashley said:

correct. but they were in a known good state. because they worked fine. 

ever tried clearing cmos? 

[LloydLynx]

Look at getting a retired Optiplex. My friend's custom built PC has random issues, but my Optiplex 9020 has run flawlessly since the day I got it. The 290w PSU has given me no issues with an RX 560 and multiple drives. Idk what the Windows experience is since I haven't driven it for a few years, but Fedora has been amazing.

[Kilrah]

Exactly, if you "need a pc for work" and want minimal risk of trouble get a certified refurbished old business machine. These things are engineered to be as reliable as possible since they're pretty much always supplied with full maintenance contracts and on site quick repair/replacement, so any fault is a high cost to the manufacturer and they obviously want to avoid that.

 

Drawback is you're not going to make a gaming machine out of one. 

 

Other than that, jsut avoid the cheapest bargain bin stuff if you're building yourself. 

[Zodiark1593]

7 hours ago, Ashley said:

@Zodiark1593 i don't rely on my computer for work but i do still need to do important things on it. 

 

custom pc's are fun, but there is a tipping point when it goes from being fun to being an inconvenience... 

I kind of feel similarly at times, probably owing to my job. 
 

The devices I build at work often requires some pretty painstaking troubleshooting to sort out issues. Lots of wiring, boards, water tubes, sensors  and a water cooler. Swapping electronic components requires extensive disassembly to access. Boards also don’t get tested before assembly, which has bit me royally in a double failure (replaced a bad board with another that also wound up being bad, and cost literal days in trying other components/sensors before trying another said board). And just two days ago, a water valve separated into two pieces while tracking down a leak. Another recent example was that someone stuck the USB cable for the digitizer into the USB3 header backwards, causing a no-boot. Those things are keyed, so it had to have been some substantial force involved. And theres some fragile wire harness stuck in the most inconvenient spot that causes some random assortment of problems should it break   (Would post a pic, but NDAs and all). 
 

Blegh, kind of tiring to put out proverbial fires on a regular basis that I’d rather not have to do so at home too. So it’s definitely understandable that there are days you just don’t want to deal with it. 

[Anarchyz11]

I mean, you went secondhand on all your parts and are frustrated you have problems.  That's a risk you signed up for and doesn't reflect the PC space as a whole.  While those parts may have been working at the time, you don't know for sure exactly what they've been through.  Voltages could have been cranked to get an overclock before selling.  Maybe someone got thermal paste on the processor bottom and didn't remove it safely.  There's a host of things.

 

If reliability was your number one factor you should be buying new and getting a long warranty. 

[Vishera]

14 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

issues consoles wouldn’t experience.

If people send their console to the manufacturer when they have a problem,it doesn't mean that consoles don't have those problems,

Especially if you go full DIY on your console (Yes,You can!)

 

I had a Playstation 3 with bad solder joints on the GPU,i returned it to the store only to get a "refurbished" console that was just baked in the oven by the store's staff (dead CPU),

I got that one replaced with a new one,which i carelessly killed the GPU while tinkering with it (oopsie!),then i bought a new one but that one now has a dead capacitor on the power rails of the CPU,i am going to replace that one when i feel like it 

 

My current one is heavily modified,Sony will be horrified if they saw what i have done to it,it's a really cool and rare unit (A Playstation with 4 USB ports,SD card slot,Full PS2 backwards compatibility and much more that you can't find in newer models)

With the mods i did to it i can control the fan speed (I can do fan curves!),i can use it as a server,boot Linux,backup all saved games regardless if Sony locked them from being backed up or not,

I also have a 1TB drive in there 

The only thing left to do is to delid the CPU (Yep,a console with an IHS)

[Zodiark1593]

2 hours ago, Vishera said:

If people send their console to the manufacturer when they have a problem,it doesn't mean that consoles don't have those problems,

Especially if you go full DIY on your console (Yes,You can!)

 

I had a Playstation 3 with bad solder joints on the GPU,i returned it to the store only to get a "refurbished" console that was just baked in the oven by the store's staff (dead CPU),

I got that one replaced with a new one,which i carelessly killed the GPU while tinkering with it (oopsie!),then i bought a new one but that one now has a dead capacitor on the power rails of the CPU,i am going to replace that one when i feel like it 

 

My current one is heavily modified,Sony will be horrified if they saw what i have done to it,it's a really cool and rare unit (A Playstation with 4 USB ports,SD card slot,Full PS2 backwards compatibility and much more that you can't find in newer models)

With the mods i did to it i can control the fan speed (I can do fan curves!),i can use it as a server,boot Linux,backup all saved games regardless if Sony locked them from being backed up or not,

I also have a 1TB drive in there 

The only thing left to do is to delid the CPU (Yep,a console with an IHS)

*is kicking myself for not adding “normally” in there*

[Letgomyleghoe]

On 7/19/2020 at 6:47 AM, Ashley said:

how do pc customers still accept that machines that are 3 or 4 years old get unstable, need OS reinstalls, whatever else, when the competition exists? how? 

I mean this is starting to seem like a fucking Mac add, but Apple is inferior for the price, I would rather spend 3,000 on a top of the line pc than 3,000 on a shitty Mac (you doubt be getting near the same performance level.) MacOS come at a premium that I’m not willing to pay, they also host their own plethora of issues, ie. display cables breaking burnt holes in motherboards, fans that don’t actually do anything. Pick your poison, and pray to god your Mac doesn’t stop working because we all know Genius Bar ain’t the smartest.

[Lord Vile]

31 minutes ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

I mean this is starting to seem like a fucking Mac add, but Apple is inferior for the price, I would rather spend 3,000 on a top of the line pc than 3,000 on a shitty Mac (you doubt be getting near the same performance level.) MacOS come at a premium that I’m not willing to pay, they also host their own plethora of issues, ie. display cables breaking burnt holes in motherboards, fans that don’t actually do anything. Pick your poison, and pray to god your Mac doesn’t stop working because we all know Genius Bar ain’t the smartest.

To me MacOS is worth it and price wise they're about par with windows options plus a couple of hundred for the OS. MacBooks are a lot nicer to use than windows machines too. 

[DavidKalinowski]

31 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

To me MacOS is worth it and price wise they're about par with windows options plus a couple of hundred for the OS. MacBooks are a lot nicer to use than windows machines too. 

The part about macbooks being nicer to user is completely subjective. I can't stand working with MacOS personally.. the new lowest price mac book pro is $1,299USD that gets you

• 1.4GHz quad-core 8th-generation Intel Core i5 processor
• Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz
• Intel Iris Plus Graphics 645
• 8GB 2133MHz LPDDR3 memory
• 256GB SSD storage¹
• 13-inch Retina display with True Tone

for $100USD more from MSI you can get a windows laptop with this hardware

• 10th Generation Intel Core i7 1.1 GHz 6 Core - 12 Thread Processor (i7-10710U | Turbo to 4.7 GHz) with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 Max-Q w/ 4GB GDDR5
• HIDevolution upgrades the 15.6” FHD IPS-Level, Anti-Glare Wide View Angle, Thin Bezel, 100% sRGB Display Professional Laptop by adding Gelid GC Extreme on CPU and GPU for improved performance and optimal system temperature
• 512GB M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 NVMe SSD--ensures that you experience the fastest boot up & load times
• 16GB (2 x 8GB) of fast DDR4 2666MHz memory--run memory hungry applications and multitask with ease

 

so yea, I would rather spend $100 more and have newer hardware, with more capability, and future proofing.

 

as to the OP, your dealing with a hardware issue. if the same things are happining in both windows and linux after reformats and reinstalls, its hardware. the GPU, Mobo, or PSU are the most likely causes. I've had hardware just stop working for no reason. (most recently a WD Blue SSD. just a 2 months out of warranty. I've always had good luck with WD my old WD drives went years out side of warranty with no issues. crap happens.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 hour ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

I mean this is starting to seem like a fucking Mac add, but Apple is inferior for the price, I would rather spend 3,000 on a top of the line pc than 3,000 on a shitty Mac (you doubt be getting near the same performance level.) MacOS come at a premium that I’m not willing to pay, they also host their own plethora of issues, ie. display cables breaking burnt holes in motherboards, fans that don’t actually do anything. Pick your poison, and pray to god your Mac doesn’t stop working because we all know Genius Bar ain’t the smartest.

the thing is models that are affected by flaws are well known, so you can stay away from them. i only buy second hand Mac's so if a model has flaws they are well known by the time i'm looking for a Mac. 

 

2 minutes ago, DavidKalinowski said:

The part about macbooks being nicer to user is completely subjective. I can't stand working with MacOS personally.. the new lowest price mac book pro is $1,299USD that gets you

<snip>
for $100USD more from MSI you can get a windows laptop with this hardware

<snip>

so yea, I would rather spend $100 more and have newer hardware, with more capability, and future proofing.

i converted that price to euro, and for that i can get a 2015 MacBook Pro 15", the last good models with actual ports and no butterfly. 

the one's i've seen are in perfect condition, 16gb ram and 512gb storage models. on par with that MSI. 

 

now yes, they have quadcores instead of 6 core, and the gpu's are a lot weaker. however the displays are worlds better than any msi gaming laptop, they are most certainly thinner and the battery likely lasts longer, and macOS has a value to a lot of people. 

[Lord Vile]

14 minutes ago, DavidKalinowski said:

The part about macbooks being nicer to user is completely subjective. I can't stand working with MacOS personally.. the new lowest price mac book pro is $1,299USD that gets you

• 1.4GHz quad-core 8th-generation Intel Core i5 processor
• Turbo Boost up to 3.9GHz
• Intel Iris Plus Graphics 645
• 8GB 2133MHz LPDDR3 memory
• 256GB SSD storage¹
• 13-inch Retina display with True Tone

for $100USD more from MSI you can get a windows laptop with this hardware

• 10th Generation Intel Core i7 1.1 GHz 6 Core - 12 Thread Processor (i7-10710U | Turbo to 4.7 GHz) with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 Max-Q w/ 4GB GDDR5
• HIDevolution upgrades the 15.6” FHD IPS-Level, Anti-Glare Wide View Angle, Thin Bezel, 100% sRGB Display Professional Laptop by adding Gelid GC Extreme on CPU and GPU for improved performance and optimal system temperature
• 512GB M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 NVMe SSD--ensures that you experience the fastest boot up & load times
• 16GB (2 x 8GB) of fast DDR4 2666MHz memory--run memory hungry applications and multitask with ease

 

so yea, I would rather spend $100 more and have newer hardware, with more capability, and future proofing.

 

as to the OP, your dealing with a hardware issue. if the same things are happining in both windows and linux after reformats and reinstalls, its hardware. the GPU, Mobo, or PSU are the most likely causes. I've had hardware just stop working for no reason. (most recently a WD Blue SSD. just a 2 months out of warranty. I've always had good luck with WD my old WD drives went years out side of warranty with no issues. crap happens.

But what's the battery life like? What's the screen like? What's the keyboard like? What's the trackpad like? 

 

This is the issue with people on here, specs aren't the be all and end all. Plus i would like to see the result of the Macbook running final cut vs that running adobe and see which one renders quicker. 

[DavidKalinowski]

6 minutes ago, Ashley said:

the thing is models that are affected by flaws are well known, so you can stay away from them. i only buy second hand Mac's so if a model has flaws they are well known by the time i'm looking for a Mac. 

 

i converted that price to euro, and for that i can get a 2015 MacBook Pro 15", the last good models with actual ports and no butterfly. 

the one's i've seen are in perfect condition, 16gb ram and 512gb storage models. on par with that MSI. 

 

now yes, they have quadcores instead of 6 core, and the gpu's are a lot weaker. however the displays are worlds better than any msi gaming laptop, they are most certainly thinner and the battery likely lasts longer, and macOS has a value to a lot of people. 

To each their own, at the price I'm buying new either way lol.

I'm also a cheap-scate my last desktop build held up for about 13 years (it actually still works. I just got a deal from my work, we where replacing our old towers and selling them off at 25$ i5-3xxx with 16GB of RAM. so I upgraded lol) So i would not spend that much on any laptop no matter what.